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BG2 Completed Mods => Event Modding: Iron Modder and One-Day NPC => Topic started by: Quitch on April 20, 2004, 10:43:57 AM

Title: Mod Commentary
Post by: Quitch on April 20, 2004, 10:43:57 AM
The "witty" banter is all well and good, but with Iron Modder 3 I would like to come out of the end of the posting with some idea of what the hell the each mod was designed around, and what happens during its short life-span.

Edit by Ghreyfain: I just changed the title.  We wouldn't want people to think you have deadlines or anything. :)
Title: Re: Mod Commentry
Post by: Ghreyfain on April 20, 2004, 03:42:11 PM
"Short life-span"?  My good sir, I am grossly offended.  The Iron Mods are eternal!  When all other mods have been scoured from the earth by the fires of war and our monkey overlords are ruling the earth with Apple II's, only the IRON MODS will have survived.

But for the most part, the readme's of the mods have descriptions of what exactly happens in the mod and what you need to do to start it/play through it.  Do we have Iron Mod readme's on the site?  I'm not sure.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: jcompton on April 20, 2004, 04:33:40 PM
I don't have them linked up, no. I'll do a brief from-memory writeup of the actual content in each, though.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Grim Squeaker on April 20, 2004, 05:01:39 PM
I don't have them linked up, no. I'll do a brief from-memory writeup of the actual content in each, though.


Ya know I think I fixed mine up... I'll try and test it this week and if it works I will submit it...
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Cybersquirt on April 20, 2004, 05:10:38 PM
Edit by Ghreyfain: I just changed the title.  We wouldn't want people to think you have deadlines or anything. :)
Quote

uh.. alrightie then..  ::)
Title: Re: Mod Commentry
Post by: Quitch on April 21, 2004, 03:25:18 AM
"Short life-span"?  My good sir, I am grossly offended.  The Iron Mods are eternal!  When all other mods have been scoured from the earth by the fires of war and our monkey overlords are ruling the earth with Apple II's, only the IRON MODS will have survived.

But for the most part, the readme's of the mods have descriptions of what exactly happens in the mod and what you need to do to start it/play through it.  Do we have Iron Mod readme's on the site?  I'm not sure.

If I don't know anything about the mod, what is there to motivate me to get to that stage in the first place?
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Ghreyfain on April 21, 2004, 03:32:02 AM
That was Fainspeak for "Yes, I'm going to check if we have any info on the site, as it's probably a good idea to have some.  Good thinking."
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: jcompton on April 21, 2004, 09:46:09 AM
I'm quickly discovering that writing up totally straight descriptions for the mods makes them sound rather less impressive.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Quitch on April 22, 2004, 03:32:03 AM
It doesn't need to be straight, it just needs to actually contain some... you know... content.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Ghreyfain on April 22, 2004, 11:56:43 PM
What is this "content" word you speak of? :D
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Riklaunim on May 15, 2004, 01:44:08 PM
22,5 hours left to the IM contest  ;D
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Cuv on May 15, 2004, 03:22:16 PM
Time is getting close... can you smell it?    Can you smell the fear in Ghrey?    Hehe... 

Cuv
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Bons on May 15, 2004, 03:52:17 PM
Can you smell the fear in Ghrey?

I think you're just smelling the rum, Cuv. :)
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Mongoose87 on May 15, 2004, 07:17:09 PM
Rum IS artificial courage you know
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Cuv on May 16, 2004, 11:13:07 AM
Can you smell the fear in Ghrey?

I think you're just smelling the rum, Cuv. :)


LOL... I knew I smelled something.   Ah well.   Rum, Fear... gummy bears and pirates.   :-*
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Quitch on July 02, 2004, 04:22:42 AM
What is this "content" word you speak of? :D

It was missing from the latest commentry too.  I actually had a vague idea of what might feature in Cuv's mod, yet having read the commentry I am now utterly confused.  Are you actively trying to discourage people from checking out these mods?
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Cybersquirt on July 03, 2004, 02:15:00 AM
I'm not so sure they understand what you're asking for - Are you asking/hoping the respective author/contestants post their creative processes?
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: cliffette on July 03, 2004, 02:52:38 AM
I think it means that not only should the 'ingredient' be listed, there should also be a brief description of what each mod adds.

ie
Ghreyfain's contribution is a small epic in which you meet a beauteous figure in the Underdark. Will you lend your lips to his/her cause?
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Cybersquirt on July 03, 2004, 05:33:36 PM
Will you lend your lips to his/her cause?
  :-X

See?  Even I am not sure what Quitch is asking for.  ;D
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Quitch on July 08, 2004, 09:37:15 AM
Take the Iron Modder commentry "style" and write a description of RtW.  Do you recognise the mod anymore?  Does this tell you what to expect, what it does or why you want it?  No?  Now, imagine writing something that told you a little about RtW, that actually informed you what it was, what it did, etc.

