Pocket Plane Group
Friends and Neighbors => Weimer Republic (WeiDU.org) => Solaufein => Topic started by: weimer on October 14, 2002, 05:19:48 PM
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I am planning on biting the bullet and restructuring my mod offerings.
Proposal:
Solaufein will now contain *just the Solaufein romance*. In addition, you may talk to Solaufein in-game (or perhaps at install-time) and disable (1) the Bodhi abduction and (2) the Eclipse fight [which is already avoidable, but hey] if you really want to.
A new "Tactics" mod will be introduced, containing: (1) Ilyich, (2) Ritual, (3) all tactical components from Solaufein, individually selectable at install-time. Previously "lumped together" components like the infamous "additional tactical encounters" will now be split apart.
WeiDU's interface will change minorly for mods with more than, say, five components: you will have the options like "upgrade all installed components" or "install all uninstalled components" or "uninstall all installed components" or "ask me individually about everything". This will make installing this new tactics mod take less than an hour. :-)
Comments? Suggestions? Does anyone actually care?
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Oh oh oh... I care. :) Yes please to all of the above. I always forget which mod contains what. Grouping the stuff like that would help greatly.
Thank you very much. :)
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Will you add Valen also? Optional of course.
I like the idea of all the mods in one file. It beats downloading all the mods seperatly
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I think that would be wonderful... At least then you know what to prepare for after taking that Celestial Fury blade...
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Solaufein will now contain *just the Solaufein romance*.
I don't know, Wes. I think as a "marketing" move, putting a ton of stuff inside Solaufein HAS been a good thing, and exposed people to components from "lesser-known" mod authors, who might have had trouble convincing lots of people to download a "relatively minor" addition to the game (or one that certain mod site webmasters might decree is "not a mod" at all and not link to.)
I think I was recently campaigning for you to lump MORE in, for an UberWesMod. BG2 According to Weimer. Whatever.
In addition, you may talk to Solaufein in-game (or perhaps at install-time) and disable (1) the Bodhi abduction and (2) the Eclipse fight [which is already avoidable, but hey] if you really want to.
Blah blah fourth wall blah blah don't do this. I may have argued with the always-abduct policy, but I'd rather that be something YOU control, not that the player controls. (See "Screw you, you can't shut off the Kelsey/Imoen romance, not really" for more on Compton's view of how much the player/PC should be able to control things that they have no business controlling in the gameworld.)
A new "Tactics" mod will be introduced, containing: (1) Ilyich, (2) Ritual, (3) all tactical components from Solaufein, individually selectable at install-time. Previously "lumped together" components like the infamous "additional tactical encounters" will now be split apart.
This makes good sense.
WeiDU's interface will change minorly for mods with more than, say, five components: you will have the options like "upgrade all installed components" or "install all uninstalled components" or "uninstall all installed components" or "ask me individually about everything". This will make installing this new tactics mod take less than an hour. :-)
With the Bioware Flirt Pack installer likely to have 16 components minimum, yes, I'd love to see "install/deinstall all."
[!--EDIT|jcompton|Oct 14 2002, 07:14 PM--]
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I think this is a good idea, Wes. Putting everything together in one "BG2 according to Weimer" mod would work too...but as long as the mod is named Solaufein Romance, I'd much rather see the Solaufein Romance Mod actually be entirely about Solaufein, if not entirely about romance.
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Wes, I like the way things are now. I don't mind change, but this seems like a lot of work for you with very little difference to the end user. I think most people download all your mods, try them out, keep what they like and unistall the rest. As a point of reference, I don't like the Imp. Ilyich or Spell 50 mods. However, I live and die for Sola, Ease of Use, Item Upgrade and Ascension. I been using Sola since version 13 or 14, why the big change now? I can dowload all four mods and install them in less than 30 minutes now. How much time will this new proposed method save?
Also, I disagree with breaking out the tactical encounters. I cursed your name many a time until my tactics simply got better. I learned to buff up and prepare for combat. There must be almost two dozen different additional tactical encounters by various authors, more if you count the imp. guarded compound, twisted rune, etc. Honestly, I doubt I would have installed a third of them if given a choice. Looking at the list now, I wouldn't remove a single one. Every encounter has its own unique challenge and stategy. Don't forget your classic response to users struggling with a certain encounter: lower the difficulty and don't be afraid to use Ctl-Y.
I would much rather see you focus your talent on finishing the Ritual and adding a few choice items to Item Upgrade.
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Yes, I care and yes, please do what you are planning. Most of what is currently in 'the Solafein mod' has absolutely nothing to do with Solafein.
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Solaufein's abduction by Bodhi (even if PC wasn't romantically involved with Solaufein) was realised under the idea that Solaufein is really something (if memory serves me right). Why should this be changed?
Generally, I agree with jcompton's comments. Though I have been selfish myself in the past asking for something to change, I do think that the creator is the only one to decide what his work would or wouldn't involve, and how this can be done.
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YES ,split the additionell encounters into little pieces that would be perfect :)
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I like your mods. I have them all installed with the exception of Spell50. Either way you decide to go with this, I am probably going to keep them all installed. It would be convenient when updating versions to only have to do it twice instead of 6 or 7 times, but it's not a huge big deal to me, personally, either way.
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Would it be too much to ask for a tweak in one the of the encounters. I like the way the beholders are made harder, or rather more intelligence. This made the both beholder's lair quite a challenge.
How about removing the elder's orb ? The whole reason the beholder's lair was easy was due to that cloak. Without that cloak, it is quite a challenge. Add more regular beholders, but no elder's orb.
Just my opinion.
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Thats great, but if its not to ask too much could you also include a list of the files that are altered by each mod and also a compatibility list like: also works well with this mod, seems to have problems like x and y with that one".
That IMHO would be perfect.
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"Don't fix what isn't broken."
I would say keep what you have, and move on to create more. As long as people can get their hands on the goods, why complain about 'how' they get their hands on it?
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Blah blah fourth wall blah blah don't do this. I may have argued with the always-abduct policy, but I'd rather that be something YOU control, not that the player controls.
Jason, you mentioned Solaufein's breaking of the fourth wall before, and I'm confused. Do you see the mod breaking that wall by allowing the player control over certain elements of the game? Because I certainly don't recall any more obvious instances. It's not as if Sola walks around blathering, "Yeeees o' omnipresent authority figure?" :rolleyes:
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Jason, you mentioned Solaufein's breaking of the fourth wall before, and I'm confused. Do you see the mod breaking that wall by allowing the player control over certain elements of the game? Because I certainly don't recall any more obvious instances. It's not as if Sola walks around blathering, "Yeeees o' omnipresent authority figure?" :rolleyes:
The old Solaufein board was pretty well chock full of the list of my objections tacked to the Temple of Rillifane's door. I have since forgotten many of them, I think. :)
Note that in this case, though, I'm saying it's fourth-wall breaking to (hypothetically, what Wes is proposing) be able to initiate dialogue with Solaufein and say
PC: "Gosh, Solaufein, I hope Bodhi doesn't abduct you."
S: "Then I shall endeavor to duck when she comes for me. I appreciate the concern you have shown for me in this matter, (CHARNAME). It reminds me of a poem..." (Solaufein sets DontAbductMePleaseBodhi flag.)
The obvious target is the significant use of non-Realms literature, from poetry to the Princess Bride. Now, mind you, I understand that some people are very very happy about this (someone on Usenet was just praising Wes for ascending to great-writerhood by knowing what to appropriate), but I notice it, that's all.
And you're quite right in that simply clicking on an NPC in BG1 could be far far more dramatically disruptive than just about anything Solaufein says or does.
[!--EDIT|jcompton|Oct 20 2002, 04:54 PM--]
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Errr, what is fourth wall breaking?
I think making a tactical mod is a good idea, as some components of ascencion/ solaufein seem somewhat misplaced.
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PC: "Gosh, Solaufein, I hope Bodhi doesn't abduct you."
S: "Then I shall endeavor to duck when she comes for me. I appreciate the concern you have shown for me in this matter, (CHARNAME). It reminds me of a poem..."
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!! :lol:
The obvious target is the significant use of non-Realms literature, from poetry to the Princess Bride. Now, mind you, I understand that some people are very very happy about this (someone on Usenet was just praising Wes for ascending to great-writerhood by knowing what to appropriate), but I notice it, that's all.
Ah, I understand the objection. Though the appropriation of great literary material doesn't bother me, I can see how you might find it annoying. I would have been far more offended if Solaufein spouted lousy original poetry than the classics. :P
[!--EDIT|jcompton|Oct 20 2002, 04:55 PM--]
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Errr, what is fourth wall breaking?
Simply put, it's when the game/the game's characters tell you or reveal to you that they are clearly not part of the fantasy world, but YOUR world. Things like:
"omnipresent authority figure" and in fact MANY BG1 select/confirm sounds, that are more addressed to you the PLAYER (the omnipresent authority figure) than you the PRIMARY PC.
"Bondari reloads" (this tells us that Bondari is, in fact, a video game character.)
"You can't handle the truth!" (and other movie quotes, obvious.)
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They've only been put in to lighten the mood methinks.
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They've only been put in to lighten the mood methinks.
That's quite right, that's why they were put in.
But if you lighten the mood by taking what I consider an immersive game and making it non-immersive, I get irritated.
It's amazing how much Bioware CHANGED from BG1 to SOA to improve immersion, both big things and little things... and then how systematically they destroyed immersion again in TOB.
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Fallout2 was Arch-full of easter eggs, (the bridge keeper.......) yet I think the universe was catching and immersive.
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It's amazing how much Bioware CHANGED from BG1 to SOA to improve immersion, both big things and little things... and then how systematically they destroyed immersion again in TOB.
I agree. While a bit of fourth wall breakage is fine by me, that whole scene with "Bondari reloads" really bothered me.
