Author Topic: Just downloaded Sola. I love him, and I'm not gay!  (Read 23361 times)

Rassadihn

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Just downloaded Sola. I love him, and I'm not gay!
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2003, 09:33:56 AM »
Wait a minute -- female Sola? That's even better than a female *equivalent* to Sola. Solves all the "hey, I'm not gay" problems right off the bat. You could do it in so many different ways:

Sola: "Say, [CHARNAME], are you into butter-meltingly hot same-sex sex?"
PC: "Ick! Look, I like you, Sola, but not in *that* way. Not that there's anything *wrong* with that..."
Sola: "I see. Eilistraee, grant me your blessing!"
Eilistraee: "Again?"
Sola: "Last time, I promise."
Eilistraee: "Awww, my cute little fuzzy wuzzy. I never could say no to you. Write me a poem, will ya?"
Sola: "Yes, yes."

Eilistraee: Casts Gender Bender: Sola
Sola: Changes Gender

Sola: "Oh, how doth my outlook change/With shifts in body mass and weight/And various appendages/A world bewildering and strange!/Would I not know such w..."
PC: "Oh, shut up and kiss me."

Or if that's not your thing, how about Sola's twin sister? Always teasing him with his poetry, and their common drow heritage. Sort of a drow-Imoen. Speaking of which, she should make lots of allusions to what Imoen did and didn't do in the drow city. :-) The potential for various romance triangles... quadrangles... polygons in general...is simply staggering.

Ieldra

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Just downloaded Sola. I love him, and I'm not gay!
« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2003, 03:43:47 AM »
Funny :-)

Anyway, I just read the bit about the "mispronounciation" of gods names. To me, the way Sola pronounces "Eilistraee" sounds strangely appropriate. My impression is that he got it right and everyone else is wrong. Has anyone else got that impression?  

Sphira

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Just downloaded Sola. I love him, and I'm not gay!
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2003, 12:06:02 AM »
I think I’m one of the few that supports and could possibly see a reason why Solaufein is bisexual. If you treated like crap by the opposite sex that it becomes a predominate part of the culture, of course you're going to dislike and distrust that gender.

 While I believe most homosexual/bisexuals are genetically that way, in drow society most cases would be psychological due to the fact a homosexual relationship is the ONLY way for a male drow to have an equal relationship that's pleasurable for both parties. And by that same note, I’m sure female drow would enjoy a homosexual relationship too. I’m hardly saying that the relationships would be ‘loving’ but it would be equal.


*hides!*

Offline jcompton

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Just downloaded Sola. I love him, and I'm not gay!
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2003, 12:30:36 AM »
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I think I’m one of the few that supports and could possibly see a reason why Solaufein is bisexual. If you treated like crap by the opposite sex that it becomes a predominate part of the culture, of course you're going to dislike and distrust that gender.
Yet Solaufein treats a male PC exactly the same way he treats a female PC. If what you're saying applies (in that it is "why" he goes both ways aside from "he just does" or "he prefers keeping his options open" or whatever) I would expect his treatment of a female PC to be substantially different.

Typical "Wes likes writing content a subset of the player base will see less than he likes writing content all of them will see" disclaimer applies, though, as the REAL reason. :)
 
« Last Edit: May 08, 2003, 12:31:43 AM by jcompton »
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Riscorn

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Just downloaded Sola. I love him, and I'm not gay!
« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2003, 05:08:15 PM »
Its a simple, yet sort of unfortunate fact that most of the romancers in the BG2 world are men. Its a same, I suppose, but most of these men are straight. I'm a staight man myself (hello, laydeez) and I can safely vouch that the Sola romance, whilst it has a few entertaining points, is a little to .... erm.... oh yeah, gay for my tastes. I'm sure many will agree.

A Sola twin? Good idea. Make her cute, funny, witty, strong and mockingly philoshopical (dark sarcasm and plenty of it) and its a great, really great idea.

Anyway.

Dont hide. We wont hurt you. For at least another hour.

