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Author Topic: PC dying doesn't end game.  (Read 6920 times)

Offline Andyr

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PC dying doesn't end game.
« on: April 08, 2003, 09:42:49 AM »
When the PC dies the game doesn't end. I'm assuming that this is because in IWD2 you don't lose until your entire party dies.

While its not a major issue, I think if possible when the player dies the game is over. Just to fit in with the story, etc.....  :)  
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AvatarofInsolence

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PC dying doesn't end game.
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2003, 02:03:27 PM »
Actually, I'd kinda like being able to ressurect the PC for once...
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Zhen Dil Oloth

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PC dying doesn't end game.
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2003, 02:16:23 PM »
Agreed.

I hate the fact that the game ends when the PC dies.

It would be nice if your "friends" could raise you.
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Caedwyr

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PC dying doesn't end game.
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2003, 02:35:46 PM »
The PC dying a permanent death is something of a major plot point though.  
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Offline Andyr

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PC dying doesn't end game.
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2003, 03:13:24 PM »
I think that the PC dying should end the game.

When you die in BG1/BG2 you get the cutscene of your body dissolving, and going to the Bhaal symbol- on death your essence merges with Bhaal. If you finished BG1 you see the room with statues, some think (myself included) that each represented a Bhaalspawn and the statues crumble with that Bhaalspawn's death (in the cutscene, Sarevok).

In short because of your special divine nature I don't think you should be able to be brought back from the dead.

Plus, since you're playing the game as the PC, it makes a bit more sense roleplay wise. Even if your party could ressurect you.
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Offline weimer

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PC dying doesn't end game.
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2003, 12:54:16 AM »
There are arguments for and against this.

"All Bhaalspawn turn to dust when they die and never come back ..." -- Yeah, that's sure true for Imoen and Sarevok.

I could certainly make it an install-time option. Somebody remind me about it when we're getting closer to shipping.  
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Offline Andyr

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PC dying doesn't end game.
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2003, 04:04:04 AM »
Thinking about it, can you raise Imoen and Sarevok from the dead in SoA/ToB?
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AvatarofInsolence

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PC dying doesn't end game.
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2003, 04:17:28 AM »
To put it succinctly, Yes.
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Offline Andyr

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PC dying doesn't end game.
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2003, 04:20:08 AM »
Hmmm. Maybe you should be able to raise the PC then. For consistency.

Sarevok you could get around by saying since he has a bit of your soul (and not his own Bhaalspawn soul) he can be raised. But Imoen though?
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Zhen Dil Oloth

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PC dying doesn't end game.
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2003, 08:52:16 PM »
I would understand if the game ends if the PC is destroyed, but other then that, your party members should be able to raise you.

That was the only reason why I kept Virgil around in Arcanum. Keep him supplied with ressurection spells, and you will never fall.

Mouhahahahahahhhahha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Offline Andyr

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PC dying doesn't end game.
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2003, 01:32:42 PM »
Yeah, I suppose. It's not really a major thing, and you can always reload if you don't want the PC to die.....  :rolleyes:  B)  :P  
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Sim

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PC dying doesn't end game.
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2003, 01:45:53 PM »
Quote
There are arguments for and against this.

"All Bhaalspawn turn to dust when they die and never come back ..." -- Yeah, that's sure true for Imoen and Sarevok.
But Sarevok did turn to dust when you killed him at the end of BG1, did he not?
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Caswallon

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PC dying doesn't end game.
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2003, 07:24:13 PM »
For the sake of consistency, why not make Imoen and Sarevok un-resurrectable (if that's a word) instead? :D
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Catalyst

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PC dying doesn't end game.
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2003, 10:05:37 PM »
Quote
For the sake of consistency, why not make Imoen and Sarevok un-resurrectable (if that's a word) instead? :D
While I think the game not ending when the PC dies is kinda cool, I honestly can't come up with a compelling story reason for this at all. It just doesn't fit. The only argument I can think of is that Imoen is somehow exempted from permanent death as well...for whatever reason.

