Author Topic: Archived Posts - Ranger Kits  (Read 38401 times)

Offline Andyr

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Re: Justifier Kit
« Reply #50 on: May 17, 2004, 11:16:11 AM »
Ok, this is what I have (almost) finished making:

Quote
JUSTIFIER: Some expeditions are so demanding and some foes so dangerous that they require the attention of a highly trained specialist whose combat skills far exceed those of the typical ranger. Enter the Justifier, a master tactician whose military instincts, fighting versatility, and steely nerves places him in the first rank of elite warriors.

For a determined Justifier, no job is too difficult, no enemy too formidable. Their proficiency with weapons gives them an edge in combat, though the smaller time devoted to magical training leaves them slightly lacking in that department.

They must be human and of Lawful Good alignmment.

Advantages:

-  +10% bonus to hide in shadows and move silently skills
-  +1 to speed factor and thac0 per 10 levels

Disadvantages:

-  No access to Charm Animal ability
-  Limited access to spells. May only cast the following:
Cure Light Wounds and Armour of Faith once each per day from level 8
Luck and Remove Fear each once per day from level 10
Draw Upon Holy Might once per day from level 12

Is this ok with you guys? :)
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Offline icelus

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Re: Justifier Kit
« Reply #51 on: May 17, 2004, 11:16:59 AM »
Looks good.  :)
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Offline Andyr

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Re: Justifier Kit
« Reply #52 on: May 17, 2004, 01:08:06 PM »
Ok, I've coded this. I'll wait til the Feralan is done, and get some more people to test it, before I send it off though. :)

One thing: I have disabled spell casting, though not removed the spell slots themselves. So, you can still memorise spells, just never cast them.

Will see if I can get around this with excessive use of spell slot removal spells on levelling. :)

So... final ideas in Feralan thread plz kk??/
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Offline rreinier

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Re: Justifier Kit
« Reply #53 on: May 17, 2004, 03:46:24 PM »
Can't you just use AP_xxxxx everytime he gains a spell slot?

Offline Andyr

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Re: Justifier Kit
« Reply #54 on: May 17, 2004, 05:37:32 PM »
That's the plan. :)
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Re: Kits that never made it...
« Reply #55 on: May 18, 2004, 05:37:17 PM »
I had thought that kits weren't being implemented.  i mean, i wouldn't use them, though maybe others would.  it seems slightly out of the scope of the mod, imo...

Offline NiGHTMARE

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Re: Kits that never made it...
« Reply #56 on: May 18, 2004, 05:49:55 PM »
The goal of the mod is to restore content that was originally planned for the game but was scrapped for whatever reason.  I'm afraid I fail to see how restoring kits that were planned for the game falls out of this remit?
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Offline jester

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Re: Kits that never made it...
« Reply #57 on: May 18, 2004, 05:55:48 PM »
Minsc personality is a kit in itself. :) I like the idea of fleshing out characters with unchoosable kits, but the Feralan and the Justifier just don't strike me as interesting enough. Most of the Feralan benefits are very nice in human interaction and are a complete waste in a CRPG. :(
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Re: Kits that never made it...
« Reply #58 on: May 18, 2004, 08:01:44 PM »
well, as I see it, the designers chose not to include these kits in place of the current kits, and there was a reason for that, be it to give all classes the same number of kits, balancing, or whatever other reason.  of course, it can be debated that many of the projects in the mod are similar to this rather than lack of time or resources, but I always saw the mod more of a plot filler than technical aspects such as kits.  it seems like something more for a kit mod or a redesigning of gameplay.  it would unbalance the classes, i think, if the ranger had more choices for kits than the others, unless the mod gives the option of replacing current kits with these new ones, which would then go against the mod ideal of adding and not changing/replacing actual game content...

Offline Kish

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Re: Kits that never made it...
« Reply #59 on: May 18, 2004, 08:46:13 PM »
it would unbalance the classes, i think, if the ranger had more choices for kits than the others,
How so?  The PC can still only have one.
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Offline icelus

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Re: Feralan Kit
« Reply #60 on: May 21, 2004, 09:28:42 PM »
This is a very rough write-up of what has been suggested so far:

Quote
FERALAN: What happens to children who wander in the wilderness and are never recovered? Or worse, those who are abandoned there? Many succumb to the dangers of the wild, but a fortunate few are taken in by animals, raised as a part of a lion`s brood, or a wolf`s litter. Cut off from civilization, they gradually take on the characteristics of the creatures who adopted them, forming some kind of unity with the spirit of the wild. In the process they become feralans, beings who combine the savagery of beasts with the intellect of man.