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SPOILER WARNING
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It caught me completely off guard when my PC turned into the Slayer and hacked him to bits. It was startling and irritating, as I had been very carful not to use the Slayer state. (I was running a Paladin after all. Dropping into Slayer mode would be unseemly for a lawful good charcter.) Then the "Bondari reloads" bit just added to the irritation. Yes, it was just a joke to lighten the mood. But I certainly didn't feel in on it, but rather that they were laughing at me, not with me. [_[
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Heh! That part really shocked me, so much in fact that I actually restarted from my last quick-save because I thought something had gone horribly wrong in my game! :lol:
I actually thought it was quite funny, but yes, it is a bit disruptive of the flow of the game. :o
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Yeah, I did a reload too and just went got the eyestalk myself. :rolleyes:
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Well I was playing as an evil P.C so needless to say when Bondari returned having "reloaded", I went slayer on his ass again.
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You know, I've tried running an evil character but I just can't do it. :(
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I actually thought it was quite funny, but yes, it is a bit disruptive of the flow of the game. :o
The part that I thought was funny was the self-referential geek humor. Bondari and crew were perfect portraits of what so many D&D characters used to be all about.
But that Slayer/reload thing... ugh. [_[
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The part that I thought was funny was the self-referential geek humor. Bondari and crew were perfect portraits of what so many D&D characters used to be all about.
Which means it still fails my purity test.
What the hell are they doing there? They're there to be totally out of place examples of first level characters managed by 10 year old boys. Yes, I was there, I remember, now can I have my freaking epic back before you ruin... wait, too late, thanks a ton, Bioware.
[!--EDIT|jcompton|Oct 22 2002, 10:55 AM--]
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Yes, I was there, I remember, now can I have my freaking epic back before you ruin... wait, too late, thanks a ton, Bioware.
Uh-oh, sound like somebody needs a cookie. ^_^
Fortunately, we neither of us need to revive Bondari and crew. We've seen the joke and can thankfully give it a miss next time through.
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The obvious target is the significant use of non-Realms literature, from poetry to the Princess Bride. Now, mind you, I understand that some people are very very happy about this (someone on Usenet was just praising Wes for ascending to great-writerhood by knowing what to appropriate), but I notice it, that's all.
Someone wouldn't say he was "very very happy" about it, but he did notice it, thought it was clever/cute, and inserted praise accordingly. OK, it was just a wee bit ironic because the reusing is so blatantly obvious (except for the Imoen banter, but by now I now where credit's due :-) but I still liked it.
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Someone wouldn't say he was "very very happy" about it, but he did notice it, thought it was clever/cute, and inserted praise accordingly.
I wasn't making an oblique reference to you, there are plenty of people who very actively like it and gush over it.
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Someone wouldn't say he was "very very happy" about it, but he did notice it, thought it was clever/cute, and inserted praise accordingly.
I wasn't making an oblique reference to you, there are plenty of people who very actively like it and gush over it.
My bad, then; chalk it up to my general overestimation of my importance. Moving right along... :-)
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Hmmm...my opinion would be, keep "additional tactical encounters" lumped together with the improved runies etc. Had I known I'd be bumping into Kuriosan (sp?) I most likely would have given Sanchudokku (sp?) a miss. Same with that cheating illusionist on the docks. And a valid point was made in a prior post: the mod makers are getting alot more exposure from the Sola mod than they do on there own. Personally, I would prefer an Uber mod with all your stuff whammed together. As for making Bohdi abducting Sola avoidable...well, it IS your mod, but I think it's a bad move. I find that it balances Sola recieving Tsuki no Ken later quite well. I am probably the worst tactician playing now, but I managed to slog through the undead sola fiasco reasonably well, despite having Bohdi take both Sola and Aerie (I wasn't TRYING to romance her, it was an accident). Perhaps key it to Sola's romance affect instead if you plan to change it, but don't give me a choice in the matter!
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but don't give me a choice in the matter!
I'm sorry, but I'm philosophically opposed to that sort of argument. The idea that I could globally make a better choice for everyone concerned than everyone could locally is abhorrent to me.
In fact, the idea that I should think *for you* is very high on my list of ultimate sins. If I could make every piece of all of my mods optional (thus allowing the user to pick exactly what she wants and no more), I would. In fact, this is already the case if you know how to program :-). Until then, however, I am quite content to make more or less anything people want to be optional, optional.
Even if I make something optional, you are not required to skip it. In my mind, suggesting that you "lack the willpower" or somesuch to make the right choices is insulting. To suggest that you somehow lack the ability to make the right choice for yourself boggles the mind. Especially when I have provided a framework in which you can try it one way, see if you like it, reload, and try it the other way.
Children are often unware of their own desires and best interests. Children are often tired and hungry ... and yet unaware of it. In such cases the parents step in and force decisions or behaviors on them. Fine, children can't really think for themselves or make rational evaluations.
You can.
My mods are not targeted at children.
[ For those of you keeping score at home, this is why Quitch's "solaufein fix" and Jason's "solaufein romance not invisible to kelsey" components don't bother me. This is also why I offered to host the "solaufein romance not invisible to others" mod option here on my sight. As long as the end-user gets to choose, I don't care. ]
Freedom is very, very precious. Please do not ask me to take it away from you.
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Jason has pointed out that my last message may make it seem like I am "agitated" at some poster in particular. That is not, in fact, the case.
I just honestly feel strongly about this. The only reason that I do not have a separate y/n question for every Sola lovetlk, as some have suggested, is that it would take me a bit of programming effort and the installation would be tedious. However, I include that (vaguely out of date) bit in the README specifically so that you can skip around by setting global variables. In my mind, it was the next best thing. And that section has been in the manual for ages -- this isn't some new fad of mine, this is something I have always believed.
Some have suggested that giving the user that much choice is not doing any favors for storytelling. I disagree. If you want the story as I inteded it, just say "yes" to everything. You have that choice.
This can be a difficult concept to grasp, but it is almost invariably better to get "the choice of X or not" than "X". Just consider a few examples and it starts to make sense: would you rather be forced to take a one-week expenses-paid vacation to the bahamas, or have that option? Sure, most of the time you'll take the vacation, so they seem the same. But the one time when your mother is dying in the hospital and you don't to leave the country, you'll be glad to have the choice.
Basically, the only time when "the choice of X" can be worse than "always X" is if the person is making the choices suboptimally. If you know for certain that I am always going to make better decisions than you are about what you like, than having me set "always X" is better than giving you "the choice of X".
As I started before, I don't believe that to be the case for anyone here. And since it is not, "the choice of X" is always the better call.
Consciousness and (the illusion of?) free will are some of our greatest gifts. Without the ability to think for yourself (and optionally change the world according to your will), consciousness is merely a curse that allows you to be aware of the fact that you are a slave. It is in making decisions that we define who we are.
I will not make decisions for you.
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The only reason that I do not have a separate y/n question for every Sola lovetlk, as some have suggested, is that it would take me a bit of programming effort and the installation would be tedious.
Did someone actually suggest this? Why on earth would anyone want that? There's almost always a dialogue option to tell Solaufein to stop bothering you, if all you want is to play with a silent fighter/mage.
The only reason I play BG2 now is to try new mods. I try to avoid learning anything about them until I actually play through. I hate knowing what's going to happen before it actually does, and would never play a mod that looked like:
Sola: In a couple of minutes, I'm going to talk with you about Phaere. Is that OK with you?
PC: No, I'm sick of hearing about her. What's the lovetalk after that?
Sola: Well, I thought I'd ask you to take a walk with me.
PC: I don't like walking. Why don't we just cut to the chase and jump in the sack?
Sola: As you wish, my friend.
If someone doesn't like the way you write the dialogue, they should just cut Sola dead in the first conversation. I also believe in encouraging people to not be sheep, but at some point you have to draw the line between preserving people's freedom to choose and absurdity. They always have the choice of uninstalling.
[!--EDIT|Kiki|Oct 27 2002, 04:06 AM--]
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The only reason that I do not have a separate y/n question for every Sola lovetlk, as some have suggested, is that it would take me a bit of programming effort and the installation would be tedious.
PC: No, I'm sick of hearing about her. What's the lovetalk after that?
Sola: Well, I thought I'd ask you to take a walk with me.
If someone doesn't like the way you write the dialogue, they should just cut Sola dead in the first conversation. I also believe in encouraging people to not be sheep, but at some point you have to draw the line between preserving people's freedom to choose and absurdity. They always have the choice of uninstalling.
OK, that was hilarious.
Anyway, the point was not to give all of these choices *in character*, but to allow the human player to pick them before the game started.
Clearly there is no *in-character* way of saying that you don't want to play with Kuroisan -- if you are a person living in the forgotten realms, Kuroisan either exists or he does not. However, as a human player sitting at a computer you can certainily decide that you don't want everyone's favorite acid kensai.
Let me see if I can make this even clearer. Imagine that there are only three possible options for the Sola mod, and the "default" configuration that gives the whole deal as I inteded it is "yes; yes; yes". Suppose that someone out there (let's call him "Jason", choosing a name uniformly at random) thinks that the story is paramount and that I should not even have options here -- I should just always make the mod install as if the user had said "yes; yes; yes".
That's great, and it makes Jason happy (and probably most others as well). However, let's consider another hypothetic user (call him "Gebhard", to pick another name uniformly at random). Gebhard would rather have "yes; no; no", and the story is not quite as important to him. If I follow Jason's suggestion, Gebhard will always be somewhat unhappy.
However, if I just leave the choice up to the user, everyone can be happy. Jason can say "yes; yes; yes" and get what he wants, Gebhard can say "yes; no; no" and get what he wants, and people who have no idea can just say "yes; yes; yes" and go with my default.
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My point was, I thought that Bohdi abducting Sola was a rather important element in the Imp. Bohdi setup. Allowing the player to tell Solaufein to NOT be kidnapped isn't very realistic, and breaks the story. If you feel you must give people a choice in this, it would make more sense to key it to the romance active thingy. Those who aren't taking Sola for the romance likely are the ones who don't want the undead Sola fight. Besides, when you romance one of the Bioware NPCs, you DON'T get the opportunity to say, hey, don't get turned into a vampire, ok? Besides, I hit the wrong buttons WAY to often anyway, and more choices makes it happen more often :P
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My point was, I thought that Bohdi abducting Sola was a rather important element in the Imp. Bohdi setup. ... Those who aren't taking Sola for the romance likely are the ones who don't want the undead Sola fight.
