Author Topic: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?  (Read 15597 times)

Offline Echon

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What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
« on: September 13, 2004, 03:27:11 PM »
Come one, come all and complain to your heart's content. :)

Considering the many replies this thread recieved at the TeamBG forum, people have a lot to complain about. If you voice your dissatisfaction here, I might do something about it if I consider it reasonable in nature and scope. There are probably some who would have liked to lead armies against Amn, help Sarevok level Baldur's Gate or build their own keep in the Wood of Sharp Teeth but that is all beyond the scope of this mod. Nothing prevents you from suggesting things like that but I am likely going to ignore it.

Examples of things I did not like:

That it is not possible to steal Unshey's girdle after delivering it to him (he may don it, of course).
That most spells did not do everything they claimed to do. (Already taken care of).
That it was not possible to both sell ankheg shells to Taerom and have him manufacture armour of them, and that he would only do it once.

Others did not like that the Flametongue Sword did not do fire damage, that it should be possible to accept a courtesan's offer, and so on. Hopefully you get the picture. If you replied to the TeamBG thread, you do not need to repeat it here as I wrote everything down (that I intended to do something about).

-Echon

Offline mcruz

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Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2004, 03:43:44 PM »
I guess one thing that kinda annoyed me was that Kivan didn't really seem to react to Tazok's presence (either when you pretended to join the bandits or at the last battle with Sarevok and company)...at least some dialogue would be nice

that is all for now  :)

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Offline Echon

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Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2004, 03:53:00 PM »
I forgot to mention that the mod will contain no changes or additions to the dialogues of the joinable NPCs. This is in part because the BG NPC Project already takes care of that, and as I never intended to do anything major with their dialogues anyway, I have decided not to alter them at all. This may help to ensure compatibility, although I am not certain about it.

-Echon

Offline SimDing0™

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Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2004, 03:54:14 PM »
Please... don't avoid changing them if the necessity arises just for the sake of BG1NPC. There are people who don't play with it. :)

Offline Echon

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Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2004, 04:04:46 PM »
Heh. I doubt the necessity will arrise as altering existing dialogues was never part of my goal. I can think of one, perhaps two, creatures whose dialogues I had new ideas for and none of these were joinable NPCs. Only new dialogues are garuanteed.

-Echon

Offline NiGHTMARE

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Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2004, 04:34:39 PM »
Please... don't avoid changing them if the necessity arises just for the sake of BG1NPC. There are people who don't play with it. :)
More fool them :P.
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Offline Galactygon

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Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2004, 05:44:53 PM »
I might have mentioned it before back at TeamBG, (about spells) is the following:
1.) Otiluke's Resilient Sphere allows a saving throw if you cast it as a protective spell on allies (can be fixed via .eff files).
2.) There was an annoying 1 second wait time for Dimension Door (and had a casting time of two rather than one); in Shadow Door this was absent. You disappeared instantly.
3.) Friendly Spells don't ignore magic resistance

These three items here that remind me of an idea I wanted to share:

Have each party member have an 'innate ability' to lower their saving throws, magic resistance, etc. to one for 2 seconds (in real time), so you can make them delibretly (sp?) fail their saving throws if you chug a fireball at them.

Just a thought. :)

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Offline Echon

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Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2004, 02:20:23 AM »
1.) Otiluke's Resilient Sphere allows a saving throw if you cast it as a protective spell on allies (can be fixed via .eff files).

I can see why this would be useful but it also means that the spell would always be successful on hostile party members who have been charmed or dominated.

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2.) There was an annoying 1 second wait time for Dimension Door (and had a casting time of two rather than one); in Shadow Door this was absent. You disappeared instantly.

3.) Friendly Spells don't ignore magic resistance

That has already been taken care of. As for #3, the site should already state this.

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Have each party member have an 'innate ability' to lower their saving throws, magic resistance, etc. to one for 2 seconds (in real time), so you can make them delibretly (sp?) fail their saving throws if you chug a fireball at them.

Why? I can understand lowering magic resistance if friendly spells and effects did not ignore it but they do.

-Echon

Offline SimDing0™

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Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2004, 07:36:20 AM »
1.) Otiluke's Resilient Sphere allows a saving throw if you cast it as a protective spell on allies (can be fixed via .eff files).

I can see why this would be useful but it also means that the spell would always be successful on hostile party members who have been charmed or dominated.
If they've been charmed, can we not assume that they can be controlled to submit to any spells cast on them?

