Author Topic: Where will I end up?  (Read 2318 times)

Offline Ieldra

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Where will I end up?
« on: September 03, 2004, 07:45:37 AM »
I'll be starting a new game soon and I was thinking about installing Virtue.

My character is neutral and I'd like him to stay that way. Now some people here say virtue goes up too easily if you don't go out of your way to do some evil, which would not be in-character for my character in most cases. Apart from extorting snotty nobles, going where he isn't supposed to go (and sometimes killing as a consequence of being there, as in the case of the Guarded Compound), and demanding money for his services if he thinks he can get a non-trivial amount he'll generally prefer the peaceful solutions, simply because it's less trouble.

So, will I still end up good?

The problem I see is that actions don't always tell what you are. Occasionally helping people is something people of all alignments might do, whether it's good or not on a virtue scale is decided by their motivation - and I guess the mod can't read minds. I have always had the problem of my reputation being far higher than I felt was deserved - most of my characters were good, but no saints. Playing anything but a sociopathic killer, in most cases, meant that I got the 20 at the end. Does Virtue remedy that?



 

Offline SimDing0

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Re: Where will I end up?
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2004, 08:00:56 AM »
Virtue introduces more opportunities for change than there were with reputation in the original game. Things like abandoning Minsc and Jaheira in Irenicus' dungeon, sponsoring dog fights, and so on, will cause Virtue drops. There are also undoubtedly opportunities for change which I've missed, on the other hand. It does not in any case, however, remedy the flaw in the design of the original game which dictates that good quest solutions are usually the most favourable, or that evil is rarely more sophisticated than killing people. Therefore, while you're less likely to end up good than you are without Virtue, chances are that it'll still swing that way if you're not in the habit of employing the methods of being evil that BG2 allows.
Neutral will arguably be the most difficult alignment to play, since you either have to act inconsistently or genuinely neutrally, which occasionally means forfeitting the best quest solutions and rewards.

Offline Ieldra

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Re: Where will I end up?
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2004, 11:43:58 AM »
All right. I'll try it. But does that mean that in nearly all the instances where I gained reputation in the game, I'll now gain virtue as well? I'm thinking of situations like gaining reputation for saving Suldanesselar. Gaining reputation is very much OK, but I shouldn't necessarily gain virtue - after all, this is a matter of survival, perhaps even vengeance. There is also the problem that there wasn't any medium reputation loss. Sometimes you may lose 1, but most of the time, you'll lose 8-10 if you had been mostly good, so it's not possible to become "just a little less good". My solution for these problems was to kill an annoying non-hostile NPC and to buy part of the reputation back. Since I guess this won't be possible with Virtue - how's this going to be? Are there significant opportunities to lose a little Virtue - say 2-4 points, if you have 15 or more?

Ah, and just another question: Will I lose Virtue when stealing in a shop and being detected, just like I usually lose reputation? My character has no problems with stealing, except for the fact that the shopowners become hostile since he doesn't want to kill them. It may be that this solves the problem of becoming "too good".

And, BTW, do you lose Virtue from stealing attempts in shops even when you're successful? I guess losing Virtue from pickpocketing would be hard to implement, but in shops it should be possible? Or nor?









« Last Edit: September 03, 2004, 11:56:41 AM by Ieldra »

Offline SimDing0

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Re: Where will I end up?
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2004, 11:47:41 AM »
Some of the places you saw reputation change originally now change virtue as well. Some others change virtue instead. I can't think of any rough statistics on the matter.
There are definitely finer degrees of virtue loss. Minor evil deeds will drop it by 1 or 2, while cold-blooded murder can potentially shift it a good 8 or so downwards.
Finally, if you encounter any situations where you feel virtue isn't doing it's job, whether it's a place where a change should be, a place where it shouldn't, or whatever, please feel free to start a discussion on it here on the forum. The mod's by no means perfect, and I always look to improve it.

Offline Ieldra

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Re: Where will I end up?
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2004, 12:00:44 PM »
Well, I have to say I'm curious how this will work out. I'll comment here on any situations where I see an opportunity that might have been overlooked or that I find inappropriate. It will be a few days since I'll bring my char through BG1Tutu first.

I've had some questions about stealing as well in my previous post - you may have overlooked them because you answered while I was editing my post. Any answers there?



 

Offline SimDing0

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Re: Where will I end up?
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2004, 12:05:13 PM »
Sorry, yes, I missed the last part of your post.

Ah, and just another question: Will I lose Virtue when stealing in a shop and being detected, just like I usually lose reputation? My character has no problems with stealing, except for the fact that the shopowners become hostile since he doesn't want to kill them. It may be that this solves the problem of becoming "too good".

And, BTW, do you lose Virtue from stealing attempts in shops even when you're successful? I guess losing Virtue from pickpocketing would be hard to implement, but in shops it should be possible? Or nor?
Virtue drops on successful thieving, either from shops or pickpocketting, aren't possible to implement (much to my annoyance). I could probably have failure at either cause a drop at a push, but I haven't done so far because that's very inconsistant.

 

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