Author Topic: Improved Ilyich: Patrol or Ambush?  (Read 1095 times)

kozand

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Improved Ilyich: Patrol or Ambush?
« on: March 16, 2003, 11:18:40 AM »
I read Ilyich readme.txt. There we are asked to tell the developer which is easier to beat: Old versions' fixed ambush position or patrolling Ilyich goons?

I will analyze the situation.

I play with a cavallier PC. My playing style relies heavly on combat/offensive-defensive evocation/necromancy spell casting. Inquisitors, fighter/druids, fighter/mages ect.

Ambushing Ilyich.
What is bad for party: Ilyich and his goons attack u all together. Combine this with Ilyich's slow party ability and u get a tough fight. Also distrupting cleric goon's casting to prevent him summoning fallen deva is crucial.

What is good for party: U can cast area affect spells. If u have TDD installed, Jaheira can cast cloud of pestilence. U can hit them with fireball ect.

Comment: But they come after u. They drink potions of superior healing or whatever, they slow u and hit hard. U cannot deal all of them at the same time (besides u are slowed), they can surround u. U can retreat and deal them 1 or 2 at a time (it is not cheesy, u are slowed). The corridor which u came thru is wide enough to allow them attack u two at a time. Even crossbow user can hit u. Library room is both big and with all its furniture it is a maze like chamber. This means yes u can hit and barely run, u can play cat-mouse game but u still have a tough fight in your hands (u are slowed but maze helps u). I think both Ilyich goons and u have the same chance for defating your opponent.

Patrolling:
What is bad for party: If u attack they all begin to chase u (even offscreen oppenents track u).

What is good for party: Just hide behind that door which opens to the library.

Comment: It is too easy. 1) Ilyich's patrolling goons take their time to chase u. Because they are scattered. Coming altogether wastes their valuable time. But in Ambush version they can quickly act and chase u. Because they are not scattered while waiting u as a group, and the northern corridor of the library (the corridor leading to Ilyich goons' waiting area) is wide enough to let them come. 2) U just close the door and Ilyich goons don't open the door! They wait u slaughter their comrades one by one as u let them one by one! Besides distrupting fallen deva summoning is not crucial. Because even if the door becomes stuck because there are 2 monsters in the line, the narrow space force them to wait in single file formation. This means u can deal with them. Basically kill one, flee while taking advantge of narrow maze like sewer corridors, trace back your steps to the mineral deposit cavern, spread those goons up, find a secure place in that huge dungeon, rest and combat resets. Trace back remaining goons, if u face f-deva run again. Rest once more, come back when she is unsummoned ect. Too cheesy. Yes a ST and 3 war dogs spawn each time u rest. So what? Pause game when u kill an Ilyich goon, loot his items, done them. Kill poor ST with superior equipment just looted. Attack again. Too easy.

result: Patrolling Ilyich goons does not improve Ilyich anymore. Yes it is still harder then original SoA Ilyich but it is not much of a challenge anymore. Well at least not for my cavallier PC. I never played a mage so I dunno what happens then.

Solution: 1 For Ambush method:

Denying party using their combat cloud/burst (fireball/cloudkill) effects is NOT fair. I believe an optimal fight should allow party to use its capacity to full extend and still it should be challenging. A good example is Improved Irenicus, shattered one sequence. Bad example: Kuroisan, but it is worth for the katana (he is one man and should be challenging still).

a) Ilyich goons should cast a wizard eye. Just where corridor opens to the room they are waiting to trigger their ambush trap. Ever played earlier versions of Ilyich? I am talking about that room with many containers. Now this wizard eye is close enough to allow party members to aproach to the room and cast their offensive spells. It will also alert Ilyich goons so they will begin to aproach immediately, even while u are casting spells. But Ilyich talk will trigger and pause the game. U wil have time to recheck where to put party fighters to cover casters' escape (meanwhile u will get that nice dialogue since skipping is not feasible anymore!). Ilyich and goons will still take damage but u won't be able to hit them with area effect spells a second time. Now it is time for dog fight. I repeat wizard eye should NOT patrol the area. Wizard eye should not be found in the library. For sake of equity, party should be able to aproach, attack once and flee.

B) U cast fireball ect. Ilyich and goons, all of them should attack and chase u immediately. Cleric should not wait for deva summoning. He should cast it at close range so deva can chase u immediately too (and meanwhile u are feeling so stopping and disrupting deva summoning is harder). Therefore, no sitting in the cloudkill and waiting your party show its face while Ilyich taking poison damage cheesiness will be gone. No cheating here. Basically, cast zone of sweet air and track the caster improved dragon AI.

Solution 2 For Patrolling.
Simply allow Ilyich goons open the closed door and follow u. But this is still cheesy. They cannot swarm u in the narrow corridor. U can still escape and rest (because the maze here is also very complex making to leave enemy behind easier). Hunt them on by one. Besides why Ilyich should want to devide his superior forces? This is not an optimal tactic and ironically Ilyich hints this while speaking with u.

result: Go for Ilyich goons' fixed ambush position. But goons should drink potions of healing and start to chase the party immediately.
                   

Feran

  • Guest
Improved Ilyich: Patrol or Ambush?
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2003, 11:15:03 AM »
Please use the word "you".

Anyways, it's luck and patience. You never know exactly where Ilyich's goons are positioned at the time, and if you get lucky and can kill an easy one you can win. Your win was based on luck.                    

kozand

  • Guest
Improved Ilyich: Patrol or Ambush?
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2003, 04:47:53 PM »
I don't think it is luck. I think I explained this already.

Or rather patrol idea increased my luck favorably to beat them easly.
                   

 

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