Offline Echon

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Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2004, 07:59:13 AM »
If they've been charmed, can we not assume that they can be controlled to submit to any spells cast on them?

If they have been charmed by enemy NPCs and are hostile towards the party?

-Echon

Offline SimDing0™

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Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2004, 08:00:20 AM »
Oh, sorry, I wasn't thinking properly. You're right.

Offline Mageling

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Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2004, 08:41:06 AM »
I don't know if this was said before but,
when i have the cloak of balduran on...and branwen tries to heal me
i get like: magic resistance  :P

soooooooooooooo...... :-yin
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Offline Galactygon

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Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2004, 08:52:12 AM »
Who said they had to cast the Resilient Sphere when they are charmed? They don't have to cast all of the spells; only a few. ;)

-Galactygon

Offline Echon

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Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2004, 09:06:01 AM »
I don't know if this was said before but,
when i have the cloak of balduran on...and branwen tries to heal me
i get like: magic resistance  :P

soooooooooooooo...... :-yin

"All friendly spells now ignore magic resistance to take into account that any being with magic resistance can lower it at will."

-Echon

Offline Mageling

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Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2004, 09:20:35 AM »
I don't know if this was said before but,
when i have the cloak of balduran on...and branwen tries to heal me
i get like: magic resistance  :P

soooooooooooooo...... :-yin

"All friendly spells now ignore magic resistance to take into account that any being with magic resistance can lower it at will."

-Echon


ow right i forgot  ::)
stupid me ;x  :-Zzz
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Offline hlidskialf

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Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2004, 12:32:42 PM »
1) No one is interested in the "Vials of mysterious fluid" you get from the Nashkel mines. You'd think that at least Thalantyr or the fellow at the Sorcerous Sunderies would be interested in it's alchemey.

2) The cheesey way the party gets to "help" the children in the game. It seems that so long as the party notes something sad in it journal they don't have to do anything to help. eg) The kid who's somewhat "crazy" from watching his family animated as undead by that insane cleric Bassilus. Or the girl in Baldur's Gate city that asks you to get the ring to rescue her cat. "Here's the ring, now you have your kitty. Go enjoy a homeless existance. We have tonnes of money but won't even give you any since I'm gonig to write in my journal how your life is going to make me sad." I know it's kinda sucky, but if YOU found a kid in trouble (with a good alignment at least) would you just walk away? Take the kid to a temple for cryin' out loud.

3) You can only get 1 set of ankheg armour made at the Taerum smithy. And if you don't choose it right away, you lose the option for later.

4) Otiluke's Sphere problem. (You've already addressed it.) It's the number 1 BG1 "Save the NPC before they die." spell.

5) The ArchDruid in the Cloakwood forest is a pussy.

6) Bears too easily get hostile. They need a longer timer before going after the party, or a chance to leave instead of attacking. Most bears in RL will "depart" when they hear someone coming unless protecting cubs/a kill. Since the party is covered in jingly metal bits, you'd think that the bear might be forewarned.

7) Delainly (The werewolf wench) should have the option to join the party. I know about the other mod, but we need some kind of BG1 version.  ;D

8) The Gullykin store blows. There should be some interesting or at least halfing oriented items in the inventory.

9) Another option for discovering about the whole Flaming Fist take-over, etc... It'd be cool if one could go to a temple to summon the ghost of Scar to ask a few questions.

10) You should be able to continue the game after killing Sarevok and do the TotSC quests at that point. If not, then there should be some kind of delay for chapter 6/7 where "Sarevok is out of touch for a couple months. Go find something else to do until he returns so you can settle this crap."

11) Who made the zombies in that northern farm? It shouts either "mini-quest" or a rumor or something.

12) There should be the option of some kind of "wrath" dialog for Shandalar. As it is now, if you do the quest and are pissed, he leaves before you can extract satisfaction.  :pirate

Just a few things that popped into me head.
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Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2004, 12:50:23 PM »
3) You can only get 1 set of ankheg armour made at the Taerum smithy. And if you don't choose it right away, you lose the option for later.

How rich is Taerom though?  I think some way to keep this from becoming an infinite money fount would be in order.  How hard is it to kill Ankhegs, after all?  Then with those funds you could stock up on a million poison arrows, and take out flesh golems in the Safana map until you're level 9.  All before tackling Mulahey. :)

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8) The Gullykin store blows. There should be some interesting or at least halfing oriented items in the inventory.