Longinus

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Just downloaded Sola. I love him, and I'm not gay!
« Reply #30 on: May 15, 2003, 05:32:31 PM »
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I think I’m one of the few that supports and could possibly see a reason why Solaufein is bisexual. If you treated like crap by the opposite sex that it becomes a predominate part of the culture, of course you're going to dislike and distrust that gender.

 While I believe most homosexual/bisexuals are genetically that way, in drow society most cases would be psychological due to the fact a homosexual relationship is the ONLY way for a male drow to have an equal relationship that's pleasurable for both parties. And by that same note, I’m sure female drow would enjoy a homosexual relationship too. I’m hardly saying that the relationships would be ‘loving’ but it would be equal.


*hides!*
Despite what his former love, who happened to be a woman by the way, did to him, Solaufein - the real Solaufein loved her. That's the beauty of it.

If you subscribe to the theory that no one can change their sexuality, straight, gay or bisexual, then it applies here too. Solaufein loved a woman within a society that despises men. Even still, the male warrior/servant class still seek female mates, and not just for status.

I've known straight women in real life who wished they were gay due to failed relationships with guys, and yet they continue to search for Mr right. Being hated by the opposite sex won't turn a person gay unless they already are.

Anyway, how much does anyone here know about Drow culture? I'm seeing far too many assumptions.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2003, 05:36:08 PM by Longinus »

Riscorn

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Just downloaded Sola. I love him, and I'm not gay!
« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2003, 03:06:04 PM »
This is a little too deep.... I just wanted to have a sexy female drow.... Is that too much to ask?

Armisael

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Just downloaded Sola. I love him, and I'm not gay!
« Reply #32 on: May 16, 2003, 11:17:21 PM »
What, Viconia not sexy enough for you?

Riscorn

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Just downloaded Sola. I love him, and I'm not gay!
« Reply #33 on: May 19, 2003, 04:03:59 PM »
Sure, but she dumps you at the end of the relationship, NO MATTER WHAT!!! And that just sucks.

Ieldra

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Just downloaded Sola. I love him, and I'm not gay!
« Reply #34 on: May 20, 2003, 07:57:42 AM »
@Riscorn: that sounds as if you didn't know that the Viconia romance picks up again in TOB if you keep her in your party in SOA...
 

Blackfey

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Just downloaded Sola. I love him, and I'm not gay!
« Reply #35 on: May 20, 2003, 02:47:46 PM »
When I first heard of Sola's "equal opportunity" loveplay, I thought that maybe all drow were bisexual but I guess Viconia doesn't fit that assumption. Since Sola doesn't make any mention of his sexual orientation being a problem, I guess I assumed that it wasn't ( in drow society at least.)  Maybe someone who knows more about the drow could comment.

As a gay man playing these games, I have to say that Sola is pretty great. Most of the BG content is geared towards straight males (it's their market, I don't blame them) so it's nice to get a bit that's more relevant to me. If only for the fact that I don't have to listen to Aerie's incessant whining and pathological dependency.  

Kish

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Just downloaded Sola. I love him, and I'm not gay!
« Reply #36 on: May 20, 2003, 03:25:04 PM »
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Maybe someone who knows more about the drow could comment.

As a gay man playing these games, I have to say that Sola is pretty great.
The drow cultural attitude toward homosexuality is never touched in any official material, tmk.  Considering the extent Lolth goes to to make sure none of her worshipers can ever have a healthy relationship (apart from the gender stratification, she demands any female who shows signs of caring for a mate sacrifice that drow immediately), I would honestly expect drow society to be more vehemently homophobic than the most extreme fundamentalist Christians, but that's a matter of interpretation.

Solaufein is one thing--he's a worshiper of Elistraee--but would you really want to be told that the most viciously evil society in Faerun, as a culture, has the most positive view of homosexuality?  I would find that message rather offensive, personally.

Longinus

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Just downloaded Sola. I love him, and I'm not gay!
« Reply #37 on: May 20, 2003, 04:56:34 PM »
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Maybe someone who knows more about the drow could comment.