I just want to vaguely know what the hell happened in these mods.  Vague is fine, but I can't understand a word they're blathering on about.  It's writing for writings sake, and the only people any the wiser would be the mod author.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: neriana on July 18, 2004, 03:32:45 PM
So, you want to know everything that happens in the mod from a readme, Quitch?
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: SimDing0™ on July 24, 2004, 04:53:52 AM
If I download a mod that says "this adds a quest", I certainly want to know whether it adds a zombie searching for his wife in the graveyard, or if it adds new ways to finish the Bondari encounter, or what.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Moinesse on July 24, 2004, 04:12:51 PM
I love the surprise.  It's a part of the game play.  I don't want to know what the quest is or how to get it.  I need only to know where to pick up the NPC.  The less said, the more enjoyable it becomes.  I am not selective.
I have download all the Iron Modder's mods and have enjoyed each one.  I can't wait for the next contest.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: jester on July 27, 2004, 07:23:02 PM
If I download a mod that says "this adds a quest", I certainly want to know whether it adds a zombie searching for his wife in the graveyard, or if it adds new ways to finish the Bondari encounter, or what.
Could you please provide a link to that new Bondari encounter. :D
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: julwise on July 27, 2004, 11:03:21 PM
If I interpret correctly, it seems like all Quitch wants is as much description as you would give any other "non-contest" mod. Which, obviously, doesn't involve giving a description of every event in the mod. I have deliberatly avoided downloading Iron Modder entries because I simply have no idea what most of them do! It would be especially helpful for people not very familiar with the game to know just where/when it happens and who it (primarily) involves, not including every area you travel to or every NPC involved!
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Bons on July 27, 2004, 11:40:17 PM
It would be especially helpful for people not very familiar with the game to know just where/when it happens and who it (primarily) involves, not including every area you travel to or every NPC involved!

This information is required in each ReadMe per contest rules, so an entry can be judged.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: julwise on July 28, 2004, 02:34:58 AM
Hmm, I do remember looking at the readme for the "kiss before dying" mods and I remember that some of them were fine and some I still had little to no idea what the mod did or where it began/how to get to it.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Quitch on July 28, 2004, 05:50:48 AM
If I interpret correctly, it seems like all Quitch wants is as much description as you would give any other "non-contest" mod. Which, obviously, doesn't involve giving a description of every event in the mod. I have deliberatly avoided downloading Iron Modder entries because I simply have no idea what most of them do! It would be especially helpful for people not very familiar with the game to know just where/when it happens and who it (primarily) involves, not including every area you travel to or every NPC involved!

It is good to see some sense lurks on the board.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Imrahil on July 28, 2004, 10:14:28 AM
It would be especially helpful for people not very familiar with the game to know just where/when it happens and who it (primarily) involves, not including every area you travel to or every NPC involved!

This information is required in each ReadMe per contest rules, so an entry can be judged.

True, but I think what people want is a better description *before* you get to that point.  For example, here's what the judges said about Icelus's Kiss Before Dying entry...

Quote
IRON MODDER ICELUS

Iron Modder Icelus presents a story of love after life, and kisses after death. Is the love of a shambling monster the cure for Black Lotus addiction?

"Icelus gave us a most interesting and moving story of a man seemingly cursed with undeath, who actually was given a second chance to kiss his true love and make his final farewell to her before he moved on.  This story was particularly interesting because he hinted at a intriguing story concerning the wife's fall from the temple of Sune, a story that was hinted, but never fully explained.  Perhaps he might expound on that side story, which seemingly has importance on the main plot." - UU

"Sweet story, little too lovey dovey for my tastes though." - Slayne

"Mmm...this one is sooo good. I wish there were more on my plate! A tale of sorrow and bereavement involving love, loss, and the unmistakeable salty tang of rotting flesh. Absolutely delicious! This little tidbit could very easily have been added into the original game, and with just a little bit more by way of side dishes would make a delectable little miniquest. The depth and vivid flavor of the writing make this dish unforgettable!" - Sorschana

Over in the "Best Of" thread, when listing my favorites, I said...