Actually, I think that Gullykin and the temple of Helm in Nashkel share the same .sto file.  I've sold items in Nashkel and then been able to buy them in Gullykin.  It could be another store (Friendly Arm Inn maybe?), but I know that Gullykin and some other store somewhere use the same file.

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10) You should be able to continue the game after killing Sarevok and do the TotSC quests at that point. If not, then there should be some kind of delay for chapter 6/7 where "Sarevok is out of touch for a couple months. Go find something else to do until he returns so you can settle this crap."

I agree with the continuation of TotSC, but disagree with the "Sarevok's on Holidays" bit.  I don't want my intense chase interrupted if I decide I don't want to play Durlag's tower during that particular game.
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Offline hlidskialf

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Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2004, 01:10:17 PM »
3) You can only get 1 set of ankheg armour made at the Taerum smithy. And if you don't choose it right away, you lose the option for later.

How rich is Taerom though?  I think some way to keep this from becoming an infinite money fount would be in order.  How hard is it to kill Ankhegs, after all?  Then with those funds you could stock up on a million poison arrows, and take out flesh golems in the Safana map until you're level 9.  All before tackling Mulahey. :)

I was talking about commissioning the armour not selling the shells. The former does nothing but make Taerum money. (It costs the Player a significant sum, and 10 days.) The latter is the money-for-party generator. I agree that there must be a limit on the latter. "I can't afford to buy any more off ye', maybe next year."

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10) You should be able to continue the game after killing Sarevok and do the TotSC quests at that point. If not, then there should be some kind of delay for chapter 6/7 where "Sarevok is out of touch for a couple months. Go find something else to do until he returns so you can settle this crap."

I agree with the continuation of TotSC, but disagree with the "Sarevok's on Holidays" bit.  I don't want my intense chase interrupted if I decide I don't want to play Durlag's tower during that particular game.

Well the first choice is my favorite. The second is only to justify doing the quests instead of beating Sarevok/ending the game immeditately. Which actually makes sense. "You are hunted, Sarevok is about to start a war, must be time to sail on a 3 month voyage."  :P
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Offline SimDing0™

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Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2004, 01:12:37 PM »
Why do you do the TotSC quests after you kill Sarevok? They're designed as add-ins, to be completed beforehand. In any case, what WOULD end the game if killing Sarevok doesn't?

Offline hlidskialf

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Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2004, 01:21:47 PM »
Why do you do the TotSC quests after you kill Sarevok? They're designed as add-ins, to be completed beforehand. In any case, what WOULD end the game if killing Sarevok doesn't?

I'd have to disagree Sim, the quests were not designed to be played properly as Add-ins. They require that the player be as high a level as possible by BG1 experience before attempting them. This mandates that they must be done near the end of the game. However there is no place in the last half the chapters of the game where the player can realistically just go on quests for the adventure of it. Assuming you do anyways, by the time you've completed the quests, your level is too high to be challenged by Sarevok and his merry band. It was poorly slapped onto the main plot. It makes much more sense to have them take place AFTER defeating Sarevok. They didn't because they'd have to redo the ending to the game to a less dramatic "...and your adventures continue. Yada, yada." This kind of ending is far less satisfying, but better for a BG2 lead-in IMO.

Edit: Another point. What else is a high level adventuring party supposed to do after defeating their nemisis? High powered items, spells, weapons just getting dusty is a guareented call to adventure.  ;D
« Last Edit: September 14, 2004, 01:25:28 PM by hlidskialf »
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Offline Echon

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Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2004, 01:27:09 PM »
3) You can only get 1 set of ankheg armour made at the Taerum smithy. And if you don't choose it right away, you lose the option for later.

This is something I intend to alter. There may be a limit to the number of shells he will buy from you but not to the amount of armours he will craft. It will still remain expensive and timeconsuming, of course. I should probably also point out that ankheg armours no longer provide as good a protection as full plate mails do but on the other hand, they no longer count as magical.

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4) Otiluke's Sphere problem. (You've already addressed it.) It's the number 1 BG1 "Save the NPC before they die." spell.

Will be done.

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5) The ArchDruid in the Cloakwood forest is a pussy.

Not anymore. ;)

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6) Bears too easily get hostile. They need a longer timer before going after the party, or a chance to leave instead of attacking. Most bears in RL will "depart" when they hear someone coming unless protecting cubs/a kill. Since the party is covered in jingly metal bits, you'd think that the bear might be forewarned.

I have been thinking about altering animal behaviour. Wolves do not normally attack humans on sight, e.g. It is a possibility.