Advantages:

- 10% bonus to Hide in Shadows and Move Silently skills.
- May go into a Barbarian Rage once per day per 10 levels.
- +1 to STR and CON
- Moves at 1 (2?) point faster than normal
- May cast Call of the Wild once per day

Disadvantages:

- May only place proficiency points in weapons a Shapeshifter can use.
- May not wear armour heavier than Studded Leather.
- Charisma cap is -2 compared to a standard member of the race.
- Limited spellcasting (or none at all?)
- Can only access Healing, Animal, Combat spheres


Call of the Wild
Summons a creature for 3 rounds + 1/level, with thac0, damage and hit points increasing with level, usable once per day per five levels

Maybe then summoning a dog at lower levels, then a wolf, a winter wolf then a dire wolf? At high levels we could make a tougher critter called a Pack Leader or something.
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Offline icelus

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Re: Feralan Kit
« Reply #61 on: May 21, 2004, 09:35:02 PM »
I'm still not sure about spellcasting... Cam pointed out that +1 to STR and CON is a rather large advantage, so perhaps spellcasting should be disabled completely to balance it out a bit.

Have we moved, however, too close to the Barbarian? 
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Offline icelus

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Re: Feralan Kit
« Reply #62 on: May 21, 2004, 10:01:23 PM »
Here's another take:

Quote
FERALAN: What happens to children who wander in the wilderness and are never recovered? Or worse, those who are abandoned there? Many succumb to the dangers of the wild, but a fortunate few are taken in by animals, raised as a part of a lion`s brood, or a wolf`s litter. Cut off from civilization, they gradually take on the characteristics of the creatures who adopted them, forming some kind of unity with the spirit of the wild. In the process they become feralans, beings who combine the savagery of beasts with the intellect of man.

Advantages:

- 10% bonus to Hide in Shadows and Move Silently skills.
- May go into a Feral Rage once per day per 10 levels.
- Innate ability Non-Detection once per day per 8 levels
- Moves at 1 (2?) point faster than normal
- May cast Call of the Wild once per day

Disadvantages:

- May only place proficiency points in weapons a Shapeshifter can use.
- May not wear armour heavier than Studded Leather.
- Charisma cap is -2 compared to a standard member of the race.
- Limited spellcasting (or none at all?)
- Can only access Healing, Animal, Combat spheres


Call of the Wild
Summons a creature for 3 rounds + 1/level, with thac0, damage and hit points increasing with level, usable once per day per five levels

Maybe then summoning a dog at lower levels, then a wolf, a winter wolf then a dire wolf? At high levels we could make a tougher critter called a Pack Leader or something.
<Moongaze> Luckily BWL has a very understanding and friendly admin.

Offline Andyr

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Re: Feralan Kit
« Reply #63 on: May 22, 2004, 07:01:28 PM »
A slightly different take here... May code this up as a starting point? I'm sure I can find someone to play with it for feedback. :) Any thoughts? It's sort of stripped down to shorten the list of advantages and disadvantages, but trying to keep true to the concept.

BTW what are Shapeshifter restrictions?

Quote
FERALAN: What happens to children who wander in the wilderness and are never recovered? Or worse, those who are abandoned there? Many succumb to the dangers of the wild, but a fortunate few are taken in by animals, raised as a part of a lion`s brood, or a wolf`s litter. Cut off from civilization, they gradually take on the characteristics of the creatures who adopted them, forming some kind of unity with the spirit of the wild. In the process they become feralans, beings who combine the savagery of beasts with the intellect of man.

Advantages:
-  +10% to Stealth ability.
-  May go into a Feral Rage once per day per 10 levels.
-  May cast Call of the Wild once per day.

Disadvantages:
-  May only place proficiency points in weapons a Shapeshifter can use.
-  May not wear any armour.
-  Receives a -2 penalty to Charisma on character creation.
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Offline icelus

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Re: Feralan Kit
« Reply #64 on: May 22, 2004, 07:26:02 PM »
I dunno... now it seems pretty underpowered.  Not wearing armor and severe weapon restrictions don't seem to balance out a once-a-day innate ability.  Unless you're keeping spellcasting, albeit limited... ?

As for the Shapeshifter item restrictions... I dunno why that was suggested, actually.  I don't see any different in the kit description between the items a druid and the items a shapeshifter can use. 

Quote
SHAPESHIFTER: This druid is not called Shapeshifter because of access to a great variety of forms, rather because of the complete dedication to a single alternate form.  This druid has willingly allowed infection with Lycanthropy, but due to intense study and training, has the ability to control the affliction.  The creature shapeshifted to is that of the Werewolf, the most famous of the lycanthrope shape changers.

Advantages:
-  May shapeshift into the form of a werewolf once per day for every 2 levels (starts at 1st level with one use).
-  At 13th level gains the ability to change into a greater werewolf once per day.