"Icelus's  Kiss Before Dying - adds a quest you begin in one of the tombs in the Graveyard District (the one near the orphan & the Priest) - only problem is I've never been able to actually find the ghost's love (probably due to having other Copper Coronet modifying MOD's in place), but I know where she should be & I CLUA her in when I get there"

While not as colorful & "foody" as the judges, I think you can tell what the MOD actually does a little better.  Maybe have 1 judge who's in charge of giving a literal description rather than a colorful one?

- Imrahil
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: jcompton on July 28, 2004, 11:24:42 AM
Yes, we call her "Kismet", but I prefer it when she mods, quite frankly. :)
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Cybersquirt on July 29, 2004, 08:42:57 AM
^ Well I hope you (at least) let her out for air and food once in a while.   :P
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Kismet on July 30, 2004, 07:38:56 AM
^ Well I hope you (at least) let her out for air and food once in a while.   :P

Once a month, whether I need it or not.  (He's such a slave driver)
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Quitch on July 30, 2004, 08:15:28 AM
Yes, we call her "Kismet", but I prefer it when she mods, quite frankly. :)

We need some sanity on the commentary team.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Jhuri on August 08, 2004, 01:42:20 PM
I belive Quitch would be excelent judge , Quitch makes excelent mod in RTW i have read of it on local newsgroup!!!
I am sorry about this being out of place in here but quitch where can i find your mods home
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Mongoose87 on August 08, 2004, 08:37:46 PM
*cough*suckup--*cough*
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Jhuri on August 09, 2004, 01:24:21 AM
I am sorry i know not the meaning , However i belive in being kind of peoples work .You tell me i am suck up I belive I am kind person do you have problem with that
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Quitch on August 09, 2004, 03:17:35 AM
I belive Quitch would be excelent judge , Quitch makes excelent mod in RTW i have read of it on local newsgroup!!!
I am sorry about this being out of place in here but quitch where can i find your mods home

In my signature.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Imrahil on September 21, 2004, 10:16:27 PM
Are you actively trying to discourage people from checking out these mods?

Once again, I feel like the above rings true.  I got a pretty good idea of what Andyr's latest submission involves, & to some extent Ghrey's, but the rest could be gibberish for all that it matters.  I've simply no idea what to expect, where to go, who to talk to, what it adds, what point in the game to look for it (it's a big game... even "it involves Imoen" is not that helpful unless you already know what it does), whether or not it's "game-breaking" (i.e. is it OK to install on a regular game or will it kill/slime my whole party?), why I should even install it...

I like trying these out, I really do - I always look forward to the latest IM Pack being released, but please, please... get some better descriptions of what they actually do.  :)

- Imrahil
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Andyr on September 23, 2004, 08:05:15 AM
Are you actively trying to discourage people from checking out these mods?

Once again, I feel like the above rings true.  I got a pretty good idea of what Andyr's latest submission involves, & to some extent Ghrey's, but the rest could be gibberish for all that it matters.

I think there is a balance to be achieved between letting people know what the mod does and not giving away too many spoilers.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: neriana on September 23, 2004, 03:17:57 PM
Most of them are so short that any information at all about what they do (rather than how to see them) would be a spoiler.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: SimDing0™ on September 23, 2004, 03:39:41 PM
As people are familiarising themselves with the concept and techniques, Iron Mods are getting more advanced. It's fairly telling that mine is almost always the shortest, shittiest entry.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Avenger_teambg on September 26, 2004, 06:00:27 AM
No surprise Sim :)
It was the same with the tbg contests.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: SimDing0™ on September 26, 2004, 03:21:28 PM
Hey, there was a lot of content in my TeamBG entry... I even made a new area.

...even if the entire story did focus around an ogre that shouted "NO PUBES".
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Quitch on September 27, 2004, 08:15:03 AM
Most of them are so short that any information at all about what they do (rather than how to see them) would be a spoiler.

Yet so little information people can't even decide whether they're worth downloading (and thus don't download them) is surely worse?
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: jcompton on September 27, 2004, 12:56:47 PM
Most of the fun of the Iron Mods is discovering how each author chose to exhibit the theme.

If you do not find this process of discovery fun, odds are you're not going to find the end result fun, either.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: julwise on September 28, 2004, 09:35:19 AM
Anything you have to spend an hour plus trying to find is going to have a frustrating, not fun, end result.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: jcompton on September 28, 2004, 09:52:40 AM
Since all of the Iron Mods are judged in a half-hour timeframe, I suggest that it shouldn't take you an hour.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: julwise on September 28, 2004, 08:54:21 PM
Oh, having finished the game only once, i'm sure it would take more than an hour.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: jcompton on September 28, 2004, 09:06:44 PM
The mod READMEs all include specific instructions for experiencing the new content--that's part of the contest requirement. So, okay, even if you don't know the game inside and out, you can follow the instructions to get to it--or just reach it leisurely.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: julwise on September 29, 2004, 02:46:46 AM
Well I haven't downloaded anything since the last contest, and I don't fully remember what the read-me's said, but I know I didn't install them. Anyway, my mistake I guess.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Quitch on October 20, 2004, 07:42:56 AM
So, if the reviews tell no one, except those who have played the mods, anything... what exactly is their point?