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8) The Gullykin store blows. There should be some interesting or at least halfing oriented items in the inventory.

Already done. It is a lot more halfling-oriented now and it also has a new unique items for sale.

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10) You should be able to continue the game after killing Sarevok and do the TotSC quests at that point. If not, then there should be some kind of delay for chapter 6/7 where "Sarevok is out of touch for a couple months. Go find something else to do until he returns so you can settle this crap.

I suggested allowing the game to continue on TeamBG's forum but never really got any feedback on it. One obvious problem with allowing this would be that the game does not reflect Sarevok's death afterwards and I am certainly not going to attempt to fix that. On the other hand, nothing forces the player to continue the game. If he or she does not think it should continue, it can be stopped manually right there.

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11) Who made the zombies in that northern farm? It shouts either "mini-quest" or a rumor or something.

I think BioWare ran out of ideas at the end of the production of Tales of the Sword Coast and found they still had one new area to fill. Luckily they had this very enthusiastic trainee around the place at the time... ;)

It might be worth building on, though.

A lot of good ideas but I think the unadressed ones are beyond the scope of this project. I will need to finish it some day. :)

-Echon

Offline Spif

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Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2004, 01:28:53 PM »
Why do you do the TotSC quests after you kill Sarevok? They're designed as add-ins, to be completed beforehand. In any case, what WOULD end the game if killing Sarevok doesn't?

I'd have to disagree Sim, the quests were not designed to be played properly as Add-ins. They require that the player be as high a level as possible by BG1 experience before attempting them. This mandates that they must be done near the end of the game. However there is no place in the last half the chapters of the game where the player can realistically just go on quests for the adventure of it. Assuming you do anyways, by the time you've completed the quests, your level is too high to be challenged by Sarevok and his merry band. It was poorly slapped onto the main plot. It makes much more sense to have them take place AFTER defeating Sarevok. They didn't because they'd have to redo the ending to the game to a less dramatic "...and your adventures continue. Yada, yada." This kind of ending is far less satisfying, but better for a BG2 lead-in IMO.

Edit: Another point. What else is a high level adventuring party supposed to do after defeating their nemisis? High powered items, spells, weapons just getting dusty is a guareented call to adventure.  ;D

It would require tons of new dialogue if the game doesn't end after you defeat Sarevok. BioWare realized this during the development. You can actually find unused dialogues where citizens praise you for what you have done.

Offline SimDing0™

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Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2004, 01:31:10 PM »
I'd have to disagree Sim, the quests were not designed to be played properly as Add-ins. They require that the player be as high a level as possible by BG1 experience before attempting them.

The most fun I had playing through Durlag's Tower was with a low-level (for BG1) party. I headed there as soon as I was able to take out the Battle Horrors. I don't think being post-Sarevok is a requirement.

Offline Echon

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Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2004, 01:33:44 PM »
How rich is Taerom though?  I think some way to keep this from becoming an infinite money fount would be in order.  How hard is it to kill Ankhegs, after all?  Then with those funds you could stock up on a million poison arrows, and take out flesh golems in the Safana map until you're level 9.  All before tackling Mulahey. :)

Alright, a few comments. The party will not be able to sell infinite ankheg shells to Taerom. They will not even be able to kill ankhegs infinitely as they no longer continue to spawn over and over again. Along that note, the Flesh Golem exploit has also been removed. And thirdly, all shops have finite amounts of magical items to sell.

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Actually, I think that Gullykin and the temple of Helm in Nashkel share the same .sto file.  I've sold items in Nashkel and then been able to buy them in Gullykin.  It could be another store (Friendly Arm Inn maybe?), but I know that Gullykin and some other store somewhere use the same file.

I have taken care of the duplicate stores.

-Echon

Offline Echon

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Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2004, 01:36:57 PM »
I was talking about commissioning the armour not selling the shells. The former does nothing but make Taerum money. (It costs the Player a significant sum, and 10 days.) The latter is the money-for-party generator. I agree that there must be a limit on the latter. "I can't afford to buy any more off ye', maybe next year."

While I do agree that the party should only be able to sell a few shells to him to avoid an exploit, have a look at what Taerom actually has to say about your selling the ankheg shell to him:

"Ahhh, this will make a fine suit of plate for a governor or better.  Nobility like exotic materials, and don't care much about the price.  Probably close to 20,000 gold for a tenday's work when I'm finished.  I may survive this iron shortage after all."

-Echon

 

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