As a gay man playing these games, I have to say that Sola is pretty great.
The drow cultural attitude toward homosexuality is never touched in any official material, tmk.  Considering the extent Lolth goes to to make sure none of her worshipers can ever have a healthy relationship (apart from the gender stratification, she demands any female who shows signs of caring for a mate sacrifice that drow immediately), I would honestly expect drow society to be more vehemently homophobic than the most extreme fundamentalist Christians, but that's a matter of interpretation.

Solaufein is one thing--he's a worshiper of Elistraee--but would you really want to be told that the most viciously evil society in Faerun, as a culture, has the most positive view of homosexuality?  I would find that message rather offensive, personally.
What I don't like is how people presume others are bisexual if a sexuality isn't clarified. No offense anyone, but that's just presumptuous.

To presume that all Drow are bisexual because the person doing the presuming thinks he/she is more enlightened than the rest of us when doing so, or because we don't know for sure, is wrong.

Cultures in this fantasy setting would no doubt reflect our own. Now that's a fair assumption. People will disagree, but the Drow are indeed prolific breeders.

I didn't like Weimer's reinvented Solaufein because his character has been warped and rendered inconsistent with his real counterpart.  

Offline weimer

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Just downloaded Sola. I love him, and I'm not gay!
« Reply #38 on: May 21, 2003, 12:28:28 AM »
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Mispronunciations of Gods names.

Solaufein's pronounciation of the Big E comes from a sourcebook somewhere, but it may be outdated. Without a true phonetic alphabet involved, it's hard to tell if two different "pronounciation spellings" are really different.

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but i get the ickys the few times i tried out the romance

I can sympathize with you here for a bit, because I used to "get the ickys" in such contexts myself. However, personal experience leads me to believe that it's something you can control with a bit of thought and reflection. I'm not suggesting that you can make yourself find members of your own sex attractive. But I am suggesting that you can make yourself not find them repulsive and "ick-inducing".

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I think he is a great NPC he just needs to know the differance between boys and girls.

I posit that aside from a few quantifiable differences (e.g., child-bearing, body build, mental rotation speeds, etc.) most of these "differences" are social/environmental rather than innate/genetic. The Solaufein mod is largely about interactions. I see no non-environmental reasons why any of the Solaufein interactions (especially given his "understated" presentation) should be gender-specific. Canon BG2 (and AD&D post 1st-edition) assigns males and femals the same stats, classes and potentials. Here's a quote from the character creation screen:

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Females of the Realms can excel in any area they wish, and are easily the equals of their male counterparts in every skill or respect.

One of those "respects" is "the regard of Solaufein". The upshot is that while there are gender differences, they are (1) not really relevant for the game and (2) not that great if you step back a bit.

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Wait a minute -- female Sola?

R, that was hilarious. Welcome to the Sola fandom page.

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Yet Solaufein treats a male PC exactly the same way he treats a female PC. If what you're saying applies (in that it is "why" he goes both ways aside from "he just does" or "he prefers keeping his options open" or whatever) I would expect his treatment of a female PC to be substantially different.

Good point.

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Typical "Wes likes writing content a subset of the player base will see less than he likes writing content all of them will see" disclaimer applies, though, as the REAL reason.

Good point.

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I've known straight women in real life who wished they were gay due to failed relationships with guys, and yet they continue to search for Mr right. Being hated by the opposite sex won't turn a person gay unless they already are.

Good point.

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I didn't like Weimer's reinvented Solaufein because his character has been warped and rendered inconsistent with his real counterpart.

"Real"? The next time I encounter Solaufein in the real world I'll be sure to ask him what he really believes. :-) More seriously, some people put "the game as originally presented" as a sort of canonical truth and highest goal. I put fun as the ultimate goal.


 

Seblon

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Just downloaded Sola. I love him, and I'm not gay!
« Reply #39 on: May 21, 2003, 07:48:08 AM »
I am a gay player and until Sola was created I always had to cheat Anomen to get the possibility to have some kind of relationship in BG2. I really don't understand all these straight people (mostly male players!), which have problems with a bisexual npc. Nobody has to have a relationship with him, there is just the possibility not an obligation, contrary to all the gay player who have to play a straight character in the original game (except they start cheating...!)

