Author Topic: Non-PC Paladins  (Read 4235 times)

Offline rreinier

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Non-PC Paladins
« on: September 18, 2004, 07:55:01 AM »
A post by SoS in the Quest Pack Forum got me thinking (rare occurance...). If  a PC Paladin falls as the result of any Virtue drop, shouldn't Keldorn (and other NPC Paladins) leave the party when Virtue drops? After all, they, as a Paladin, shoudn't agree to taking part in evil activities, or to working together with someone they know committed evil...

Offline Lord Kain

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Re: Non-PC Paladins
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2004, 07:20:36 PM »
A Paladin expects to live by a code. But a Paladin does not expect everyone to live by that code.
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Offline Andyr

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Re: Non-PC Paladins
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2004, 07:26:44 PM »
It would make sense, though, if the Paladin NPCs starting moaning at a much higher Reputation/Virtue than other Good characters do.
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Offline rreinier

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Re: Non-PC Paladins
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2004, 08:28:42 AM »
But Virtue doesn't really drop for a violation of the Paladin's code. It generally drops for committing evil acts, with which a Paladin certainly would not agree...

Offline SimDing0

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Re: Non-PC Paladins
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2004, 11:47:01 AM »
The logic is arguably something along the lines of "the paladins try to stick around to reform you/keep an eye on you/whatever". They might well start complaining at a higher point than other NPCs, but it seems like an unsatisfying solution to just have Keldorn pack up and leave when you sponsor a dog fight or whatever.

Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: Non-PC Paladins
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2004, 06:54:39 PM »
I don't think he's talking about just any PC, but a *paladin* PC.  A PC who *is* expected to live up to all the standards and codes of whichever order he's in.
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Re: Non-PC Paladins
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2004, 12:30:19 AM »
On the subject of Non-PC Paladins, shouldn't Keldorn fall if he slaughters a random innocent?  Party NPCs are clearly not mindless drones bent to the PC's will since they are perfectly willing to leave the party or fight amongst themselves should there be alignment conflicts.  So if I tell Keldorn to kill a beggar without reason and he obeys, shouldn't he fall?

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Offline Kish

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Re: Non-PC Paladins
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2004, 01:19:55 AM »
Actually, he (...and Mazzy, Valygar, Aerie...) should refuse the command, leave the party, and turn red-circled.  However, I fear implementing this for every Innocent may be a little beyond what Sim wants to put in Virtue.
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Offline SimDing0

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Re: Non-PC Paladins
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2004, 04:51:55 AM »
Thinking about it, I'm not actually sure I could technically implement that. I can't see a way to have NPCs ignore specific commands issued by the player.

Offline Kish

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Re: Non-PC Paladins
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2004, 04:59:08 AM »
Well, I'd actually say it shouldn't matter who was actually instructed to attack the innocent--if anyone in the party attacks an innocent, a bunch of NPCs should leave and go red-circled.
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Offline SimDing0

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Re: Non-PC Paladins
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2004, 05:05:46 AM »
Oh, the actual attacking can be detected, just not the order.

Offline rreinier

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Re: Non-PC Paladins
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2004, 10:57:54 AM »
I don't think he's talking about just any PC, but a *paladin* PC. A PC who *is* expected to live up to all the standards and codes of whichever order he's in.
Not really, but I think there would be even more reason for a Paladin to leave if that were the case.

If you don't like the original idea, how about Paladins issuing a (spoken) warning if Virtue drops once, and leaving when it happens again (or maybe after the third time)?

Also, I do think it'd be nice to have some NPC's turning purple and attacking the person that attacked an innocent...

Offline Andyr

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Re: Non-PC Paladins
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2004, 11:57:53 AM »
I think purple circles were dropped in BG2. I know Tutu had some issues with the stuff involving purple circles in BG1.
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Offline Caedwyr

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Re: Non-PC Paladins
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2004, 12:01:44 PM »
During the dream sequences in BGII your party members are purple circled.  I'm thinking of the dreams outside of candlekeep.
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Offline Andyr

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Re: Non-PC Paladins
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2004, 12:04:22 PM »
Oh, um, in that case ignore me. :)
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Offline igi

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Re: Non-PC Paladins
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2004, 04:56:40 PM »
Purple circles show when using the MakeUnselectable() action.
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Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: Non-PC Paladins
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2004, 06:24:15 AM »
Andyr's actually right, purple circles do suck in BG2.  You can't issue script commands to anyone who's purple circled, unless they're issued in the same action block of a script or dialogue.  This is why the tutu purple-circle fights failed.  All the attack commands were issued after the NPCs turned purple.

The better way to do it, which is what they do in BG2 already, is have the NPC leave the party so he's blue-circled, and have him fight that way.
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Offline Janneia

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Re: Non-PC Paladins
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2004, 04:18:47 AM »
I think purple circles were dropped in BG2. I know Tutu had some issues with the stuff involving purple circles in BG1.

That's odd. I was playing in Sendai's enclave yesterday and I was at the point of this drow person who was trying to kill me FOR Sendai and there was this Spectator (??) Beholder thing which was from somewhere else who asked me if I wanted a geas put on me and that guy and we'd fight it out and whoever loses, their whole party dies with them. (The Spectator was like, don't you think Sendai would take the credit for killing this Bhaalspawn etc). Do I really want to take out that much drow? No. I wasn't. So I agreed and all my party members went purple-circled and I defeated the guy. And they all died and I couldn't reach their stuff... :'(
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Offline Andyr

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Re: Non-PC Paladins
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2004, 06:39:32 PM »
As Ghrey said, they are in, but you can't do everything with them that you can do a character who ir not purple. ;)
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