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Friends and Neighbors => Weimer Republic (WeiDU.org) => Solaufein => Topic started by: alson on August 18, 2002, 10:23:51 AM
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The Eclipse party is not so scary, guys! With the right tactic, of course :P
I've just beaten them, on my first try! :)
I have a party of six:
Cavalier (me)
Ranger/Cleric (custom)
Swashbuckler (immy)
Sola
Tashia
Seravok
I've beaten Sendai yesterday, and i was really looking forward to fighting the Eclipse party. I went back to Amkethran (sp?) to buy some scrolls, and i knew that the Eclipse party will be my next challenge - so i set my Sequencers as follow:
Sola:
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Minor: Blur and Mirror Image. Ended up not even using it.
Sequncer: Greater Malison, Remove Magic, and... most importantly - Teleport Field! This sequencer was the big winner.
Trigger: Improved Haste, Mislead, and Prot. Magical Weapons. Havn't used either.
Chain: Remove Magic, 2xADHWs. This was also important.
Tashia:
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Sequencer: Again, Malison, Remove Magic, and the surprisingly efficient Teleport Field! putting another malison here was a mistake, because it doesn't stack - i should've put another Teleport Field.
Chain: Again, Remove Magic, 2xADHWs. A battle winner combo.
So, i was teleported to the area. Had the little dialogue with the party (great dialogue wes! best dialogue in game, better then the Beholder! :D),
and the battle began.
The Eclipse sorcerer throws a Dragon Breath on me. The only one i havn't protected from fire is Tashia! Big mistake, but she survives, with only ~15 HP left.
I immediately realeased both sequencers. The teleport field disables the fighters!! They still hurt me, but not so much as they can. The Teleport Field also teleports the Spellcasters near me. Pure luck!
The Chains are triggered. Unfortunately, their buffs don't seems to dispel, but the fighters buffs do, allowing the ADHWs to really hurt them, and kill the annoying shadows.
Everyone except Tashia Greater Whirlwind. Me and Seravok are equipped with vorpal weapons - the Ravanger and the Axe of the Unyielding. The vorpal effect cuts thorugh stone/ironskins, so i target the Sorcerer, and Seravok targets the Druid. Since we're whirlwinding, the chance of a vorpal effect is high - and indeed, both the Druid and the Sorcerer die.
Meanwhile, Tashia sets another Chain, this time with 3x ADHWs. The Chain is triggered, and brings the Anti-Paladin and the Barb to Badly Injured. The Kensai died!
Total Eclipse. DAMN!
I pause the game, and i see that the buffs from my Ranger/Cleric, Tashia, and Seravok are dispelled. The fighters kills Tashia and the Ranger/Cleric. Meanwhile, Sola, who is immune to the Timestop, GWW and kills the Barb, who totally ignores him.
The Cleric brings Seravok to about 12 HP left - but i have nobody to heal him! No time to run to the R/C body and get the Rod of Resurrection, too.
Seravok, being the brave warrior he is, does not retreat, and GWW again. he attacks the AP, and after two blows... I see a white soul coming out of the him, too.
5 down, one more to go!
The Cleric is isolated.
I still have Sola, Seravok, Immy (the Swash) and me. We all WW and attack him.
Another Total Eclipse.
His globe of blades kills Seravok, but the rest survive. When time flows again, he died.
I lost Tashia, the R/C and Seravok, but still - it was indeed a glorious battle! :)
Here are the keys for victory, IMHO:
(Oh, and i played on core)
* Teleport Field!! The fighters are all really tough, and this spells will help to Disable them.
* Remove, Remove, and Remove - the whole party is heavily buffed - if you won't dispel it, you will die. Simple. And don't use dispel - they will try to dispel your buffs, so don't help them. They do it well enough.
* Chain area affect spells - you want to hurt them all, and you want to do it fast. The best way for this is Chaining ADHWs.
* Vorpal weapons - these weapons are always great, we all know it, but when it also cuts through stoneskins - which is a great way to kill the spellcasters. Use them with GWW - it will increase the chances of success.
Well, this is it. My tips for the Eclipse fight.
Eventually, it's all about the right tactic. I was just lucky i found it fast.
