Author Topic: Religious/political argument  (Read 14819 times)

Offline jester

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Re: Religious/political argument
« Reply #25 on: August 31, 2004, 04:35:53 PM »
Terrorism is the war of the poor, and, war is terrorism of the rich.  Sir. P. Ustinov

If the west could overcome its fear of Iran. Al Sistani would be a good choice for the new leader of Iraq. Exactly because he opposes the mixture of religion and politics.

I bet Tim McVeigh was also a protestant, but I do not count him as one of ours. :D
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Offline julwise

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Re: Religious/political argument
« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2004, 05:31:24 PM »
Quote
EDIT: ha ha, I shouldn't get into this. ;p I'll just say that as an American, Bush represents me. And although I was not able to vote in the last election, I find his representation of me... inaccurate.
errr Wrong thread I suppose or is this part of some pagan religion?  ::)

Why would it be pagan? ha ha. I had just said something political debatey and decided to un-say it b/c I didn't want to get into debate.

Offline Joe

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Re: Religious/political argument
« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2004, 12:28:22 AM »
Let's not try to pretend that there are hordes of terrorists around the world killing in the name of Christianity.

Offline jester

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Re: Religious/political argument
« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2004, 02:01:38 AM »
No Joe, because we own this world. We own the money and the institutions, we rule. Lets face it. Sadly by saying we I must admit that the rulers seldom coincide with the victims.

In case you have graciously skipped that:
Terrorism is the war of the poor, and, war is terrorism of the rich.  Sir. P. Ustinov

Sorry for this off-topicness.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

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Re: Religious/political argument
« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2004, 02:41:58 AM »
He's also missing the reference to evangelical television.

Offline Joe

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Re: Religious/political argument
« Reply #30 on: September 01, 2004, 02:34:11 PM »
No Joe, because we own this world. We own the money and the institutions, we rule. Lets face it. Sadly by saying we I must admit that the rulers seldom coincide with the victims.

In case you have graciously skipped that:
Terrorism is the war of the poor, and, war is terrorism of the rich.  Sir. P. Ustinov

Sorry for this off-topicness.


I disagree. It is their backwards, barbaric cultures that permit such disgusting behavior. If what you said was true, then every single non-Christian religion would have terrorists trying to throw a wrench in our shit.

Offline Ruben

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Re: Religious/political argument
« Reply #31 on: September 01, 2004, 02:40:32 PM »
Sorry to say this, but being Christian I will be the first to admit theirs alot of people out their who twist Christianity to their own ends.  Their enough rapist, murdered, and plenty of other Criminals that perfrom quite alot of disgusting behaviour regardless of race, or religion.


Offline SimDing0™

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Re: Religious/political argument
« Reply #32 on: September 01, 2004, 04:45:31 PM »
On the other hand, they might be following the tenets of the religion, since Christianity contradicts itself so much. Whether you follow "an eye for an eye" or "turn the other cheek" is probably up to your interpretation of the Bible, no?

Offline Andyr

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Re: Religious/political argument
« Reply #33 on: September 01, 2004, 04:57:15 PM »
You can form contradictory interpretations, you can just as easily form consistent ones. :)

The overall mesasage of the religion, in any case, is love. Remember the Bible, although the word of God, was written by men so their choice of words (and words used in translations) is not necessarily perfect.
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Offline SimDing0™

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Re: Religious/political argument
« Reply #34 on: September 01, 2004, 05:00:56 PM »
I don't see how choice of words can adjust god killing everyone on the planet except Noah to an act of love and forgiveness. :)

Offline Andyr

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Re: Religious/political argument
« Reply #35 on: September 01, 2004, 05:04:32 PM »
Perhaps you should join a Bible study group. :)
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Offline SimDing0™

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Re: Religious/political argument
« Reply #36 on: September 01, 2004, 05:13:48 PM »
Booooooooring.

Offline Andyr

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Re: Religious/political argument
« Reply #37 on: September 01, 2004, 05:24:19 PM »
 ;D
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Offline Dark Raven

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Re: Religious/political argument
« Reply #38 on: September 01, 2004, 05:26:20 PM »
Must be these one god religions that incite terrorism. I don't ever recall Wiccans killing people because The Great Goddess said so.  ::)
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Re: Religious/political argument
« Reply #39 on: September 01, 2004, 05:35:16 PM »
On the other hand, they might be following the tenets of the religion, since Christianity contradicts itself so much. Whether you follow "an eye for an eye" or "turn the other cheek" is probably up to your interpretation of the Bible, no?

If you are a Chrisitan, you should follow "turn the other cheek".  Jesus' teachings, and those of the New Testament "replace" (for lack of a better word) the teachings in the Old Testament where the two coflict / contradict each other.

Offline BobTokyo

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Re: Religious/political argument
« Reply #40 on: September 01, 2004, 05:40:43 PM »
I don't see how choice of words can adjust god killing everyone on the planet except Noah to an act of love and forgiveness. :)

What if he felt really sorry for them afterwards?

Offline neriana

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Re: Religious/political argument
« Reply #41 on: September 01, 2004, 06:09:06 PM »
No Joe, because we own this world. We own the money and the institutions, we rule. Lets face it. Sadly by saying we I must admit that the rulers seldom coincide with the victims.