Hm, I think I would disagree with this. If you are in it just for the romance, you probably wouldn't want the inconvenience of the abduction. If you're in it because you're a glutton for punishment and want to fight a vampolich, you're probably smashing the space bar to get through the dialogue. This is a Weimer mod, right? People download stuff just to see how much suffering they can take.
Personally, I don't think the abduction is a vital part of the narrative structure; it just indicates that Bodhi and Weimer both think Solaufein is incredibly cool (which he is). (Unless future, yet-to-be-written dialogues will build on his attraction to the Dark Side.) Apart from causing an immediate sense of injustice at Chain Contingency: Spell Immunity x 3, Undead Sola didn't do much to (or for) me; he instantly got blown into bits by level-25 Anomen.
Gebhard would rather have "yes; no; no", and the story is not quite as important to him. If I follow Jason's suggestion, Gebhard will always be somewhat unhappy.
Pfft. Gebhard can take a Quaalude if he gets that worked up about it. Or he can tell Sola to shut up at any time, or go into the dialogue files and write his own narrative. At some point, the user gets what he/she gets.
Anyway, the point was not to give all of these choices *in character*, but to allow the human player to pick them before the game started.
I know ... it just occurred to me what an IC presentation of choices might look like, and it amused me.
Hey, if this is about making everyone happy, you'll never get there anyway. So you might as well just do what makes *me* happy. :)
[!--EDIT|Kiki|Oct 27 2002, 05:55 PM--]
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I will not make decisions for you.
A fine sentiment. So how come Sola invited Drizzt & Co. into Bodhi Dungeon II on me without a by-your-leave? I like the fellow but I have haven't loaded him since because I don't know what else he might come up with.
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I will not make decisions for you.
A fine sentiment. So how come Sola invited Drizzt & Co. into Bodhi Dungeon II on me without a by-your-leave? I like the fellow but I have haven't loaded him since because I don't know what else he might come up with.
You are confusing "Weimer will not make choices for you" with "Solaufein will not act in character" :-). I personally will not tell you side with Drizzt or force you to side with him in any way. However, Solaufein is completely in-character in asking a well-known hero who just happens to be another turncoat drow for his comments about the surface and his help with recent difficulties.
However (as above), if there were some easy way to make the interface, I would have had it so that you could skip that part if you wanted to. I guess what I really want is a Ken-like AI interface where you can say something like "Hey, I want the Sola mod, but drop the abduction and keep him quiet near Drizzt" or somesuch. Wouldn't that be great? Then I could license it to the BG2 people: "Hey, I want BG2, but give Aerie a backbone, give Anomen some introspection and ironic distance, give the game a coherent ruleset, etc..."
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Personally, I don't think the abduction is a vital part of the narrative structure; it just indicates that Bodhi and Weimer both think Solaufein is incredibly cool (which he is).
Pfft. Gebhard can take a Quaalude if he gets that worked up about it. Or he can tell Sola to shut up at any time, or go into the dialogue files and write his own narrative. At some point, the user gets what he/she gets.
Hey, if this is about making everyone happy, you'll never get there anyway. So you might as well just do what makes *me* happy. :)
Vital? It's not clear what is "vital" in the narrative structure. I did think it was a nice way to bring back some of the "brooding" and "darkness" elements that were perhaps overshadowed by Sola's "I'm a nice guy" demeanor.
GB could well go into the D files, but most users are not up to that. For example, Hendryk could have done that and comment out the Drizzt interjection (it's even commented) ... but did not. In some sense the "pick what you want" interface is already there ... if you are a programmer (as I mentioned above).
Anyway, the "make Kiki happy plan" is tempting ... if only because you've got the cutest avatar here (who could say no to a Miyazaki heroine? ... well, excluding the one from Umi Ga Kikoeru).
Remind me again -- what was your platform? Have Weimer forget about user choice and concentrate on writing more dialogue?
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However, Solaufein is completely in-character in asking a well-known hero who just happens to be another turncoat drow for his comments about the surface and his help with recent difficulties.
By this logic, you could turn the PC into just another NPC and let the game play itself. When it's over, the computer could let me know who won. My point here is that there is a difference in a computer RPG (as opposed to a live PnP game) between character development (Sola urging the PC to take Drizzt & getting ticked if I don't) and having an NPC from an add-in mod making decisions for me in non-mod parts of the game. That I would classify as a design choice rather than character development.
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My point here is that there is a difference in a computer RPG (as opposed to a live PnP game) between character development (Sola urging the PC to take Drizzt & getting ticked if I don't) and having an NPC from an add-in mod making decisions for me in non-mod parts of the game. That I would classify as a design choice rather than character development.
I'm confused. If you find all this so distressing, why not simply uninstall the mod? :huh:
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Remind me again -- what was your platform? Have Weimer forget about user choice and concentrate on writing more dialogue?
If it isn't Kiki's platform it's sure as heck mine! Even if my avatar is insufficiently cute. :P
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I'm confused. If you find all this so distressing, why not simply uninstall the mod? :huh:
I did uninstall. Here, I'm just complaining about the reasons for uninstalling what, in previous versions, was my favorite NPC.
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However, Solaufein is completely in-character in asking a well-known hero who just happens to be another turncoat drow for his comments about the surface and his help with recent difficulties.
game) between character development (Sola urging the PC to take Drizzt & getting ticked if I don't) and having an NPC from an add-in mod making decisions for me in non-mod parts of the game.
First, I don't see any part of the game as Non-Sola once you take him into the party. Same with Kelsey or Valen. Improved Ilyich may be limited to Chateau Irenicus, but that's hardly the norm.
Do you have much experience with tabletop rpgs? Sure, there are often "party leaders" or whatnot, but I have never seen an rpg party that follows the leader as blindly as the Friends-of-the-Bhaalspawn follow [CHARNAME] around. I don't find it very realistic at all. There are a number of places in the vanilla game where the NPCs strongly disagree with the PC: I think that number is *far*, *far* too small. ( And far too many of them are Jaheira being NG instead of TN).
I don't see any compelling reason for Sola to leave all of the decisions to the PC -- especially since Sola is very smart (high INT) and very self-assured (high CHR).
The argument you are making is fine at the level of "you, a human, playing a CRPG". If you don't want to play a CRPG where the NPCs make take an active role (rather than passively responding to your decisions), fine. That's the bit where you don't install the Sola mod (as you have done, so you're already all over this). Or the bit where I make my AI-installation system and you can say "Install Sola, but leave out his backbone". However, once you take on the role of your character *inside* the game, there's no reason to find Sola's behavior at all strange. Bodhi is a vampire matriarch that is terrorizing the city! Even if you don't care about smiting her, Sola does. Drizzt's life and heroism on the surface are clearly issues near and dear to his heart. Why wouldn't he take the time to talk to him directly?
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I have to agree, I think it adds a great deal to the realism of the game when characters make decisions for themselves. And really, I found Sola's conversation alot more interesting then running through the same dreary PC/Drizzt dialogue. ;)
[!--EDIT|Mael|Oct 27 2002, 09:01 PM--]
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First, I don't see any part of the game as Non-Sola once you take him into the party. Same with Kelsey or Valen. Improved Ilyich may be limited to Chateau Irenicus, but that's hardly the norm.
Do you have much experience with tabletop rpgs? Sure, there are often "party leaders" or whatnot, but I have never seen an rpg party that follows the leader as blindly as the Friends-of-the-Bhaalspawn follow <CHARNAME> around. I don't find it very realistic at all. There are a number of places in the vanilla game where the NPCs strongly disagree with the PC: I think that number is *far*, *far* too small. ( And far too many of them are Jaheira being NG instead of TN).
I don't see any compelling reason for Sola to leave all of the decisions to the PC -- especially since Sola is very smart (high INT) and very self-assured (high CHR).
The argument you are making is fine at the level of "you, a human, playing a CRPG". If you don't want to play a CRPG where the NPCs make take an active role (rather than passively responding to your decisions), fine. That's the bit where you don't install the Sola mod (as you have done, so you're already all over this). Or the bit where I make my AI-installation system and you can say "Install Sola, but leave out his backbone". However, once you take on the role of your character *inside* the game, there's no reason to find Sola's behavior at all strange. Bodhi is a vampire matriarch that is terrorizing the city! Even if you don't care about smiting her, Sola does. Drizzt's life and heroism on the surface are clearly issues near and dear to his heart. Why wouldn't he take the time to talk to him directly?
It's a non-Sola part of the game in the sense it happens whether he's in the party or not. I have no problem on earth with the whole party living or dying depending on how he does with Archryssa because that's a Sola-specific and wholly logical development. I could also quibble with it being "in character" for an NPC still relatively new to the group and completely new to the surface to be so assertive but that's all it would be; a quibble. The character argument is actually quite strong. As far as table top gaming goes, I've done some and my experience agrees with yours. No one follows anyone "blindly". I've seen staunchly unwilling-to-follow people literally foam at the mouth - some quantity of beer involved there. I also know that don't nobody else complain, you ain't gonna change it. Why should you? I simply am very strongly averse to being railroaded into things and I think you could have made the point in another way. Have him urge seeking Drizzt's help but turn the decision back to the PC. Then there's got to be a game variable which determines whether Drizzt shows up in Bodhi's lair or not. Use that to determine Sola's reaction. He could just get huffy, he could leave the party to join Drizzt, he could even turn hostile.
Ah, hell. This is really pointless because it's just a difference of opinion on where the line gets drawn between realism and playability - and you're the author. Have a good one.
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It's a non-Sola part of the game in the sense it happens whether he's in the party or not.