Oh, and Wes - Well done! It must be the best fight i ever fought! :)
I love the dialogue!
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al, buddy...here is a tactic taken from wes....
GIGGLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
spell immunity abjuration will prevent eclipse from dispelling YOUR buffs!!!!
thanks for tip on telly field.... :o :unsure: :) B) :P :huh: :D ;)
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ok, how did you kill the wraiths???
sunbeam???
also, may i suggest you try using regen for tashia and stacked prot from energy and elemental protection on ALL weaker characters who are not already immune to fire???
even with balderdash fix packs, if you stack prot from el and energy, you will get over 100 percent fire protection, and a nice 80, i think protection from enemy abu dahzim and skulls...
did mislead keep enemy from targetting mages, or did they get true sighted quickly???
good going, i will now spread teh word about telly field.... :rolleyes: :D
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al, buddy...here is a tactic taken from wes....
GIGGLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
spell immunity abjuration will prevent eclipse from dispelling YOUR buffs!!!!
Yes, I thought about it...
AFTER THE BATTLE!!! :rolleyes:
:D
thanks for tip on telly field....
You welcome!
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ok, how did you kill the wraiths???
Alot of ADHWs :D
also, may i suggest you try using regen for tashia and stacked prot from energy and elemental protection on ALL weaker characters who are not already immune to fire???
even with balderdash fix packs, if you stack prot from el and energy, you will get over 100 percent fire protection, and a nice 80, i think protection from enemy abu dahzim and skulls...
Yes, i forgot about Regeneration.... Oh well, i still have the Ascension Final Battle to use it... :D
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A brilliant work, Alson!
You're an awesome player!
Congrats again!
Do you think that trying Eclipse without Chain Cheese and without pre-buffing
will be asking to much? :P
:unsure: :D
Ok, I'll try anyway.........
If you're warned about the battle, I'll allow myself pre-buffing, at least.....
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A brilliant work, Alson!
You're an awesome player!
Congrats again!
Do you think that trying Eclipse without Chain Cheese and without pre-buffing
will be asking to much? :P
:unsure: :D
Ok, I'll try anyway.........
If you're warned about the battle, I'll allow myself pre-buffing, at least.....
Dont underestimate yourself, littiz.
Beating the Ascension final battle with only 3 chars is a bigger achievement! :)
And, without chain - for me, hardly.
But prebuffing - sure, i did it with only stoneskins and some prot. from fire.
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ok, did you guys init eclipse when you wanted to or actually wait for it to auto trigger???
its so much easier if you init when you were ready, and had just buffed up...
i curretnly got bun bun 5 up and running fine...
the inquisitor immunites all work, and increased acuity as a perminent effect sure makes many battles easy...in one round attack with g whirlwind, holy might, and kai...
maybe add poison weapon in ver 5.1....giggle...
havent even hit underdark yet, having fun stacking 8 dragon breaths to beat kangazz guardians...
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Dont underestimate yourself, littiz.
Beating the Ascension final battle with only 3 chars is a bigger achievement!
I frankly consider that my masterpiece of strategy
and ...... "elegance"! B)
But, WAY more than just ONE try was needed! :rolleyes: :P
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Dont underestimate yourself, littiz.
Beating the Ascension final battle with only 3 chars is a bigger achievement!
I frankly consider that my masterpiece of strategy
and ...... "elegance"! B)
But, WAY more than just ONE try was needed! :rolleyes: :P
LOL... More then one WEEK, IIRC... :D
@Wes - how about making the Eclipse party 'Death Warded'?
They are very powerful indeed, but they just fall TOO easily to weapons like Ravanger +6 and Unyielding +5... (OTOH, anything falls easily to these weapons :P)
Maybe Death Ward on Core, Hard, and Insane only?
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Maybe Death Ward on Core, Hard, and Insane only?
Alson,
I play on Core. Don't even think about it. :angry: But you can think of
Death Ward on Hard and Insane... with my permission, of course. :P :D
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LOL... More then one WEEK, IIRC...
A week without Sunday actually...
About three reloads/day, considering how long a single try may last! :rolleyes: :D
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Maybe Death Ward on Core, Hard, and Insane only?