In case you have graciously skipped that:
Terrorism is the war of the poor, and, war is terrorism of the rich.  Sir. P. Ustinov

Sorry for this off-topicness.


I disagree. It is their backwards, barbaric cultures that permit such disgusting behavior. If what you said was true, then every single non-Christian religion would have terrorists trying to throw a wrench in our shit.

Have you ever read the Koran? I doubt it. Have you ever bothered to attempt to learn one iota about Arabic cultures and their history, let alone their present political and cultural situations? I doubt that too. Those "backwards, barbaric cultures" were allowing women to initiate divorce and exploring complex mathematical theoroms when our ancestors were having pissing matches over who could burn the most witches. Nothing is more barbaric than ignorance masquerading as righteousness.
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Offline jester

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Re: Religious/political argument
« Reply #42 on: September 01, 2004, 07:11:12 PM »
It is their backwards, barbaric cultures that permit such disgusting behavior.

I think you need a complete history/geography overhaul. Just bible study won't suffice I am afraid. The Islam is by no means a backward religion. 'The Name of the Rose' by Umberto Eco is a good book to show how much of the past we owe this b, b culture. ;)

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Offline Caswallon

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Re: Religious/political argument
« Reply #43 on: September 01, 2004, 07:20:02 PM »
Must be these one god religions that incite terrorism. I don't ever recall Wiccans killing people because The Great Goddess said so.  ::)

Off the top of my head, I can recall several polytheistic religions killing people because their gods said so. Mostly on altars, not in street cafés or on the stake, but that doesn't matter much. ;)

neriana: The witch hunts were mostly a phenomenon of more recent times, not the Middle Ages when the Near East had that large cultural lead over Europe.
Which is, however, only nitpicking; apart from that, I wholly agree with your post. :)
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Offline Joe

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Re: Religious/political argument
« Reply #44 on: September 01, 2004, 07:47:29 PM »
Have you ever read the Koran? I doubt it.

No, I have not, though I don't see how it is relevant.

Quote
Have you ever bothered to attempt to learn one iota about Arabic cultures and their history, let alone their present political and cultural situations?

Yes.

Quote
Those "backwards, barbaric cultures" were allowing women to initiate divorce and exploring complex mathematical theoroms when our ancestors were having pissing matches over who could burn the most witches. Nothing is more barbaric than ignorance masquerading as righteousness.

You can talk about how the Middle East was the birthplace of civilization and all of that, because it basically was, but there is a key word in this sentence. WAS. It is really irrelevant who was burning witches and exploring mathematics five hundred or a thousand years ago, because as of now, the Middle East is quite barbaric. Only a fool would argue otherwise.








...unless you think that the stoning to death of teenage girls is quite civilized. Or the execution of homosexuals....

Offline Joe

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Re: Religious/political argument
« Reply #45 on: September 01, 2004, 07:52:52 PM »
The Islam is by no means a backward religion.

That's funny, I don't remember saying that the religion is backwards and barbaric. It is quite clearly not, because the Muslims that live in Western society tend not to advocate insane positions.

Offline Rathwellin the Bard

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Re: Religious/political argument
« Reply #46 on: September 01, 2004, 08:12:43 PM »
For those who say that bible study is 'booooring' or somesuch I say try it!

The bible stories you might learn as a child are *far* different from what you can find in the actual text.  Good bible study is a fantastic combination of theology, historical study, storytelling, and group interaction.  Learning about what the cultural and historical context of the various parts of the bible are is fascinating.  I've also learned a lot about the people I study with.  We've shared some incredible stories.  Finally many of the actual bible passages are flat out entertaining, especially the old Testament ones.  I also have to say that the message of Jesus is as radical today as it was 2000 years ago.

I've yet to read the Koran but I've already started learning about and reading some of the source material that went into the bible and the Koran ... and some that was left out of both.  3 years ago I had never read a thing in the bible and just had what I had learned as a kid.  Now I would never miss a session of the group I go to and feel that I have a much better grasp on adult religion as well.
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Offline BigRob

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Re: Religious/political argument
« Reply #47 on: September 01, 2004, 09:59:23 PM »
Barbarism is a relative term. The Romans considered themselves civilised, yet did many things we today would consider barbaric.

...unless you think that the stoning to death of teenage girls is quite civilized. Or the execution of homosexuals....

Laws covering those particular punishments can also be found in the Bible, if you look.

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Offline Joe

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Re: Religious/political argument
« Reply #48 on: September 01, 2004, 10:19:49 PM »
Barbarism is a relative term. The Romans considered themselves civilised, yet did many things we today would consider barbaric.

And the ugly monster called cultural relativism rears it's nasty face.

Quote
Laws covering those particular punishments can also be found in the Bible, if you look.

Again, this is so incredibly irrelevant. Do we stone people to death in our society? No. Gee, I wonder who does...OH WAIT I KNOW!

Offline julwise

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Re: Religious/political argument
« Reply #49 on: September 02, 2004, 01:10:06 AM »
A course in Anthropology should explain why calling other cultures "backwards and barbaric" receives such a reaction. Personally I think it's a bit uncivilized to judge other people's cultures so harshly, even if they ar emore violent than our own. But I don't know whether or not you've really looked at the context so perhaps your judgment is more thought out than it seems.