If Sola is not in the party, he won't convince Drizzt to help you. :-)
Despite desire, I don't really have enough free time to make all of the controversial parts (including this one) optional. However, if you are interested in trying the mod without that, open the file solarom\solaint.d with notepad and change the lines around #255 which initially look like this:
// Drizzt
INTERJECT c6drizz1 40 Sola_IJ26
== "SOLA" IF ~InParty("Sola")~ THEN @260
== "c6drizz1" IF ~InParty("Sola")~ THEN @261
== "SOLA" @262
== "c6drizz1" @263
== "SOLA" @264
== "c6drizz1" @265
== "SOLA" @266
== "c6drizz1" @267
== "SOLA" @268
== "c6drizz1" @269 = @270 = @271
== "SOLA" @272
== "c6drizz1" @273
== "SOLA" @274
== "c6drizz1" @275
== "SOLA" @276
== "c6drizz1" @277
== "SOLA" @278
END c6drizz1 38
So that they instead look like this:
// Drizzt
/* INTERJECT c6drizz1 40 Sola_IJ26
== "SOLA" IF ~InParty("Sola")~ THEN @260
== "c6drizz1" IF ~InParty("Sola")~ THEN @261
== "SOLA" @262
== "c6drizz1" @263
== "SOLA" @264
== "c6drizz1" @265
== "SOLA" @266
== "c6drizz1" @267
== "SOLA" @268
== "c6drizz1" @269 = @270 = @271
== "SOLA" @272
== "c6drizz1" @273
== "SOLA" @274
== "c6drizz1" @275
== "SOLA" @276
== "c6drizz1" @277
== "SOLA" @278
END c6drizz1 38 */
The /* at the beginning and the */ at the end mean "this is a comment". If you make these changes and re-install Sola, he will not say anything to Drizzt. I'm sorry that Sola's "assertiveness" rubs you the wrong way -- I hate to lose loyal players. As you have seen from some comments here, some others are fine with it.
Let me know if there are other major gripes you have with my mods -- it's possible that I'm doing a bunch of really stupid things and no one else has bothered to point them out.
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It's a non-Sola part of the game in the sense it happens whether he's in the party or not.
This very part of Sola mod is one of those I feel strongly it was a perfect one. I have been and still I am a defender of Weimer's decision to plan it that way.
When Solaufein meets Drizzt there is nothing more natural than Solaufein's little talking with Drizzt. Don't forget they are both Drows, the one living with the surfacers many a year now, while the other, Solaufein, is just at the begining of it. In my opinion, their little talk says a lot about Solaufein's "search in the darkness" while he's trying to establish a new life among the surfacers. Just from this aspect and only, Solaufein's initiative is something that adds to the story, his personal story.
I should say that when we were leaving Underdark, I was thinking that Solaufein ought to be the one who would talk to Drizzt. Thankfully, he did.
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I have to agree. I think it would have been awkward and strange for Drizzt and Solaufein ignore each other, as if seeing another Drow aboveground were an every day thing. And the exchange between the two is the perfect chance to give a little more insight into Sola as a character.
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Otoh, I find it quite implausible that Drizzt (who, by this point in his timeline, has fought several thousand drow assassins) is so unquestioningly trusting of a strange drow.
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But remember, the Solaufein Operating Manual says that "Solaufein brings out the best in everyone."
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But remember, the Solaufein Operating Manual says that "Solaufein brings out the best in everyone."
I can tell when I'm being picked on, but I'm not quite sure what this one is about. Is this a subtle jab that everyone seems smarter when Bantering with Sola?
Anyway, quite a few people dislike him in his interjections. Prejudice doesn't exactly abound, but I tried to keep it present.
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I had used that argument earlier about the Minsc banter, yeah. I wouldn't say everyone. I just wanted to re-use my own material. And one could also apply it to, say, the Shade Lord.
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GB could well go into the D files, but most users are not up to that.
Bah. I'm no programmer, but it seems like a fairly straightforward matter of replacing your dialogue with text of the user's choice, as long as the branch structure of the dialogues remain the same. But I haven't actually tried it, so maybe I'm wrong.
Anyway, the "make Kiki happy plan" is tempting ... if only because you've got the cutest avatar here (who could say no to a Miyazaki heroine? ... well, excluding the one from Umi Ga Kikoeru).
There you go. Problem solved. From now on, you may simply consult me whenever you get conflicting input, and I'll tell you what makes me happiest. :)
I wonder if there will be a sudden flood of cute avatars?
Remind me again -- what was your platform? Have Weimer forget about user choice and concentrate on writing more dialogue?
Absolutely. If I am re-elected as Chief Standard of Happiness, I promise to exert influence on Weimer to increase the content of the Solaufein mod.
When Solaufein meets Drizzt there is nothing more natural than Solaufein's little talking with Drizzt.
Agreed--there's nothing more natural for them to *talk* to each other, but I might prefer that Sola simply counsel the PC to work with Drizzt, as Jaheira does. I think it's A-OK when NPCs leave the party to attend to their own business, or if your decisions vex them, but I would prefer that they don't usurp your decision making authority. (And I seem to recall a certain mod author refusing to make decisions for players ...)
I don't see any compelling reason for Sola to leave all of the decisions to the PC -- especially since Sola is very smart (high INT) and very self-assured (high CHR).
Imoen has both high INT and high CHA, and the only time she makes a decision without your say-so is when she hucks a magic missile at Irenicus when you're fresh out of the dungeon (which is indeed vital to the narrative flow).
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I have to admit that the Drizzt/Solaufein scene irked me a bit too. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for party members giving me their opinion on everything I do and say and the people we meet. But when it deals with something that's not specifically his/her quest, they should be just that--opinions and not decisions. What made this scenario especially irksome was that Solaufein did this when he had been a party member for all of 30 seconds. Not that I wouldn't have been equally irked if say Jahiera, who's been with me since day one, did this but at least I could have rationalized it: a) Well ok, Jaheira's been with me a long time and knows how I do things, plus she's an iterfering busybody anyhow; B) Solaufein has been with us 30 seconds and already he's usurping my authority. What gives?!?
Kismet
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Anyway, the "make Kiki happy plan" is tempting ... if only because you've got the cutest avatar here (who could say no to a Miyazaki heroine? ... well, excluding the one from Umi Ga Kikoeru).
I surely cannot... (who catches mine? :P)
And if you used a Nausicaa's avatar, I'd be actually worshipping you :rolleyes:
:unsure:
ehm...
actually not, no one should DARE using such an avatar :angry:
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To me, Solaufein's initiative is equal to his eagerness to discover things for himself. Drizzt has some reputation in the world of the surfacers, and Solaufein knows it. Apart from that sort of admiration, he also feels the intimacy of the race.
And since we have talked it over, now, I want to ask why Solaufein's decision to ask Drizzt's assistance in the "Bodhi Show" has annoyed so many people! Is it because his action seems as if he is claiming the leadership of the group? or because no other NPC has ever done that before? or, because PC character is the god, and we should always consult the god before stepping forward?
Personally, I don't believe in any god, I didn't mind Solaufein's action in the least, and actually I enjoyed his dialogue with the Drizzt, and most of all the fact that it was him who introduced me to Drizzt, and not vice versa. It seemed more fair and realistic, and even more democratic.
There is only a single case in which I would had felt furious with Solaufein: if I was planning to fight Drizzt and his group, and have Drizzt's head for dinner. Well, I wasn't.
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I am also curious about this answer. In my experience when working with groups you almost never get total obedience unless it has all been discussed beforehand and is a strict requirement (e.g., you are part of a SWAT team). Sola and the PC never explicitly have that kind of discussion (actually, maybe I should go back and disable all of Sola's interjections if you picked the "call me Lord" option at the beginning, but that's about it) and I don't recall him agreeing to be a slave to the PC.
I can certaily see players who have gotten used to unquestioned authority over the bioware NPCs (who speak too infrequently to be realistic) being surprised at Solaufein. But I see his behavior, rather than that of, say, Cernd, as what would be the norm among a group of heros.
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Remind me again -- what was your platform? Have Weimer forget about user choice and concentrate on writing more dialogue?
Absolutely. If I am re-elected as Chief Standard of Happiness, I promise to exert influence on Weimer to increase the content of the Solaufein mod.
OK, as CSoH-in-training, what do you suggest I add to the Sola mod specifically? What would you (or anyone else) like to see him talking about?
[!--EDIT|weimer|Oct 29 2002, 05:20 PM--]
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What would you (or anyone else) like to see him talking about?
Speaking as anyone else...
1. The book/scroll that we discussed earlier. I'd really like to see that. I like the idea of the PC (for once) being able to take the initiative in a romance.
2. Is it possible to randomize the banters rather than having them roll out in alphbetical order?
3. Sola belonged to a high-ranking, rival house. He was well thought of there. We know that he doens't like to talk about his time with Phaere so much, but what about other relationships? Does our underdark Heathcliff have any family?
[!--EDIT|L_Jonté|Oct 30 2002, 01:53 AM--]
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1. The book/scroll that we discussed earlier. I'd really like to see that. I like the idea of the PC (for once) being able to take the initiative in a romance.
Is this some sort of self-help book? "Broody-Pants Drow and the Women Who Love Them Too Much"?
2. Is it possible to randomize the banters rather than having them roll out in alphbetical order?
I like this idea, too.
[!--EDIT|Kiki|Oct 30 2002, 02:09 AM--]
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OK, as CSoH-in-training, what do you suggest I add to the Sola mod specifically? What would you (or anyone else) like to see him talking about?
OK, I've been out of town for three weeks and was busy before I left, so I haven't touched the game in almost two months, let alone any new versions of Sola. Sorry if my requests are out of date; I know some of this was on your to-do list.
I would like to see a dialogue with the Master Wraith, preferably with Phaere. I'd also like to see more dialogue added after black ravens (though I'd prefer that Sola's conversations not give me flashbacks to taking the LSAT) so that people who finish the romance in SoA, as I did, still get some interaction with Solaufein in ToB. I'd like Sola to say something to the PC in the final showdown, especially something that justifies the ascension-to-godhood epilogues. More banter with other NPCs is always welcome.
Thanks for asking ... now get to work. :) (I can't believe you're in grad school and can find time to do all this.)