Alson,
I play on Core. Don't even think about it. :angry: But you can think of
Death Ward on Hard and Insane... with my permission, of course. :P :D
LOL... :D
OK, accepted... Death Ward on Hard and Insane makes sense.
Wes?
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I'll put it on the todo list.
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Thank you, gentlemen. :)
*deep bow*
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I'll put it on the todo list.
As always, thank you Wes.
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From Release 70:
* Eclipse guys now get Death Warded if you're on CORE or above.
Now, I suppose I have to take that "Thank you" back... [_[
:rolleyes:
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From Release 70:
* Eclipse guys now get Death Warded if you're on CORE or above.
Now, I suppose I have to take that "Thank you" back... [_[
:rolleyes:
LOL! :D :P
Don't worry Aubrey, i'm sure you can beat it.
If all fails, lower the slider to NORMAL and use all the vorpal weapons available.
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If all fails, lower the slider to NORMAL
... and say "goodbye" to my dignity, you mean? [_[ :rolleyes:
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I missed the whole cord/hard distinction when I was making my todo list. The next version will move the death ward up to hard, leaving core as before. It wouldn't do to upset Aubrey.
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Thank you wes, for the consideration.
Any other comments on the battle?
Oh, and check your inbox, i sent you a PM.
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Many thanks. I've yet to have the showdown with the Eclipse gang, and would baulk at any increased difficulty (although I'm saving all my Mind Flayer control collars especially for the occasion). I'm far too timid to venture above "Core"; many encounters, such as the final fight in the Ascension, already require that I meekly slide the bar to the left to avoid becoming overly frustrated. I lack the patience and precious time available to wile away entire afternoons attempting single encounters (as I did with Improved Abazigal once) nowadays.
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Just one question: Is it possible to dispel death ward, or is it permament? If it's dispelable, than i don't see any problems... (haven't tried the new eclipse yet :rolleyes: )
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Yes, Death Ward is dispellable.
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I missed the whole cord/hard distinction when I was making my todo list. The next version will move the death ward up to hard, leaving core as before. It wouldn't do to upset Aubrey.
Your consideration obliges me, Mr. Weimer, and I will humbly bow.. :)
Thank you wes, for the consideration.
Now that's what I call a well-bred friend. :D
Thank you, gentlemen. Hopefully this time I won't have to reconsider. :)
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@Aubrey, it's your fault!!!
I wanted that on core!!
Oh, all right, my supergood char won't allow Vorpal Blades in the
party this time..... B)
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@Aubrey, it's your fault!!!
I wanted that on core!!
No, it's not my fault. Weimer is the one to decide what is to be done and what not.
And so far, Death Ward is on Core!!
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Ok, I tried new Eclipse... it wasn't *so* tough(i didn't use vorpals anyway), and actually I think that spellcaster should be somewhat smarter - one of them tried to kill mordy(finally, after about 3x eclipses he casts death fog, what about death spell?) second was throwing energy blades at simulacrum, and third one was casting sanctuary, and healing my own simulacrum :blink: I think the healing part happened somewhere else too, but i'm not certain( those "slightly better mages" propably) Once again sorry for my english :unsure:
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AHA!!! so targetting is off, eh???
a few multiple misleads triggered by spell sequenced spells should protect the mages...looks like they arent scripted to do a lot of true sights, either...
so have your very vulnerable mages cast milseads. the party should go for them as higher priority than the npcs...eclipse is set to ignore summons...but simmys and mislead clones occupy a higher targetting priority for all enemy ai's...
also here is a trick...
you know the belt of con from unseeing eye???
have your weaker people use it, like aerie and gain 40% increase in hp, then stick into bag of holding, recharges, and move on to next member...sola for example needs it badly...aerie and tashia too...
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Now that's what I call a well-bred friend. :D
Thank you, gentlemen. Hopefully this time I won't have to reconsider. :)
LOL! :D
You welcome...
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Ok, I tried new Eclipse... it wasn't *so* tough(i didn't use vorpals anyway), and actually I think that spellcaster should be somewhat smarter - one of them tried to kill mordy(finally, after about 3x eclipses he casts death fog, what about death spell?) second was throwing energy blades at simulacrum, and third one was casting sanctuary, and healing my own simulacrum :blink: I think the healing part happened somewhere else too, but i'm not certain( those "slightly better mages" propably) Once again sorry for my english :unsure:
On what level are you playing, KaPe?
