Author Topic: Virtue for Tutu. It even rhymes. Almost.  (Read 14923 times)

Offline SimDing0™

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Virtue for Tutu. It even rhymes. Almost.
« on: September 06, 2004, 11:06:15 AM »
So, because I obviously don't have enough on my plate already, I thought I'd look further into expanding Virtue to work with BG1Tutu.

In an ideal world, I'd play through the game noting down what should affect Virtue.
In a better world, someone else would do it for me. :)

Realistically speaking, I'm more likely to get any takers if I do what I did for BG2: deal with everything that changes reputation first, then examine other situations as I come to them, think of them, or as they're suggested.

So... any preliminary thoughts on where Virtue needs to change are more than welcome.

Offline Mongoose87

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Re: Virtue for Tutu. It even rhymes. Almost.
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2004, 08:05:39 PM »
Well, the old lady that gets you to retrieve her necklace in The Freindly Arm would be one.

And I would like to add that it's great to see oyu finnaly deicdign to go through with this.

Offline Andyr

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Re: Virtue for Tutu. It even rhymes. Almost.
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2004, 04:02:29 PM »
Not sure exactly what you'r after, but...

In FW4600 there is a Paladin of the Radiant Heart called Laurel. If you're evil/low rep (don't recall which) then dialogue forces you into combat, which decreases reputation. There is nobody else around, so it shouldn't casuse a reputation drop, just Virtue. :)
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Offline NiGHTMARE

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Re: Virtue for Tutu. It even rhymes. Almost.
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2004, 04:41:32 PM »
Well, there's Brage of course... Should definitely get a virtue drop for not trying to talk him out of violence.

One interesting problem is how to deal with the situation in the Cloakwoods involving the nobles and the druids.  Neither are evil people, yet you're forced to side with one of the two groups over the other.  The issue is being sorted out in the BG1NPC Project (i.e. there'll be a peaceful solution), but obviously you can't force people to install that.

There's the priestess of Umberlee outside Baldur's Gate.  She's an evil character, but isn't particularly interested in a fight.  So despite worshipping the Bitch Queen, killing her should probably cause a virtue drop.

Killing Ramazith's (sp?) nymph and completing the thief guild's skyship quest should cause a big drop.

Killing Tamoko should obviously cause a virtue loss.

Hmm... that's all I can think of for now, I haven't played this game for a while ;).
« Last Edit: September 10, 2004, 04:45:29 PM by NiGHTMARE »
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Offline mcruz

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Re: Virtue for Tutu. It even rhymes. Almost.
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2004, 08:34:00 PM »
Here are some quest/encounters that might be relevant in terms of virtue:

1. North of the Friendly Arm Inn (AR1400): Farmer Brun's Son quest
2. Beregost (AR3300): Marl the Drunk, Silke
3. Nashkel (AR4800): Minsc, Edwin & Dynaheir, Oublek (the guy who mistakes the PC for Ghreywolf)
4. Carnival (AR4900): Zordral & Bentha (zordral is about to kill bentha)
5. Area W of Nashkel: Xvart Village
6. Area SW of Nashkel (AR5200): The Dryad and the Oak
7. The Nashkel Mines (AR5400): Prism's Final Masterpiece
8. Area E of Nashkel Mines: Lena and the body of Samuel
9. Area S of Ulcaster: Hulrik, the Xvarts, and the Cows
10. Cloakwood Mine (AR5400)
11. Baldur's Gate: Ramazith & Ragefast's Nymph, Brielbara and Yago's Book of Curses, Ghorak the Diseased, The Noblewoman and Cyrdemac

That's all i can think of for now   :)
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Offline Galactygon

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Re: Virtue for Tutu. It even rhymes. Almost.
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2004, 09:11:52 PM »
The Edwin and Dynaheir conflict seems to contain a good many choices that should affect your virtue.

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Offline Janneia

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Re: Virtue for Tutu. It even rhymes. Almost.
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2004, 04:07:15 AM »
Well, the old lady that gets you to retrieve her necklace in The Freindly Arm would be one.

And I would like to add that it's great to see oyu finnaly deicdign to go through with this.

Wasn't it a girdle? And Joia's flamedance ring as well (Friendly Arm Inn) since she has nothing to give you (so you can rob her house afterwards...) but perhaps..?
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Offline Ieldra

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Re: Virtue for Tutu. It even rhymes. Almost.
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2004, 04:41:16 AM »
I don't agree about the skyship quest. You should get a small penalty, not a big one, for completing it without violence.

Some more virtue-relevant situations:
-Stealing the telescope for the halfling in the Elfsong Tavern.
-The quest to kill Cyrdenac from the noblewoman in the Three Old Kegs - and continuing to blackmail her.
-The situation with the aggressive Paladin in the tavern SW of the Flaming Fist HQ. There's no peaceful solution except leaving, and its a public place - so no Virtue hit if you kill him, but Reputation is affected.

Offline Kish

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Re: Virtue for Tutu. It even rhymes. Almost.
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2004, 04:50:18 AM »
-The situation with the aggressive Paladin in the tavern SW of the Flaming Fist HQ. There's no peaceful solution except leaving, and its a public place - so no Virtue hit if you kill him, but Reputation is affected.
There is a peaceful solution: Don't have evil characters in your party.  I'd say there should be a Virtue hit if you kill him (and, since it's evident that he attacks you and not necessarily evident to the witnesses why, perhaps no Reputation hit).
« Last Edit: September 21, 2004, 03:08:11 PM by Kish »
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Offline Ieldra

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Re: Virtue for Tutu. It even rhymes. Almost.
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2004, 07:43:06 AM »
-The situation with the aggressive Paladin in the tavern SW of the Flaming Fist HQ. There's no peaceful solution except leaving, and its a public place - so no Virtue hit if you kill him, but Reputation is affected.
There is a peaceful solution: Don't have evil characters in your party.  I'd say there should be a Virtue hit if you kill him (and, since it's evident that he attacks you and not necessarily evident why, perhaps no Reputation hit).