[!--EDIT|Kiki|Oct 30 2002, 03:14 AM--]
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To recycle one of my previous comments (and to use up another of these annoying duplicate posts), another dialogue idea might be to do some follow-up conversation on being vampirized by Bodhi, and to explore his ambition and dark side. Maybe also have some dialogue between Solaufein and Bodhi when you get to Throne of Bhaal, and have her try to convince him to join her again.
[!--EDIT|Kiki|Oct 30 2002, 02:31 AM--]
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Is this some sort of self-help book? "Broody-Pants Drow and the Women Who Love Them Too Much"?
OoooOOOOooo! Now that is an interesting idea... but no.
I suggested that the PC be able to buy (and then give) Sola a book of poetry. I was specifically thinking of Shakespeare's sonnet #29.
See the sonnet in question here. (http://www.shakespeares-sonnets.com/sonn01.htm#anchor029)
(I think I can actually hear Jason C. rolling his eyes from here.)
I'd also like to see more dialogue added after black ravens (though I'd prefer that Sola's conversations not give me flashbacks to taking the LSAT) so that people who finish the romance in SoA, as I did, still get some interaction with Solaufein in ToB.
Yes, yes, much and many! Conversations about life and everyday nonsense would be lovely. Does Sola think of matrimony, or just a lifetime of shacking-up? Do the Drow even marry? :blink:
I'd like Sola to say something to the PC in the final showdown, especially something that justifies the ascension-to-godhood epilogues.
Hmmm... I don't know about that. But maybe a glimpse into his internal struggle perhaps? Can he meet the PC's eyes? Are his own eyes pleading, resolute or unreadable? Is his expression stoic, or his body language tense? Hmm... ponder, ponder...
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I suggested that the PC be able to buy (and then give) Sola a book of poetry. I was specifically thinking of Shakespeare's sonnet #29.
I like that idea, and yes, that's a nice sonnet. In fact, it was one that my first boyfriend sent to me ... ah, first love. Too bad he turned out to be a jerk in other ways, but he did have good taste in poetry.
I'd like Sola to say something to the PC in the final showdown, especially something that justifies the ascension-to-godhood epilogues.
Hmmm... I don't know about that.
What I mean here is that in the epilogues, Solaufein says, "Why did I let CHARNAME go?" That line doesn't make sense because he doesn't say anything to try to sway you either way. There aren't even any Torment-like indications of Solaufein-trying-to-be-stoic. The least he could do would be to try to score some equipment. "Um, since you're going to be a goddess, I guess you probably won't be needing that Robe of Vecna anymore."
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I like the idea of the PC (for once) being able to take the initiative in a romance.
For once?
FOR ONCE?
Growl snarl flirting howl stomp TOB "confessional" lovetalk slam blam some people didn't bother playing long enough.
So don't give me "for once," missy.
[!--EDIT|jcompton|Oct 29 2002, 09:17 PM--]
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Ack! I surrender allready! :o
Jason, I have begun another game and I have managed a funtional install of Kelsey and I am giving him a fair try... but slowly.
When I said "for once" I was referring to the BioWare romance options, not other mods. Ya big goober! :rolleyes:
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When I said "for once" I was referring to the BioWare romance options, not other mods. Ya big goober! :rolleyes:
I'm calm now, no really.
I honestly don't understand why you would make such a distinction.
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I honestly don't understand why you would make such a distinction.
Because it's been a very long day and I am short on both sleep and caffine. :wacko:
[!--EDIT|L_Jonté|Oct 30 2002, 03:35 AM--]
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I suggested that the PC be able to buy (and then give) Sola a book of poetry. ... I like the idea of the PC (for once) being able to take the initiative in a romance.
I think what you meant, Lisa, is not that you want to initiate flirting but that you want to be able to give your romantic interest a token of your esteem. You *can* buy a necklace for Jaheira. And of course, for the practical Bhaalspawn who wants to get a unique present for that special someone, there are some nice gift ideas at Cespenar's Olde Gift Shoppe.
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I like the idea of the PC (for once) being able to take the initiative in a romance.
For once?
FOR ONCE?
Growl snarl flirting howl stomp TOB "confessional" lovetalk slam blam some people didn't bother playing long enough.
So don't give me "for once," missy.
Heheh! Some people go looking for troubles. :lol:
[!--EDIT|Aubrey|Oct 30 2002, 11:27 AM--]
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I think what you meant, Lisa, is not that you want to initiate flirting but that you want to be able to give your romantic interest a token of your esteem. You *can* buy a necklace for Jaheira. And of course, for the practical Bhaalspawn who wants to get a unique present for that special someone, there are some nice gift ideas at Cespenar's Olde Gift Shoppe.
Something like that. Though I don't play the female romances I do recall something about giving Jaheira a gift when my husband was playing.
I guess what I want is the ability for the PC to give something character specific to her sweetie. So for Sola it's a book of poetry. For Kelsey it might be stylish new mage robes or an enchanted abacus...
What a difference a decent night's sleep makes. :D
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I like the idea of the PC (for once) being able to take the initiative in a romance.
For once?
FOR ONCE?
Growl snarl flirting howl stomp TOB "confessional" lovetalk slam blam some people didn't bother playing long enough.
So don't give me "for once," missy.
/me urges JC to switch to decaf.
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Something like that. Though I don't play the female romances I do recall something about giving Jaheira a gift when my husband was playing.
Yes, there is the fun little locket sequence for Jaheira. Because it is flagged as a quest-critical item, she always gives it back to you when she leaves the party, so when she goes off to turn herself in, she hands it back and it's just sooooo sad.
Anyway. Gift-giving is silly simple and I imagine Wes would have no trouble implementing it if he so chose. There was some call to add gifts for Aerie, Viconia, and Anomen in the Flirt Packs, which will probably happen in later revisions.
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I like the idea of the PC (for once) being able to take the initiative in a romance.
For once?
FOR ONCE?
Growl snarl flirting howl stomp TOB "confessional" lovetalk slam blam some people didn't bother playing long enough.
So don't give me "for once," missy.
Now..where is that "Owned" picture?? :lol: :lol:
[img]http://feedback.blackisle.com/images/macro/radical.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image']
Oh well, this one will do just fine! :lol: :lol:
(just kidding :D )
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There was some call to add gifts for Aerie, Viconia, and Anomen in the Flirt Packs, which will probably happen in later revisions.
Since you said "later" revisions, does that mean the first round of flirt packs is finished? Or just that you're not going to get around to playing Santa in the first version?
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Since you said "later" revisions, does that mean the first round of flirt packs is finished? Or just that you're not going to get around to playing Santa in the first version?
The latter. Here's the likely sequence of releases:
v0.8 initial release: Aerie/Jaheira flirt packs
v0.9: Add Viconia, add a new Aerie epilogue (Ascend, re-wingify Aerie), add a new Jaheira flirt or two
v1.0: Add Anomen, potentially add a Viconia epilogue
So maybe around the 1.0 or 1.1 mark, Jahaboam will have other goodies for the other romance options.
v0.8 right now is waiting for me to finish a couple of Jaheira epilogues (one's done) and to implement the extra LT that determines which one you get. Soon, it will be out.
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I am also curious about this answer. In my experience when working with groups you almost never get total obedience unless it has all been discussed beforehand and is a strict requirement (e.g., you are part of a SWAT team). Sola and the PC never explicitly have that kind of discussion (actually, maybe I should go back and disable all of Sola's interjections if you picked the "call me Lord" option at the beginning, but that's about it) and I don't recall him agreeing to be a slave to the PC.
I can certaily see players who have gotten used to unquestioned authority over the bioware NPCs (who speak too infrequently to be realistic) being surprised at Solaufein. But I see his behavior, rather than that of, say, Cernd, as what would be the norm among a group of heros.
Here's my beef with the Drizzt/Solaufein dialogue:
1. Because I didn't pick up Solaufein until after I talked with Elhan, he literally had been in my party a minute real time and maybe an hour or two game time (I don't think you travel all that long before getting jumped by Drizzt). I realize, of course, that a lot of people will pick him up as soon as possible and this factor won't apply.
2. I love hearing the NPC's opinions on the people we meet and the decisions I make. I do wish they interjected more often. In this case, however, he doesn't just offer his opinion he goes ahead and makes what is technically a command decision (in that affects your fight with Bodhi). Admitedly, it's a fairly minor decision and one that most people would probably make anyhow.
It would be nice if you gave CharName the choice of saying something to Solaufein afterwards at least (or have Solaufein recognize that he might have stepped on some toes).
Sola: Btw, CharName, I hope you didn't mind me inviting Drizzt to help us.
PC: Solaufein, It's not that I'm not happy to have Drizzt come and help us out. But next time, before you go and do something like that again, let's just have a little group discussion first, ok?
Kismet
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All seem to boil down to a party leader having his/her ego seriously hurt. Why Solaufein is taking decisions while I am the leader?
Well, if that's the reason of so many protests against Solaufein/Drizzt's meeting, then it seems rather unimportant to me. Besides, doesn't anyone find annoying the fact all other NPCs seem like puppets obeying blindly PC character and his/her commands? The only exception, and the only one who felt "real" in many aspects is Kelsey. (Of course, he doesn't take decisions like Solaufein, but at least he doesn't look like a puppet either, as the rest NPCs.)
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Before the advent of Imp. Bodhi, I didn't like taking Drizzt because my party would always be pounding on Bodhi and then he'd sneak in, get the last blow, and get all the xp. The last time I played, I had to lock him out of the room to keep him from stealing all the credit. However, with Imp. Bodhi, I find that he's useful cannon fodder.
In any event, it's only a minor quibble, and certainly doesn't annoy me to the point of uninstalling.
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Kiki,
With Improved Bodhi-Bitch anyone can be useful! :)
Can you believe that poor Drizzt was killed by Undead Solaufein?