It's important, because Weimer was kind enough to make an 'difficulty-dependent' AI, Ascension-like.
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"... for those who never try, they are SURE to fail!!"
Ah, I'm so glad Littiz decided to bring up his old signature. Bravo, Littiz! :)
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"... for those who never try, they are SURE to fail!!"
Ah, I'm so glad Littiz decided to bring up his old signature. Bravo, Littiz!
Oh, you know, my signatures rotate, come and go... all but one :rolleyes:
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Oh, you know, my signatures rotate, come and go... all but one
Mmmm...Ever forward, my darling wind...?? :)
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Indeed, @Aubrey, that one!
anyway....
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WoW!!!!!!!!
I've done it!!! The Eclipse party is defeated!
FIVE attempts needed....
But without cheese absolutely, and, WITHOUT CASUALTIES!!!
Only Immie a bit wounded, just a bit...:D
Surely I've been lucky with timings and such...
Being warned by Sola that they would come at night outdoors,
I allowed myself some buffing with long-duration spells:
Stoneskins, Prot. from Evil 10 radius, Prot. from fear...
Also I changed Tashia Chain Contigency with 2 Abi + Prot Magical Weap.
on enemy sight (I don't like such "preparations", but it was needed...)
I knew what to expect from what I had already read, still,
the first attempts ended in two seconds with my party slaughtered
and Eclipse at FULL strenght!
Really scaring... all chunked like insects...
Then I understood that, for instance, Jaheira could only retreat.
No way for her Ironskins to protect her... better to flee.
Also kept together the party suffered too much from the initial Dragon's Breath.
So: battle starts, Jaheira retreats. Tashia is a bit aside, her Chain
kills some shadows, plus she gets Prot.from Magical weapons..
She starts Imp. Alacrity.
My char (cleric/thief) is "in charge" to make some steps forward and
attract the Dragon's Breath, while the others try to stay clear... I have
some nice fire-resistance gear, and couldn't do much more, anyway.
I have also a stoneskin thanks to the Gargoyle Boots, but it won't last long..
Immie plainly casts Teleport Field, by Alson's suggestion! ;),
then goes invisible again with the Staff.
Sola casts something and engages an enemy.
Luckily they head towards Tashia... she's protected..I don't know if the Remove Magic
hit her, maybe she was out of range, or maybe she won the check... she's high in
level... Alacrity comes, so she casts Spell Immunity:Abjuration, and 4 Remove Magic
on the enemies, "crossing" somehow the areas.
ONLY THEN she casts Greater Malison and a couple of Slow
and Glitterdusts, otherwise these would have been dispelled by her own Remove
Magic!!!
Then she continues with Dragon's Breaths, and Planetar, leaving ONE 9th level spell,
I want another alacrity...
Just in time I remember Total Eclipse is coming! So she casts another
Prot. From Magic Weapons.
Perfect timing (fewhh..), they strike at her and waste attacks, sparing
my PC!!! Sola casts Prot. From Magic Weapons too, when time flows again
finally Tashia's spells trigger!
At least one of them dies, the Druid IIRC (what a chaos...), they're cursed,
maybe slowed, who knows, I know only that I manage to survive, thanx to Teleport Field
too!
For sure I see the Sorcerer who tries to kill the Planetar I directed to her!
This until Tashia casts Alacrity again... this time I "Improved Haste"
all my party!!!! Then go for Abi's...
Also she unloads her Spell Trigger, which already had, triple Chain Lightning...
I survive another Total Eclipse, my PC has conveniently used a Mislead Scroll
(this I consider a fine use of UAI, without duplicating items...)
Jaheira enters the fight now from afar, with BloodBane and Whirlwinds..
the Planetar dies by Energy Blades or something, so Immie casts hers!
They all die by my fury, the Sorceress tries to kill the second Planetar but
now I can focus on her with the entire party, dispel and kill!
In the same moment her protections are taken down the Planetar scores a vorpal,
thus sparing her 2 or 3 seconds of suffering!! :D
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:rolleyes:
Luck surely made the challenge way shorter than it could be, still
I had a lot of fun!