Disadvantages:
-  No other shapeshifting abilities due to the effort required maintaining balance in primary forms
-  Cannot wear ANY armor
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Offline Andyr

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Re: Feralan Kit
« Reply #65 on: May 23, 2004, 05:12:31 AM »
Well, with my above build I wasn't going to restrict spells at all, to keep it away from the Barbarian. :) So it shouldn't be that underpowered.

The Beast Master Ranger kit has weapon restrictions (non - metal only), that's all I can see... But do we want 2 ranger kits to have the same restrictions? Hmmm.
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Offline icelus

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Re: Feralan Kit
« Reply #66 on: May 23, 2004, 09:36:59 AM »
Hmm... I see your point about weapon restrictions.  Beastmasters, I would guess, are opposed to metallic weapons on principle, whereas a Feralan may have just never had any experience with them.  Perhaps no weapon restrictions should be placed on the Feralan, but cap it at one proficiency point for metallic weapons?
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Offline rreinier

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Re: Feralan Kit
« Reply #67 on: May 23, 2004, 09:41:29 AM »
Seems like a good idea, though I'd exclude the dagger from this restriction. Seems easy enough for a skilled woodsman to make a dagger out of bone. Not sure if this'd apply to other weapons as well.

I would, however, restrict crossbows too. They're not exactly easy to come by in the wild...

Offline Andyr

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Re: Feralan Kit
« Reply #68 on: May 23, 2004, 11:33:33 AM »
What about things like Spears, too, though?

Shall I just cap at 1 all the sword types (except daggers), crossbows, flails? Anything else?
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Offline icelus

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Re: Feralan Kit
« Reply #69 on: May 23, 2004, 11:51:12 AM »
I'd say spears are OK.  Would a long stick with a pointed end still be considered a spear?  Even so, the methods needed to use a spear wouldn't really change if a metal point was added to the end, so I don't think anyone should be penalized for that.  Swords, halberds, crossbows, etc., all require I would assume, more specialized training to master, and, living in the wild, a Feralan wouldn't really pick up on.
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Offline rreinier

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Re: Feralan Kit
« Reply #70 on: May 23, 2004, 12:11:57 PM »
I'd say:

1 pip: bastard sword, long sword, two handed sword, katana, scimitar, halberd, flail, crossbow
2 pips: axe, dagger, war hammer, club, spear, quarter staff, longbow, shortbow, sling, dart

Not sure about short sword and mace. They're both weapons that one would not find or make in the wild, but the techniques are similar to "2 pips" weapons (dagger and club, respectively).

About weapon styles: maximum pips for all of them, except maybe sword and shield? Not sure about that one. Not that it matters too much, since nobody actually seems to use that weapon style...

I wouldn't say this particularly underpowers the Feralan. Dual-wielding axes or war hammers, or using longbows, he can be quite a formidable fighter...

About armor restrictions: I'm doubtful. Would it be possible to only have him be able to use Hide armor? It seems the only appropriate type, since even Leather and Studded leather would be unavailable in the wild.

Offline Andyr

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Re: Feralan Kit
« Reply #71 on: May 23, 2004, 12:31:46 PM »
I like rreinier's suggestion. :) I'd say 2 pips in Mace but only one in Short Sword. If we make Short Sword 2, it might cause all sorts of debates like actulay i r train with teh short sowrds 4 23 yaers adn tehy are asey 2 use tahn maces!!!11

Was going to leave all the Weapon Styles at full, though, yeah, few people use shields with Rangers. :)

Hide only I don't think is possible. But I can restrict it to None (using the Shapeshifter kit flag) or Studded Leather max (with Stalker/Archer).

So, final thoughts?
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Offline icelus

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Re: Feralan Kit
« Reply #72 on: May 23, 2004, 12:35:30 PM »
I could go either way on the armor, I suppose.  Most of the kits have armor restrictions based on how it affects their particular skill (kensai, monk, archer, thief, etc).  I suppose it comes down to a question of principle.  The Beastmaster and druid can wear leather armor, and they're arguably as much in tune as the Feralan, so I don't know if I see a reason why a Feralan would be opposed to it--unless it reminds him of his mother or something... heh.
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Offline Andyr

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Re: Feralan Kit
« Reply #73 on: May 23, 2004, 12:46:04 PM »
I'm not sure either. The thing is, Rangers can wear any armour, right? But all 3 BioWare kits have armour restrictions of (I think) nonmetal armour only. So, giving the Feralan that makes it the same as the others. But not restricting it all all would be a bit silly...

How about no armour but gets a +1 AC bonus every 5 levels?
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Offline icelus

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Re: Feralan Kit
« Reply #74 on: May 23, 2004, 12:48:14 PM »
Hmmm... OK.  Would a +1 CON or DEX be too much, too?
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