Caswallon...I hope that smiley face means you're joking...that would be overcompensating in the wrong direction...I have to reload enough battles as it is!  :P  
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masteraleph

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PC dying doesn't end game.
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2003, 10:46:48 PM »
Well, Sarevok isn't a bhaalspawn any longer in TOB, really, so he should be resurrectable.  As for Imoen...just think of her as the exception to the rule...perhaps that could be her bhaalpower, the ability to cheat death?
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Caedwyr

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PC dying doesn't end game.
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2003, 12:46:42 AM »
I think the real reason that Imoen isn't unrezable is it would force way too many reloads since Immy tends to die alot.
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Kish

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PC dying doesn't end game.
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2003, 02:11:02 AM »
I think the reason Imoen isn't unraisable, is because if she was, everyone who played BG1 would say, "What?  Since when she can't be raised?"
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Caswallon

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PC dying doesn't end game.
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2003, 05:11:10 AM »
Second that -
I think the real reason why Imoen can be resurrected is that in BG1, Charname was the only Bhaalspawn in the party. Then came BG2, Imoen was made Charname's sister and a Bhaalspawn herself, but BW didn't bother to think about the implications. When ToB came, they had no reason to care about Sarevok either. At this point, the reason for "game over when Charname dies" was of very minor importance (it is never explained in BG2, so player's who didn't play BG1 had almost no hint at what's happening in the "dissolving hand" scene).

Catalyst: I feared that solution wouldn't be very popular. :P Barring gameplay inconveniences, however, I really think it would be the best solution to keep the story consistent.
Though I don't expect that the idea will make it into IWG (or other mods, if I don't write one myself). :D

Caedwyr: On my computer, she tends to stay alive. B)  
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Offline Andyr

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PC dying doesn't end game.
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2003, 07:59:25 AM »
Quote
Caedwyr: On my computer, she tends to stay alive. B)
Best way to be!  B)  
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Delvar

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PC dying doesn't end game.
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2003, 09:33:05 AM »
Well since Imoen wasn't supposed to be able to actually join the PC in SOA nobody really thought about what should  happen to Immy if she dies. That and the fact if she died in Bg1 nothing would happen so they couldn't just shove in imoen turning to dust in BG2.
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MagusWizardo

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PC dying doesn't end game.
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2003, 06:14:33 AM »
The following is based on information I`ve read about the net over the past year and a half (since I joined Ironworks), so might not actually be "fact" per se... but it sure makes sense. :)

Why doesn`t Sarevok turn into dust when he dies in TOB ??
 He doesn`t have enough Bhaalspawn essence in him anymore to be affected by the taint. Also, the gods probably think he's merged with the Bhaal essence in the abyss enough times already This can also explain why the Five don`t want him, his essence is already where they want it.

Why doesn`t Imoen dissolve ??
 The taint of Bhaal affects all of the Bhaalspawn in different ways (other than the death = dissolve thing)... you get the Slayer, the Five all get lowsy AI... maybe in Imoen, it has manifested itself to defy the laws of the Bhaalspawn, and allow itself to be called back to Imoen, thus letting her be resurected.  
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Offline Andyr

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PC dying doesn't end game.
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2003, 08:51:53 AM »
Quote

Why doesn`t Imoen dissolve ??
 The taint of Bhaal affects all of the Bhaalspawn in different ways (other than the death = dissolve thing)... you get the Slayer, the Five all get lowsy AI... maybe in Imoen, it has manifested itself to defy the laws of the Bhaalspawn, and allow itself to be called back to Imoen, thus letting her be resurected.
Yeah, but that's still a bit of a cop-out answer.
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Offline Quitch

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PC dying doesn't end game.
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2003, 11:09:51 AM »
I fail to see the problem.  Is this, or is this not a conversion of BG2 to the IWD2 engine?  If yes, then the PC dying should end the game, if not, then it doesn't matter and people should stop pretending this is a BG2 conversion.
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butterfly

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PC dying doesn't end game.
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2003, 01:54:50 PM »
Quote
I fail to see the problem.  Is this, or is this not a conversion of BG2 to the IWD2 engine?  If yes, then the PC dying should end the game, if not, then it doesn't matter and people should stop pretending this is a BG2 conversion.
If you have game that looks exactly like BGII except when the pc dies the game does not end. Is this game not BGII? I think it is hardly a defining characteristic of BGII.

qwb
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Offline Andyr

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PC dying doesn't end game.
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2003, 02:00:26 PM »
Quote
I fail to see the problem.  Is this, or is this not a conversion of BG2 to the IWD2 engine?  If yes, then the PC dying should end the game, if not, then it doesn't matter and people should stop pretending this is a BG2 conversion.
Well, the thread sort of went a bit OT when the Sarevok/Imoen discussion came along.
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