Anyway, the Iron Modder 5 commentry was better.  A little confusing, since the winning mod sounded like it should be quite sad, but then it bangs on about the laughs so who knows WTF is going on there.  Clear as always.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Pirengle on October 20, 2004, 12:35:14 PM
Poor baby. Maybe you should just enter IM6 and write your own, clearer README.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Quitch on October 21, 2004, 03:28:56 AM
I see you are unable to answer the question.  Perhaps you should go to another forum and tackle something simpler before taxing your mind with this ever so difficult subject.  No doubt you have a forum you need to be at shouting things like "If you think you can do better, write your own mod!"  I don't know how life could go on without people like you, every society needs people to do the manual labour.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: cliffette on October 21, 2004, 07:44:03 AM
The reviews are a tongue-in-cheek, humorous take-off of the fawning judge's comments from the actual Iron Chef shows. They serve as amusement for their authors and a select few who have a lighter sense of humour. Even if you don't enjoy them, other people do. Which is why they remain.

The point of the iron modding contest is to discover exactly how each modder went about interpreting the theme. If we could just read about what they did on a site, nobody would be bothered downloading the mods. Discovery is a joy... and with the readmes in hand, discovery is not too difficult a task.

I consider the 10 minutes it takes to download the Iron Modding pack, and the minute it takes to find and read the readme, not much to ask in the face of each Iron Modder's 4 hours of work (except for Sim :P).

But in all honesty, being borderline insulting and patronising is not the best way to get someone to do some extra work for you. Or change their mind, as seen in the last couple of posts in this thread.

And blah blah, hypocrisy. I know. :)
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Bons on October 21, 2004, 12:34:17 PM
Really, I'd miss it if Quitch didn't complain about the lack of detail in the mod descriptions.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Quitch on October 21, 2004, 12:55:11 PM
I think that the point here is that people aren't going on voyages of discovery precisely because they have so little idea of what to expect.

As for Pirengle, as a modder I think I'm in a pretty good position to comment on the fact that the most annoying personality type on a mod forum is the one that won't let anyone knock the mod and comes in shouting "If you think you can do better MAKE YOUR OWN MOD!"  They strike me as the type.  One of the most interesting threads on Ascension I read was about how it was overrated.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: SimDing0™ on October 21, 2004, 12:57:46 PM
I don't think it's the end of the world, personally. People who are interesting in Iron Modder download the entries to find out what they're about, while the casual player glosses over the entries because they don't know what they are. I consider this good, because Iron Modder entries are not material that I'd encourage anyone to install for a normal playthrough.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Pirengle on October 21, 2004, 01:07:29 PM
As for Pirengle, as a modder I think I'm in a pretty good position to comment on the fact that the most annoying personality type on a mod forum is the one that won't let anyone knock the mod and comes in shouting "If you think you can do better MAKE YOUR OWN MOD!" They strike me as the type. One of the most interesting threads on Ascension I read was about how it was overrated.

Well bitching about something is one thing, but bitching about something and proving the bastards wrong is quite another. If you, say, had worthwhile suggestions for Iron Modder readmes, or put in to be be a judge, or even GASP IN HORROR entered any of the Iron Modder competitions yourself, maybe people would take you seriously.

Maybe I'm not some 1337 joygasm modder like the rest of the folks here, and certainly not 1337 like you. But I know pompousity when I see it. Put up or shut up, Quitch. Whining about it here won't change anything.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: jcompton on October 21, 2004, 01:18:39 PM
I think that the only thing sucking the joy out of Iron Modder more than complaining that there are not detailed descriptions of "the mod where every CRE in the game turns into a slime" or "the mod where you find a zombie and his ex-wife" is the arguing about it.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Pirengle on October 21, 2004, 03:23:06 PM
Heh. Insert witty comment here. I get the point, and will keep quiet.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Quitch on October 22, 2004, 04:26:24 AM
As for Pirengle, as a modder I think I'm in a pretty good position to comment on the fact that the most annoying personality type on a mod forum is the one that won't let anyone knock the mod and comes in shouting "If you think you can do better MAKE YOUR OWN MOD!" They strike me as the type. One of the most interesting threads on Ascension I read was about how it was overrated.