Greetings from Germany
« Last Edit: May 21, 2003, 07:48:48 AM by Seblon »

Rassadihn

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Just downloaded Sola. I love him, and I'm not gay!
« Reply #40 on: May 21, 2003, 08:09:08 AM »
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I am a gay player and until Sola was created I always had to cheat Anomen to get the possibility to have some kind of relationship in BG2.
I am sorry for you. I am so very, very sorry. I didn't even have anything to do with the creation or incorporation of Anomen, and I still feel guilt by proxy. Nobody should be forced through the Anomen romance, no matter their gender, sexual orientation or animal companion race.

OK, so I'm exaggerating a little. But just a little. I saw it once, and that was more than enough. Even the Aerie romance was more palatable than Anomen's. And that's a darn shame, because Anomen's story had so much more room for character development that it's truly a crime how the writers threw it away. They forced every character I ever created to say the only option that came even close to good roleplaying: "You're an idiot, Anomen."

And to think that some players actually have to cheat this in to get any sort of romance. Wes may have done the world a bigger favor than I could ever have imagined.
 

Blackfey

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Just downloaded Sola. I love him, and I'm not gay!
« Reply #41 on: May 22, 2003, 12:53:50 AM »
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What I don't like is how people presume others are bisexual if a sexuality isn't clarified. No offense anyone, but that's just presumptuous.

To presume that all Drow are bisexual because the person doing the presuming thinks he/she is more enlightened than the rest of us when doing so, or because we don't know for sure, is wrong.
Hmmm, I was trying to be clear about my ignorance on the subject. I said that I'd "originally thought" but later realized it didn't fit with Viconia's behavior. I certainly never meant to imply that I was "more enlightened" than anyone else. Not sure how that came across.

Blackfey

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Just downloaded Sola. I love him, and I'm not gay!
« Reply #42 on: May 22, 2003, 12:56:45 AM »
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I am sorry for you. I am so very, very sorry. I didn't even have anything to do with the creation or incorporation of Anomen, and I still feel guilt by proxy. Nobody should be forced through the Anomen romance, no matter their gender, sexual orientation or animal companion race.

Your sympathy is very much appreciated. Really. The one time I tried the "cheating with Anomen" strategy, it was pretty degrading.  

AvatarofInsolence

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Just downloaded Sola. I love him, and I'm not gay!
« Reply #43 on: May 22, 2003, 04:47:20 AM »
Personally, I don't see why sexuality is a big deal, especially not in this context. This is RP, and for those who have never gotten into deep tabletop sessions, sometimes your character says or does things you would never do in real life. So if you'd probably like the Sola romance if it wasn't "gay", try to RP the game as a female. Really the "ick" factor in the Sola romance was quite low as far as I'm concerned, and for the record, I'm a married straight man. As to why he's bi, who the heck knows? I could never figure out why my neighbor was gay, my ex-girlfriend was bi, or why anyone I know is straight. It's just one of those things.

Longinus

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Just downloaded Sola. I love him, and I'm not gay!
« Reply #44 on: May 22, 2003, 08:18:35 AM »
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"Real"? The next time I encounter Solaufein in the real world I'll be sure to ask him what he really believes. :-) More seriously, some people put "the game as originally presented" as a sort of canonical truth and highest goal. I put fun as the ultimate goal.
I don't agree with the sudden and drastic change in character. It's as if he isn't the same person and that is in fact the truth. I prefer continuity of character, not change without plausible reason.

Another thing: the Bioware Solaufein is classed as a fighter, nothing more. His identity is one of a warrior; his improved fighter/mage class status was unwarranted IMO.

Longinus

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Just downloaded Sola. I love him, and I'm not gay!
« Reply #45 on: May 22, 2003, 08:25:28 AM »
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What I don't like is how people presume others are bisexual if a sexuality isn't clarified. No offense anyone, but that's just presumptuous.