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That Drizzt encounter offers the perfect opportunity to provide the player with an in-game none-fourth wall breaker of a switch that'll determine whether Soluafein will continue with his player-overriding interjections. Maybe something like this:
*Solaufein turns, conversation with Drizzt concluded, features flushed with a beatific expression, clearly invigorated by this chance encounter with the one person within the Realms with whom he may claim a curious kinship; this swiftly falters and slips into uncertainty once he catches your eye.*
"Mayhaps...I have committed a faux-pas?"
1) Solaufein, It's not that I'm not happy to have Drizzt come and help us out. But next time, before you go and do something like that again, let's just have a little group discussion first, ok?
"Such a peculiar practice, this decision by committee, and one that would result in swift, ignoble death within the recesses of the Underdark, where deadly exigency demanded fleet wits complemented by decisive action. Nevertheless...I must remind myself that I am no longer there, nor head of any society now, and admittedly unfamiliar with Surfacer practices; therefore I shall strive to acclimatise, abide by your wishes and endeavour to restrain my impulses."
(set global ButtOutSola = 1 or whatever, place a check against this within any further interjections where he'd force a certain outcome and bypass these actions so the PC makes the decisions from now on)
2) No, that was fine, Solaufein.
(proceed as normal, allowing Solaufein to continue to make his own decisions)
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Can you believe that poor Drizzt was killed by Undead Solaufein?
Lolth has probably wanted Drizzt's head for a long time ... what better way for Solaufein to worm back into her good graces?
(set global ButtOutSola = 1 or whatever,
The dialogue here was a bit florid, but this seems like a nice idea, and I like the variable name. (By the way, does anyone know what the global variable I'mTooSexyForThisShirt does? I've always wondered.)
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As much as it would provide a "perfect" opportunity, it's not Solaufein. I would be happy to have such a switch outside the context of the mod, but there's no way he would agree to it in character.
Anyway, using WeiDU's --biff-str option, here's an exhaustive list of places where that variable appears:
BALDUR.BCS
IF
!Exists("BRUS")
!Exists("BRUS3")
Global("SpawnBrus","GLOBAL",1)
GlobalTimerExpired("MakeBrusWait","GLOBAL")
Global("ImTooSexyForThisBrus","GLOBAL",0)
AreaType(OUTDOOR)
Global("WorkingForAran","GLOBAL",0)
Global("WorkingForBodhi","GLOBAL",0)
THEN
RESPONSE #100
ClearAllActions()
CreateCreatureObjectOffScreen("BRUS3",Player1,0,0,0) // Brus
ActionOverride("brus3",StartDialogueNoSet(Player1))
END
BRUS3.BCS:
IF
Global("ImTooSexyForThisBrus","GLOBAL",1)
See([GOODCUTOFF])
THEN
RESPONSE #100
EscapeArea()
END
IF
Global("ImTooSexyForThisBrus","GLOBAL",1)
!See([GOODCUTOFF])
THEN
RESPONSE #100
DestroySelf()
END
GAELEN.DLG:
IF ~Global("ImTooSexyForThisBrus","GLOBAL",1)~ THEN REPLY #49835 /* ~Brus mentioned that you had a new deal to offer. What is it?~ */ GOTO 84
BRUS3.DLG:
IF ~True()~ THEN BEGIN 0 // from:
SAY #49690 /* ~I did nay think I'd be talkin' to you louts again, but I do what my uncle Gaelan says whenever I can.~ */
IF ~~ THEN DO ~SetGlobal("SpawnBrus","GLOBAL",2)
SetGlobal("ImTooSexyForThisBrus","GLOBAL",1)~ GOTO 1
END
That is, ImTooSexyForThisBrus is the same as IHaveSpokenToBrusAfterObtaining15000Gold.
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Anyway, using WeiDU's --biff-str option, here's an exhaustive list of places where that variable appears
Can WeiDU pick up my dry cleaning and wash my dishes, too? Seems like there's nothing it can't do. :)
That is, ImTooSexyForThisBrus is the same as IHaveSpokenToBrusAfterObtaining15000Gold.
Right, Brus, not shirt. Thanks!
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I'll put the --do_the_chores option on the TODO list, right after the --do_what_I_mean_not_what_I_said option.
The cute thing about the Right Said Fred variable is that it is insufficient. If you play your cards right, you can still spawn a score of Brus-copies before one of them makes contact and then they all disappear.
Did you see Spirited Away?
[!--EDIT|weimer|Nov 1 2002, 09:53 PM--]
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I'll put the --do_the_chores option on the TODO list, right after the --do_what_I_mean_not_what_I_said option.
Ah, the ever-accommodating Weimer. :) I'm looking forward to the other option, too.
Did you see Spirited Away?
I don't think it's gotten to my podunk town yet, but I did get Princess Mononoke in the mail today from Netflix. I also have the Macross boxed set that my friend P. insists I watch, but I've only watched the first ep so far and it just made me want to watch Battle of the Planets (the American series that ran when I was a kid, with the hero voiced by Casey Kasem, not the Japanese version that P. also inflicted on me but that I slept through because I don't understand a lick of Japanese).
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Any time I see Macross, I think of Macross Plus, which of course makes me think of my brilliant anime/game show crossover geekery joke, "It's more than Macross, it's Macross Plus!"
...but nobody else is gonna get that.
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kiki, you must get the miazaki collection, including porco russo, naausica, laputa, and lesser known ones like only yesterday...of course you have kiki delivery service....
i even have the series, complete sets of adventure boy conan, and famous detective holms...(the doggy version...hehehhe)
"Any time I see Macross, I think of Macross Plus, which of course makes me think of my brilliant anime/game show crossover geekery joke, "It's more than Macross, it's Macross Plus!"
...but nobody else is gonna get that. "
its not just macross, its robotech....giggle...
its more than macross plus, its macross 2....
hehehhehe.....
damn disney for getting spirited away, means release will be delayed for years....sigh... :( [_[ :angry: :huh:
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kiki, you must get the miazaki collection
OK, to continue a thread that has already veered into The Land Beyond Off-Topic (but I think its useful on-topic life has mostly ended, anyway) ... is there actually a collection of such items, and where might I get one? My usual source of relatively obscure items, and his brother the pirate, have failed to deliver on several Miyazaki requests.
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The cute thing about the Right Said Fred variable is that it is insufficient. If you play your cards right, you can still spawn a score of Brus-copies before one of them makes contact and then they all disappear.
Did you see Spirited Away?
Holy cow!!! I had Brus all over my screen!!!! It nearly happened in every game i played. There were like 30 Brus's on my screen. They all went away when i talked to one of them.
What caused this???
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I would guess that you somehow avoided contact with Brus the first time he was created, and the game kept seeing that ImTooBoredToUseAnOrdinaryVariableName was at 0 so it kept trying to spawn Bruses.
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kiki, you must get the miazaki collection, including porco russo, naausica, laputa, and lesser known ones like only yesterday...of course you have kiki delivery service....
Which one is "Only Yesterday"? I tend to know them by the Japanese names, but I want to make sure that I'm not missing one. (Brief Research)
Tonari no Totoro = My Neighbor Totoro
Kurenai no Buta = Porco Russo
Omoide Poro Poro = Memories Like Tears / Only Yesterday
Umi Ga Kikoeru = I Can Hear The Sea / Ocean Waves
Mimo Wo Sumaseba = If You Listen Closely / Whispers of the Heart
Kaze no Tani no Nausicaa = Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind
Laputa Mumble Mumble = Laputa: The Castle in the Sky
Lupin III: Castle Cagliostro = Lupin III: Castle Cagliostro
Mononoke-Hime = Monster Princess (or whatever they're calling it)
Majo no Takkyuubin = Kiki's Delivery Service
On Your Mark = On Your Mark
Pon Poko = Racoon Wars (or whatever)
Actually, a quick trip to http://www.nausicaa.net/miyazaki/films/ (http://www.nausicaa.net/miyazaki/films/) was helpful here.
I knew Grave of the Fireflies wasn't Miyazaki, but I didn't know it was Ghibli (of course, in retrospect it's clear). Similarly, I thought Pon Poko and Omoide Poro Poro were Miyazaki, but I'd believe that they aren't. I can suddenly feel better about not adoring Memories. Huzzah.
Anyway, back to work.
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"Omoide Poro Poro = Memories Like Tears / Only Yesterday"
its the one about the woman who comes back to her old home town, and rediscovers the childhood sweetheart she left behind..
kiki, what you need to get is the studio ghibli collection, 200 clams, but well worth it, it has
Tonari no Totoro = My Neighbor Totoro
Kurenai no Buta = Porco Russo
Omoide Poro Poro = Memories Like Tears / Only Yesterday
Mimo Wo Sumaseba = If You Listen Closely / Whispers of the Heart
Kaze no Tani no Nausicaa = Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind
Laputa Mumble Mumble = Laputa: The Castle in the Sky
Lupin III: Castle Cagliostro = Lupin III: Castle Cagliostro
Mononoke-Hime = Monster Princess (or whatever they're calling it)
Majo no Takkyuubin = Kiki's Delivery Service
my god, its good, good subtitle, no sicky dubbing...
it also has grave....miazaki was not the director, but he had a heavy hand in production, it has his touches all over it....its pretty obvious he was heavily involved, just looking at it...
mia did a lot of work on stuff attributed to other people, and of course not all the stuff that came out of ghibli is his....
i need to get
On Your Mark = On Your Mark
Pon Poko = Racoon Wars (or whatever)
Umi Ga Kikoeru = I Can Hear The Sea / Ocean Waves
adventure boy conan and famous detective holms were two tv series he did when he was just starting out, and just built ghibli....i got them cause i religiously buy miazaki....
to spawn many many brus, simply clua in over 20000 gold right after leaving galen bael's meeting....
heheheh....
these days i have been raving about a tv anime series called
Noir....
ever seen it? bad quality animation, really piss poor sub by a bunch of hong kong translaters so painful it breaks your teeth, but the plot transforms it to sheer anime god-ness in complexity and sheer storytelling...
highly recommend part 2, have yet to see part one, but get it....will be widely released by ad visions next year....
yes, i am an otaku, and have even seen the "otaku no video"....
hehhehehheheheh....
my collection is obscene, costed me more than my car...by a lot... :blink: :D ;) :lol:
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I'm assuming you have it already, but if you don't I can put:
-rw-r--r-- 1 weimer 69104120 May 30 12:06 OnYourMark.mpg
up for download. It's the standard net-circulated MPG of On Your Mark. I'm sure someone out there has re-done it in DIVX or whatnot, but I'm behind the times. It's 6 and a half minutes.