I don't agree. Instead, I think that Paladin is a candidate for falling. Attacking someone just because his evil-meter glows red, without knowing anything more, should not be considered Lawful Good. "Don't have evil characters in your party" isn't a solution - if you take your roleplaying seriously, you can't know before you go in, leaving you with a fight you have neither chosen nor provoked. So, no Virtue penalty here.
I do agree that the situation can be interpreted in different ways concerning the effects on Reputation.

 

Offline Kish

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Re: Virtue for Tutu. It even rhymes. Almost.
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2004, 01:45:36 PM »
"Don't have evil characters in your party" isn't a solution - if you take your roleplaying seriously, you can't know before you go in,
Can't know that your party members are evil before a strange paladin attacks them?  "Taking your roleplaying seriously" isn't the same thing as "being stupid."
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Offline NiGHTMARE

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Re: Virtue for Tutu. It even rhymes. Almost.
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2004, 03:05:21 PM »
I don't agree about the skyship quest. You should get a small penalty, not a big one, for completing it without violence.
Even if you complete it without violence, you're depriving the good aligned government (and more importantly, the people) of Baldur's Gate of something which would prove to be a exceptional means of defense, an enormous source of income, etc; in other words, you're affecting the entire balance of power in the region.

Just imagine stealing the plans for the first aeroplane from the Wright brothers, and then giving the plans to Germany.  If they were the only country in WWI with aeroplanes, the outcome of the war might have been very different...
« Last Edit: September 21, 2004, 03:13:27 PM by NiGHTMARE »
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Offline Andyr

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Re: Virtue for Tutu. It even rhymes. Almost.
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2004, 03:36:57 PM »
I didn't know there was a non - violent solution...
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Offline Kish

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Re: Virtue for Tutu. It even rhymes. Almost.
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2004, 03:43:36 PM »
In BG1, Charm Person works more like it does in P&P.  You can question people you've charmed...and ask them for things.
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Offline Andyr

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Re: Virtue for Tutu. It even rhymes. Almost.
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2004, 04:05:15 PM »
Heh. :) I had forgotten about that - my characters were loaded up with Magic Missile and Sleep instead. ;)

EDIT: Removed irrelevant on - topic stuff as I misread NiGHTMARE's post.
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Offline NiGHTMARE

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Re: Virtue for Tutu. It even rhymes. Almost.
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2004, 04:08:03 PM »
IIRC you can also sneak past the women guarding the artifacts, since they're all found in containers.
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Offline Andyr

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Re: Virtue for Tutu. It even rhymes. Almost.
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2004, 04:46:23 PM »
When I played you were in dialogue as soon as you reached that floor, so I guess you'd have to be Invisible or similar when going up the stairs.
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Offline Drugar

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Re: Virtue for Tutu. It even rhymes. Almost.
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2004, 04:27:02 AM »
Just did the quest yesterday. Hide in shadows, sneak upstairs, and you'll be invisible for a few more seconds, well enough time to get into the other room without the lasses. Take the items, Hide again, and sneak back downstairs.
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Offline Ieldra

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Re: Virtue for Tutu. It even rhymes. Almost.
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2004, 02:52:02 AM »
"Don't have evil characters in your party" isn't a solution - if you take your roleplaying seriously, you can't know before you go in,
Can't know that your party members are evil before a strange paladin attacks them?  "Taking your roleplaying seriously" isn't the same thing as "being stupid."

What I meant is: you can't know that your evil characters will be attacked when you enter that tavern. And once inside, it's too late. 

Offline neriana

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Re: Virtue for Tutu. It even rhymes. Almost.
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2004, 03:24:27 PM »
"Don't have evil characters in your party" isn't a solution - if you take your roleplaying seriously, you can't know before you go in,
Can't know that your party members are evil before a strange paladin attacks them?  "Taking your roleplaying seriously" isn't the same thing as "being stupid."

What I meant is: you can't know that your evil characters will be attacked when you enter that tavern. And once inside, it's too late. 

If you take your roleplaying seriously, you shouldn't care about being virtuous when traveling with evil characters.
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Offline NiGHTMARE

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Re: Virtue for Tutu. It even rhymes. Almost.
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2004, 04:14:35 PM »
From a roleplaying perspective, you wouldn't neccessarily know that certain members of your party were evil.
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Offline Andyr

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Re: Virtue for Tutu. It even rhymes. Almost.
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2004, 05:34:19 PM »
But you might well at least suspect it when you've gotten to know them. ;)
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Offline Kish

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Re: Virtue for Tutu. It even rhymes. Almost.
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2004, 06:03:44 PM »
From a roleplaying perspective, you wouldn't neccessarily know that certain members of your party were evil.
Most of the evil BG1 characters are so very subtle about being evil, too.  Who are you thinking of, now?  The crazy necromancer?  The Red Wizard who talks to himself and insults you constantly?  The psychopathic halfling?  The drow priestess of Shar?  The misogynistic con man?  Name one evil BG1 NPC who a PC who wasn't stone deaf and stone blind could possibly avoid knowing was evil.
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Offline mcruz

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Re: Virtue for Tutu. It even rhymes. Almost.
« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2004, 07:28:20 PM »
If there is one it might be Kagain...he didn't really strike me as being all that evil but maybe i forgotten something

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Offline Kish

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Re: Virtue for Tutu. It even rhymes. Almost.
« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2004, 08:48:25 PM »
Kagain is less over-the-top than all the others, but even he is clear and unambiguous about the ruthlessness of his profit motive.
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