To presume that all Drow are bisexual because the person doing the presuming thinks he/she is more enlightened than the rest of us when doing so, or because we don't know for sure, is wrong.
Hmmm, I was trying to be clear about my ignorance on the subject. I said that I'd "originally thought" but later realized it didn't fit with Viconia's behavior. I certainly never meant to imply that I was "more enlightened" than anyone else. Not sure how that came across.
Sorry, I meant people in general. The Bioware Solaufein is clearly a heterosexual male, but because he didn't tell everyone that--because he didn't make his sexuality clear in unambiguous terms--people are prone to presume he's bisexual.

That conclusion is drawn far too often when it comes to video game characters.  

Kiki

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Just downloaded Sola. I love him, and I'm not gay!
« Reply #46 on: May 22, 2003, 05:30:29 PM »
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The Bioware Solaufein is clearly a heterosexual male, but because he didn't tell everyone that--because he didn't make his sexuality clear in unambiguous terms--people are prone to presume he's bisexual.
What? He says he and Phaere were lovers, that's all. Doesn't say if he's had another male (or other females, for that matter) as a lover. And having found out this week that an old female friend of mine--we've been friends since we were 10--is in love with another woman, after having given no previous indications aside from luckless relationships with men, I wouldn't necessarily assume anything about his sexuality.  

Longinus

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Just downloaded Sola. I love him, and I'm not gay!
« Reply #47 on: May 22, 2003, 05:52:39 PM »
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The Bioware Solaufein is clearly a heterosexual male, but because he didn't tell everyone that--because he didn't make his sexuality clear in unambiguous terms--people are prone to presume he's bisexual.
What? He says he and Phaere were lovers, that's all. Doesn't say if he's had another male (or other females, for that matter) as a lover. And having found out this week that an old female friend of mine--we've been friends since we were 10--is in love with another woman, after having given no previous indications aside from luckless relationships with men, I wouldn't necessarily assume anything about his sexuality.
This is exactly to kind of presumptuous thinking I'm talking about. No offense, but you cannot conclude that a person's bisexual if they haven't labelled themself heterosexual. Besides, this is a videogame character.

All we know about the Bioware Solaufein is that his former lover was a women. You can't brand him anything else unless new evidence arises. Is there any proof that he swings both ways? No. The lack of proof doesn't mean he's bisexual either.

We can't assume anything *more* about his sexuality.

Caswallon

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Just downloaded Sola. I love him, and I'm not gay!
« Reply #48 on: May 22, 2003, 07:02:51 PM »
Well.
Then we can ask:
Is it possible for Sola to fall in love with a woman?
Definitely yes, as the affair with Phaere shows.
Is it possible for Sola to fall in love with a man?
Maybe. We have no supporting evidence, but also nothing to the contrary.
Summed up, this would mean:
Solaufein is either heterosexual or bisexual. Which of both is up to one's fantasy.
The only thing that is not possible is that he's purely homosexual.
I see no compelling reason why a bisexual Solaufein should not be a possible interpretation of the character. Not the only one, and maybe not the most apparent, but possible. As you say, it's a videogame character. It's up to us to flesh him out, he can't complain, and no one's going to come and tell us "the truth" - as that truth about his history and character doesn't exist. If we want to go any further than the informations that the game gives us, we *have* to make assumptions. One could say that this or that contradicts a certain information from the game, but one can't just restrict Solaufein's personality to those informations if one creates a mod that does more than repeat his dialogue lines.

That said, it is up to the player to decide. In one game, the PC is either male or female. So if you play a female character, there is no reason why she should suppose Solaufein to be attracted to men. In a certain game, only one possibility comes true, and the other one simply doesn't exist.
What I want to say: You're not forced to recruit a bisexual Solaufein.

Cas
« Last Edit: May 22, 2003, 07:10:53 PM by Caswallon »

L_Jonté

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Just downloaded Sola. I love him, and I'm not gay!
« Reply #49 on: May 22, 2003, 08:58:35 PM »
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Your sympathy is very much appreciated. Really. The one time I tried the "cheating with Anomen" strategy, it was pretty degrading.
Any relationship with Anomen (through cheats or not) is degrading.  As written, he's an abusive, arrogant and supremely selfish.  Better the PC be celibate than with him.

But then, my loathing of Anomen is already well known.   B)  

 

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