I know well what it is like to adore a series despite a pathetic translation -- I have fond memories of Shinsen Gumi's original horrible translation of Tenkuu no Escaflowne (that series is incredible, don't judge it by the first episode) ... a translation that was so bad, there were a number of times I could do better in my head ... and I don't particularly speak Japanese. :-)
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wes, buddy, I HAVE ESCAFLOWNE... dubbed and translated by ad visions, its been out on dvd for about a year now, THE ENTIRE SERIES.... go get it...also out in dvd is Neon genesis...including end and rebirth, the theatrical versions....hehehehheh.....
yes, i even have the bad movie version of escaflowne..
but hey, i knew you liked neon genesis....
ritual
instrumentality,,,
unit o, unit 1, unit 2...
the angels will come and get you....
heheheh.....
why not add a easter egg to ritual??? like the famous bioware egg, where if you name your pc "drizzt" and lower rep to 5, he comes by and talks to you????
if you name your pc azuka, or keichi, or pen-pen (i like pen pen!!) and finish the ritual, you get as a reward a progressive knife,
say a +5 dagger with vorpal effects.....
but both evangilion and escaflowne are out on dvd, with good sub and dub.....
yes, i know you are drooling, so did i when i saw them, and got them all...hehheheh :rolleyes: :D :P ;)
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wes, buddy, I HAVE ESCAFLOWNE... dubbed and translated by ad visions, its been out on dvd for about a year now,
I think you mistake me. Yes, I've seen the entire series. Four different translations (but not the one shown on american television). But when it first came out (this was about ... 7 years ago) the only fansub translation available was, shall we say, suboptimal. :-)
There is already an Easter Egg if you name your PC Drizzt.
I'm actually not particularly interested in adding code that will be seen "very rarely". I would rather structure my mods so that my effort goes into things that everyone can enjoy.
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it also has grave....
I didn't care for Grave of the Fireflies. There was never any acknowledgment that the Japanese had started a war of aggression, and that the chickens were coming home to roost. It was just, oh, poor us, how did this horrible poverty and famine happen to us? Just another example of the Japanese whitewashing history.
[rant]
Considering the suffering and atrocities they inflicted on others, the Japanese had it coming. Ever hear of the Rape of Nanjing, which has been officially excised in Japanese history books? In the space of several weeks, they raped, tortured, and murdered approximately 300,000 civilians. They used Chinese men for bayonet practice, raped 20,000-80,000 women, and nailed people to boards and drove tanks over them. It was a bit difficult for me to summon much sympathy.
I'm starting (?) to sound unhinged, so ...
[/rant]
On its own merits, I didn't like the movie. It was manipulative and shallow. It was dopey that the kid didn't take out the money and buy food for his starving sister earlier. If Miyazaki had directed it, I'd like to think that it would have been a more honest movie.
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There was never any acknowledgment that the Japanese had started a war of aggression, and that the chickens were coming home to roost.
I sense an impending reference to Japanese atrocities against the Chinese at the beginning of WWII ...
Ever hear of the Rape of Nanjing,
Bingo! In fact, I have.
It was just, oh, poor us, how did this horrible poverty and famine happen to us?
I don't recall Seita or Setsuko, the children who are the focus of Grave, being major players in the Rape of Nanjing. I'm not an apologist, but I don't believe in that level of guilt by association -- especially when applied to children deliberately kept in the dark by a propaganda campaign. *Their* suffering was real enough. I don't think it is invalidated because of the cruelty of their neighbors. Once you go down that slippery slope it is very hard to come back up.
It was manipulative
Yes, it was. Rarely do you find a movie that tugs more firmly at the heartstrings.
and shallow.
Rarely do you find anyone who finds Grave "shallow". It deals with serious issues through the lens of of a child's perspective and forces us to confront some of the realities of war (whether we see ourselves as the agressors or the defenders, justified or not). Galaxy Quest was a shallow movie. Dumb and Dumber was a shallow movie.
It was dopey that the kid didn't take out the money and buy food for his starving sister earlier.
Ah. A story that accurately portrays people making stupid decisions is not of necessity a stupid story (or, perhaps, all of history is a stupid story). While I must admit that I also favor stories about success and triumph in non-zero-sum worlds where merit is rewarded and rationality prevails ... the fact that the movie does not dwell on such topics is not an inherent strike against it. I remind you that the protagonist is a *child*, and as a class children are not known for their ability to clearly evaluate options and make the best choices.
If Miyazaki had directed it, I'd like to think that it would have been a more honest movie.
I agree. I'm also forced to admit that it would probably have romanticized the Super Fortresses a bit more -- Miyazaki is always a sucker for flight.
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I don't recall Seita or Setsuko, the children who are the focus of Grave, being major players in the Rape of Nanjing. I'm not an apologist, but I don't believe in that level of guilt by association ...It deals with serious issues through the lens of of a child's perspective
I am not saying that the kiddies were responsible--that is absurd, of course. What I am saying is that the filmmakers chose that perspective in an attempt to co-opt the role of victims. By no means was the Japanese government--or the filmmakers--as innocent as babes. What was the point of the movie? From my admittedly biased perspective (the Japanese bombed my father's house when he was a small child, family lost everything, horrible childhood, etc.), it is just another small example of denial of any wrongdoing. Anti-war? At least the Germans actively seek to remind themselves of World War II and the wrongs that they did; the Japanese are not so truthful with themselves and their children.
...and forces us to confront some of the realities of war
Perhaps if the Japanese had been forced to suffer some of what they were so quick to inflict on others, earlier in their history, they would have been a wee bit slower on the draw.
Rarely do you find a movie that tugs more firmly at the heartstrings.
Even before I thought through why I didn't like the movie, I was unmoved by the characters (aside from hating the aunt). And I cry during movies at the drop of a hat.
A story that accurately portrays people making stupid decisions is not of necessity a stupid story (or, perhaps, all of history is a stupid story).
Right, but in this case it was just another nail in the coffin of my sympathy. I unfortunately have a low tolerance for stupidity.
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"What was the point of the movie? From my admittedly biased perspective (the Japanese bombed my father's house when he was a small child, family lost everything, horrible childhood, etc.), "
in war everyone is a victim, and its usually the innocent children who pay....
hey, i am korean myself, and the japanese occupied korea....
actually miazaki prefers to make much happier endings....
"the only fansub translation available was, shall we say, suboptimal. :-) "
thats it!!! noir is almost fansub quality, but still very much worth buying or renting...i absolutely love it....anybody seen it....
will you be doing any more references to anime in future mods or upgrades to mods???
how about a ranma npc???
whenever it rains he gets wild surge sex change...hehehheheh....
:blink: :D :o :rolleyes:
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Sorry, I have to reply here.
You guys seem to miss the real MASTERPIECE of Miyazaki:
Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind... the Graphic Novel!!!! (http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/1569313482.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg) (link to image :rolleyes: )
It's nothing like the film.
14 years of work by the author.
The target audience are not kids here. The story is...
I cannot find the words.
I consider this the best work of LITERATURE ever. Astounding.
Just read some reviews at Amazon (there are 60 or more I think...), you'll find that my words are not exagerated.
Many compare it with LotR.
For me, it easily surpasses it. No other book/film/whatever can make you so deeply
involved and moved...
[!--EDIT|Littiz|Nov 3 2002, 01:04 PM--]
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What I am saying is that the filmmakers chose that perspective in an attempt to co-opt the role of victims.
Is every Japanese filmmaker that references the second world war required to turn a completely cold eye to everyone living in Japan at the time?
I'm tempted to suggest that we were watching different movies. My impression was always that the Aunt and the surrounding society starved the children, not the Americans. Food is available, but he's too proud to take it and they're too proud to give it to him.
What was the point of the movie?
This is always a good question.
Presumably, the point of the movie was to be a faithful adaptation of Akiyuki Nosaka's semi-autobiography, Hotaru no Haka (Grave of the Fireflies).
The question then shifts to: why make this movie and not some other movie?
From my admittedly biased perspective (the Japanese bombed my father's house when he was a small child, family lost everything, horrible childhood, etc.), it is just another small example of denial of any wrongdoing.
I really see the war as quite peripheral in this movie. The American superfortresses are just as distant as the imaginary Japanese navy. For me, it is the unyielding nature of Japanese society at the time that is under the microscope in this movie.
At least the Germans actively seek to remind themselves of World War II and the wrongs that they did; the Japanese are not so truthful with themselves and their children.
Americans also tend to gloss over atrocities they have committed (e.g., against the Native Americans, let's pull the Cherokee Trail of Tears as an example out of the hat, or (more topical?) the Japanese Internment during WWII). The Egyptians were oppressors, the Romans were a conquering empire ... I think you will actually find it difficult-to-impossible to name a culture that has not been atrocious at some point in history.
Perhaps if the Japanese had been forced to suffer some of what they were so quick to inflict on others, earlier in their history, they would have been a wee bit slower on the draw.
If you are truly interested in this topic, I recommend Herbet P. Bix's "Hirohito and the Making of Modern Japan", a scholarly yet approachable biography that starts early enough to pay quite a bit of attention to the Rape of Nanjing. It also spends quite a bit of time giving you an inside perspective on the rationalization of evil and is a decidedly less-than-favorable portrayal of Hirohito.
Right, but in this case it was just another nail in the coffin of my sympathy. I unfortunately have a low tolerance for stupidity.
Since patience and tolerance have never been my forte, I can't say anything here one way or the other.
-
Is every Japanese filmmaker that references the second world war required to turn a completely cold eye to everyone living in Japan at the time?