The dialog was terrific! :D
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I tried the Eclipse on Core ( the one i described) and Hard... - there was NO Total Eclipse during that one... bug, or what? I didn't notice great increase in AI... no offense of course...
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well...my current party is going to be called....
"armor is for whimps!!!!!"
bun bun...
tashia
sola
kelcy
immie
aerie...
talk about fragile...
talk about the spell power!!!!!
no one uses armor, everyone uses stoneskins.
:P
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oopse..
my point is i am absolutely going to have to cheese eclipse...
two fighters and all spell casters....ick...
kape...you managed to kill the sorc, i think who has the spell...
see..alson, spell immunity is the key...littiz, you should have loaded up jahirea with regen spells...might have made all the difference...protected immie better, and tashia...
had to drop jahiera....getting kelcy for immie...
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"(...)you managed to kill the sorc, i think who has the spell... "
The sorc was last to die, as well as other spellcaster - anti-paladin =] barb =] ken =] druid =] cler =] sorc...
One more question... which fight is easier? Normal eclipse party, or console created (haven't tried the first one yet
:rolleyes: , assuming that i don't buff myself too much, only some basics spells, like imp. haste, armor of faith, stoneskin,and hardiness in 1st round, without contingency and sequencers?)
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Indeed, @Aubrey, that one!
anyway....
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WoW!!!!!!!!
I've done it!!! The Eclipse party is defeated!
FIVE attempts needed....
But without cheese absolutely, and, WITHOUT CASUALTIES!!!
Only Immie a bit wounded, just a bit...:D
Surely I've been lucky with timings and such...
Congrats, Littiz!
Welcome to the club! :D
Immie plainly casts Teleport Field, by Alson's suggestion! ;)
Glad to help! :)
ONLY THEN she casts Greater Malison and a couple of Slow
and Glitterdusts, otherwise these would have been dispelled by her own Remove
Magic!!!
I don't think that Remove Magic dispels hostile spell effect like Slow or Malsion... Are you sure on this?
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Remove Magic has a chance of dispelling all spell effects, friendly or hostile, but only on enemies of the caster.
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Excellent work, Littiz. I'm glad to hear that you were able to defeat them so swiftly. Nice strategy.
KaPe, if you're not seeing the Total Eclipse within 3 or 4 rounds, it's some sort of bug and you should reinstall.
If you are finding the Eclipse Fight "too easy", you have reached the current pinnacle of BG2 tactics (presuming you also find the Ascension final battle easy, which is likely if the first bit is true). Nothing harder is currently available. :-(
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WoW!!!!!!!!
I've done it!!! The Eclipse party is defeated!
FIVE attempts needed....
But without cheese absolutely, and, WITHOUT CASUALTIES!!!
Well done, Littiz!
Next I suppose it's my turn. :rolleyes: Okay, I hope I'll do it.
As usual, I haven't read tacticts and things like that; I haven't even read Alson's suggestions and advice here... No offense, Alson, but I like fighting battles without having read about them, and without knowing what other people did in their games. That's me. :)
P.S. What do you think about the Sneaks mini-battle? (Yiaks! I hate them! Yes, I know: I hate the majority of BG's monster population...)
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Swiftly?! Alson made them swiftly! :P
To improve the challenge there's still a lot to do, player's side...
I'd want to avoid a specific setting of Chain, for instance.
Or face them without resting beforehand, caught a little
by surprise...
Who knows if you have enough left to handle them!
I'm sure Wes could do the IA even smarter, the point is,
is there need to???
Or improve their buffing... imagine all the Eclipse party
with Kuroisan-like buffing... OUCH!!!!!!
:blink:
About the IA, I find it very smart and realistic.
Let me explain:
Just imagine to be there, you're one of the party.
You see all happening fast, surely you don't know what
your companions are about to do, and surely you can't recognize
all the spells that the enemy has active...
Probably you'd just try your most powerful spell, or go with
whirlwind and hope.
They do the same.
I mean, we can win this battles only thanx to the PAUSE feature
(which of course is the ULTIMATE piece of cheese...),
try without it and you won't think anymore that the enemy is
dumb......
Two seconds and you see only dead party members
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and surely you can't recognize
all the spells that the enemy has active...
I speculated a while ago, on the BG newsgroup, that the reason CharName is described as the most powerful Bhaalspawn, with the most of Bhaal's essence, is not because of the half-dozen low-level priest spells or the wimpy Slayer form, or the eventual pocket plane, or any number of advantages the player has from the fact that it is a computer game. Rather, CharName has, right from Candlekeep, the Bhaalspawn power of always knowing what spells are being used against him or her.
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Swiftly?! Alson made them swiftly! :P
try without it and you won't think anymore that the enemy is
dumb......
Two seconds and you see only dead party members
Thank you, Littiz!
Still, I was in a pretty high level, and playing with a party of six...
It would have been much harder with a party of three, like Wes did it.
Or improve their buffing... imagine all the Eclipse party
with Kuroisan-like buffing... OUCH!!!!!!
:blink:
IMHO, it's not K's buffing that makes him so hard - it's his equipment. His buffing is important, but if he wouldn't wear the Robe and Cloak of Cheese, he would have been much more easy.
About the IA, I find it very smart and realistic.
Let me explain:
Just imagine to be there, you're one of the party.
You see all happening fast, surely you don't know what
your companions are about to do, and surely you can't recognize
all the spells that the enemy has active...
Probably you'd just try your most powerful spell, or go with
whirlwind and hope.
They do the same.
I agree. The AI is superb.
I mean, we can win this battles only thanx to the PAUSE feature
(which of course is the ULTIMATE piece of cheese...)
Sooooo true!! I'm so used to pause, so for me, a pause-less game is harder the soloing a plain thief, no reloads, on insane. Worse then Total Eclipse! :D :P
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indeed if we would try without pause then we would get killed
but without the pause option the enemy would be cheatin aswell since it has the power to give different commands to different enemies simutaniously (am i spellin this right) which is a power the player has not (unless you have god like reflexes)
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Well done to all and thanks to you westley. It's an awesome fight and a fabulously funny dialogue. I just killed the eclipse myself and Kelsey did all the killing. I have TDD installed and had equipped the robe of Vecna, the Amulet of Power and a dagger from the shadow dragon (-5 spellcasting time, either from tdd or from freedom's reign). As a result Kelsey would cast nearly any spell instantaniously. So the combo was: Imp Alacrity, 4 Remove Magics, Greater Malison and last but not least, 7 Abi-Dalzims. It killed all but the Sorcerer who was a sitting duck for my heavy fighter party.
I personally find the instant spells pretty cheesy and I try to avoid it but sometimes it is fun to look powerful (Kelsey also had the Jan Spectroscopes way :P ; BTW do those do anything?). Kelsey alone could kill anything that isn't immune to all spells or that casts instant time stops.
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indeed if we would try without pause then we would get killed
but without the pause option the enemy would be cheatin aswell since it has the power to give different commands to different enemies simutaniously (am i spellin this right) which is a power the player has not (unless you have god like reflexes)
You're right, yet the player has an enormous advantage, he can coordinate his party as a whole, as each party member knew what the others are about to do, so pausing unbalances the odds towards him!
I still think the IA is very realistic, yet we could want it even more deadlier, who knows.
@Alson: forgot...
I knew about Remove Magic 'cause I happened to dispel with it my own CHARM from an enemy!!!! :angry: :P
[!--EDIT|Littiz|Sep 1 2002, 12:55 PM--]
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One more thing(not a bug, but...) - since warriors go after worst AC, i just block my priest with mordies, and they cannot reach it, while getting beat up everyone else...
Also, is there a list of items Eclipse party reacts to - i mean, they say something about foebane, but not a single word about foa, or sotm?
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Also, is there a list of items Eclipse party reacts to - i mean, they say something about foebane, but not a single word about foa, or sotm?
Actually, i think they DO say something about the Staff of the Magi...
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I just checked, and they can 'recognize' the following items:
[ul][li]Carsomyr +5/+6
[li]Celestial Fury
[li]Robe of Vecna
[li]Ravager +6
[li]Crom Faeyr
[li]Foebane +5[/ul]
B)
I guess i was wrong about the SotM....
Any other items, Wes?