Is there a Japanese filmmaker that's made a movie about Japanese atrocities? I admit that this is the first Japanese film I have seen that discusses WWII (unless you count Tora Tora Tora, which I understand was made with the assistance of various Japanese officials), so if you know of any others, I would be interested. Frankly, knowing the attempts that the Japanese make every 10 years or so to sanitize their role in WWII (the latest having just occurred this summer), I tend to assume the worst.
My impression was always that the Aunt and the surrounding society starved the children, not the Americans. Food is available, but he's too proud to take it and they're too proud to give it to him.
OK. I agree with the first sentence here, but I disagree with the second one. He steals food, as I recall, and it's not that the landowners (and his aunt) are too proud to give it to him when they do catch him, they're too selfish. (That was also part of my feeling that the movie was more manipulative than the average flick--the kids never got a break, everything was stacked against them, etc.)
I also agree that we essentially watched different movies. I was expecting an apology, which I didn't get, at least not directly. It was more "what's wrong with our society that we can do this to our children" rather than "what's wrong with our society that we can do this to other people's children." I hadn't seen it that way before.
Americans also tend to gloss over atrocities they have committed
I do not think this is acceptable behavior, either.
I think you will actually find it difficult-to-impossible to name a culture that has not been atrocious at some point in history.
This sounds as though it's heading towards "everyone else does it, so why can't we?"
I recommend Herbet P. Bix's "Hirohito and the Making of Modern Japan"
It will go on the to-read list.
Since patience and tolerance have never been my forte, I can't say anything here one way or the other.
You seem quite patient with people on this forum. :)
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I always thought that Grave of Fireflies was a smack to the face about the tragedies of war. The film maker decided to show what happens to a country so bent on nationalism and fighting their enemies they don’t see how the war is hurting their own people. How is this glossing over the atrocities that were committed by Japan? The film maker shows the greatest tragedy and atrocity of all, the loss of humanity between countrymen and the suffering of the have-nots.
The point of the whole movie is that war sucks. The setting of showing how your own people suffer impacts your viewers more than making the movie about people in other countries. We feel bad for misfortunes that happen in other parts of the world but we truly feel the PAIN when it happens to our own. Grave of Fireflies is a tear jerker, and it knows what to pull because it’s honest. Yes, everything wasn’t stacked in favor of the kids, and that’s what happens in real life and reflects the culture of the Japanese. Pride and honor are virtues in Japan as is tradition. As for stealing...people who steal food for their families get punished in almost all societies in the world.
I hope this doesn’t sound too harsh but I just wanted to throw in my two cents. I don’t think anyone is wrong for seeing something as they want, I just felt compelled to spit out my opinion because I do ‘like‘ this movie. However I wouldn‘t want to see it again... :ph34r:*waves a white flag and carries a dove* And uhm... sorry for posting something so off topic.
:(
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And sorry for double posting! *hides*
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The film maker shows the greatest tragedy and atrocity of all, the loss of humanity between countrymen and the suffering of the have-nots.
So you think it's worse to commit crimes against your fellow citizens than people outside your tribe? I don't. If you are arguing that indifference is worse than active torture, I'm not sure I agree with you there, either.
The setting of showing how your own people suffer impacts your viewers more than making the movie about people in other countries. We feel bad for misfortunes that happen in other parts of the world but we truly feel the PAIN when it happens to our own.
I don't think it's sufficient to "feel bad" about misfortunes that one inflicts on others. Not that they seem to feel bad about it, anyway. The take-home message for the Japanese audience seems to be "if we go to war again, let's not forget the kids." A worthy message, but not the only one they need to hear.
Well, I appear to be one of only two people on the planet who didn't like this movie (the other being my husband, who doesn't have the same ingrained biases that I have). I'll live.
sorry for posting something so off topic.
Since Westley has already created a separate Tactics package, I don't think this thread really has a raison d'etre anyway. :)
And sorry for double posting!
The board has been having posting problems lately. Someone will probably come along and clean this up, eventually.
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*Click* Cleaned it up. BTW, I believe that it's possible to delete/modify your own posts. ;)
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There has been a problem lately: while trying to post a message is possible to receive an "e-mail error" indicating that your message hasn't been post, and which is false. That's how once I ended with a message being posted thrice!
And, you can't delete your posts, only edit them.
Cheers
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Suppose that someone out there (let's call him "Jason", choosing a name uniformly at random) thinks that the story is paramount and that I should not even have options here -- I should just always make the mod install as if the user had said "yes; yes; yes".
That's great, and it makes Jason happy (and probably most others as well). However, let's consider another hypothetic user (call him "Gebhard", to pick another name uniformly at random). Gebhard would rather have "yes; no; no", and the story is not quite as important to him. If I follow Jason's suggestion, Gebhard will always be somewhat unhappy.
However, if I just leave the choice up to the user, everyone can be happy. Jason can say "yes; yes; yes" and get what he wants, Gebhard can say "yes; no; no" and get what he wants, and people who have no idea can just say "yes; yes; yes" and go with my default.
This is frighteningly prophetic of you, in light of my current 'fued' with Mr. Compton over the Kelsey/Imoen romance.
:)
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Coming in a bit late in the game, and continuing off-topic discussion, but...after seeing what the WW troupe gets away with... (kidding! kidding!)
I've never seen Grave of the Fireflies, despite having owned it for several years. I'm told it will, without a doubt, have me crying at the end...and from what little I know of it, I can't disagree. I just haven't been in a mood to cry for a while now...
And I'd like to second Littiz's praise for Nausicaa's graphic novels. They are without a doubt the greatest graphic novel sets I've ever read, and up there with the greatest stories I've ever read as well. The story is powerful and much more involved than the more simple charm of Totoro or Kiki's Delivery Service. Truly a work that shouldn't be missed.
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Coming in a bit late in the game, and continuing off-topic discussion, but...after seeing what the WW troupe gets away with... (kidding! kidding!)
You'd better be. :)
Grave of the Fireflies
I'll just say that I found out one of my best friends also thought it was insipid. Vindication!
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I'll put the --do_the_chores option on the TODO list, right after the --do_what_I_mean_not_what_I_said option.
Wes, my sink was full of dirty dishes so I tried the command weidu dirty_dishes --out cupboard but it didn't work. Did I screw up the syntax, or have you not implemented this feature yet?
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Wes, my sink was full of dirty dishes so I tried the command weidu dirty_dishes --out cupboard but it didn't work. Did I screw up the syntax, or have you not implemented this feature yet?
There's a command to do the dishes? How about one for laundry too?
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Sheesh! I gotta get the upgrade. I tried to tell v9.1 to walk my dog and it put the leash on my goldfish. Or is that a known bug?
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Sheesh! I gotta get the upgrade. I tried to tell v9.1 to walk my dog and it put the leash on my goldfish. Or is that a known bug?
Maybe I better not try to tell it to clean the guinea pigs cage...
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Ack, I was looking forword to the weidu organize_book shelves command.....
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Ack, I was looking forword to the weidu organize_book shelves command.....
Oh, my dear, *no* one around here has organized book shelves ;) I'm not sure even WEIDU could do that!
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Sheesh! I gotta get the upgrade. I tried to tell v9.1 to walk my dog and it put the leash on my goldfish. Or is that a known bug?
I believe it's a known bug, though the latest version of WeiDU doesn't work correctly, either. The leash ended up on my cat, and you can imagine how well that went over.
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Uh oh.. we're coming dangerously close to a party... we better hide from Lisa ;)
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--------------------
A bored wanton trollop is a dangerous wanton trollop. And that does *not* mean she writes XXX-rated mods :P
Awww, darn!
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Sheesh! I gotta get the upgrade. I tried to tell v9.1 to walk my dog and it put the leash on my goldfish. Or is that a known bug?
I believe it's a known bug, though the latest version of WeiDU doesn't work correctly, either. The leash ended up on my cat, and you can imagine how well that went over.
Sounds like a bug to me. I think the problem here is that I don't have any pets myself, so in-house testing is difficult. How about this: just zip up your entire household and mail it to me. I'll unpack it here and try things out. With a few test-runs I should be able to get the leash on the dog instead. Hopefully the cat is known for its patience :-).
As for the bookshelf thing -- it looks like it's not organizing them, but for legacy reasons the default sort method is "editor first name ; ties broken by illustrator date of birth". The result looks random to most people. Specify "by genre ; ties broken by title" or some such. :-)
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Sounds like a bug to me. I think the problem here is that I don't have any pets myself, so in-house testing is difficult. How about this: just zip up your entire household and mail it to me. I'll unpack it here and try things out. With a few test-runs I should be able to get the leash on the dog instead. Hopefully the cat is known for its patience :-).
As for the bookshelf thing -- it looks like it's not organizing them, but for legacy reasons the default sort method is "editor first name ; ties broken by illustrator date of birth". The result looks random to most people. Specify "by genre ; ties broken by title" or some such. :-)
Thanks. I'll do that.
By the way, the 'genre' filter needs tweaking. It put Aleister Crowley's 'Theory and Practice of Magick' in the Home Improvement section between 'Mix Grout Like a Pro' and 'The Ugly Shrubbery Guide.' This almost made me miss the full moon the other night.
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As for the bookshelf thing -- it looks like it's not organizing them, but for legacy reasons the default sort method is "editor first name ; ties broken by illustrator date of birth". The result looks random to most people. Specify "by genre ; ties broken by title" or some such. :-)
Damn! I just organized my bookshelves by hand. Next time I have some project around the house I'm just going to wait for a new version of WeiDU!
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Damn! I just organized my bookshelves by hand. Next time I have some project around the house I'm just going to wait for a new version of WeiDU!
Ach, the very thought makes me tired. And to think I used to organize my LP's in very specific order *sigh* Honestly, move to laid back Phoenix and all my organizational skills went out the window.
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Sounds like a bug to me. I think the problem here is that I don't have any pets myself, so in-house testing is difficult. How about this: just zip up your entire household and mail it to me.
Done. I included my husband, as he is often found on the same couch as the dog and cat, so you'll probably want to factor in his proximity as well.