Well bitching about something is one thing, but bitching about something and proving the bastards wrong is quite another. If you, say, had worthwhile suggestions for Iron Modder readmes, or put in to be be a judge, or even GASP IN HORROR entered any of the Iron Modder competitions yourself, maybe people would take you seriously.

Maybe I'm not some 1337 joygasm modder like the rest of the folks here, and certainly not 1337 like you. But I know pompousity when I see it. Put up or shut up, Quitch. Whining about it here won't change anything.

You want me to prove people wrong on a subjective issue?  Okaaaaay...

Last I checked you were allowed to disagree with others without it being classed as whinging, but if you want to be over protective, or whatever it is you're suffering from, please, be my guest.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: jester on October 22, 2004, 09:23:57 AM
I think we have heard both sides of the argument now and just like what they say about parallel lines and infinity some positions never meet in the foreseeable future.  :-yin
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Ghreyfain on October 22, 2004, 09:33:26 AM
Less Final Word, more talk about interesting stuff.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: julwise on October 22, 2004, 10:02:16 AM
I think it comes down to...

1) Quitch thinks mod commentary/description should be more informative. (Because it could open up Iron Modder packages to more people who feel the same.)
2) Writers of said commentary/description don't care. (Possibly because they don't see that as the "point" of the contest.)
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: jester on October 22, 2004, 01:30:24 PM
Additionally they may perceive the surprise factor as exactly what makes one of these mods fun to look at. You get the general idea from the contest motto and you may or may not care what this specific modder has come up with.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: icelus on October 22, 2004, 03:20:39 PM
Less Final Word, more talk about interesting stuff.
I think you might be becoming obsolete, Mr. Fain.  :(
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Ghreyfain on October 22, 2004, 08:33:38 PM
Additionally they may perceive the surprise factor as exactly what makes one of these mods fun to look at. You get the general idea from the contest motto and you may or may not care what this specific modder has come up with.

Jester has it right here.  Iron Mods would not be any fun to play if it was all detailed in the readme.  Heck, a detailed readme would probably have more content in it than some of the mods do.

It's a curiosity thing.  If you're curious, play the mod.  If you're not that curious, then you won't have any more or less enjoyment than you would if the mod was explained concisely in a nice text file.  If the hideously long load time of BG2 and the typing of a few console commands to warp to the mod is too trying, then you can just check out the .d and .tp2 files to see what happens.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: julwise on October 22, 2004, 11:51:31 PM
Hey, it just makes the Iron Modder content less accessible to more casual players to not have a more detailed readme/commentary. It's like you really have to want it in order to feel motivated to download it. Personally I am curious, but i'd rather just install the mods and go about encountering them in a regular play through. But when I don't know how they will affect a regularly-paced game it feels too risky.

I just think the modders/writers don't particularly want it to be more accessible. My understanding is that this is because they don't see accessibility as being a major point of the Iron Modder contests.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: neriana on October 22, 2004, 11:56:08 PM
Since every mod must contain a description of exactly how to access it, I don't see how "accessibility" is an issue here. You can't change the scope of the game with 4 hours of work.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: cliffette on October 23, 2004, 12:40:42 AM
// I would like to pre-apologise for my overly sarcastic tone in this post. And I'll stop posting in this thread too. :)

We're in a Catch-22. Not knowing what the mod is about is preventing you from installing it. But if we tell you what the mod is about, you won't need to install it. It's pretty much up to you to overcome that hurdle.

But if what people are complaining about is the lack of readme online, you're in luck.

This is what I have done to bring you this information.

i) Clicked download
ii) Opened the .zip file
iii) Looked for readme.
iv) Read readmes
v) Selectively copied information from readmes, pasted.

You can do it too, but leave out step (v) and click on the .exe instead to install. Fifteen minutes of work for you, max. Less if you have broadband.


Bons' Entry
Bons's Iron Modder V Entry:

Err. Theoretically, the party should be approached in the Promenade [3645.1410] by an NPC named Valeria for dialogue. After the dialogue, the party should hunt the sewers (AR0701) for Tarnish Kalbian [3041.2492], then return to Valeria to finish out the quest.

(Purchase/console in some Friends scrolls, SCRL72, for the maximum effect.)

SConrad's Entry
To start the journey, visit the south-eastern corner of Waukeen's Promenade at night.
Someone will initiate dialogue.

Andyr's Entry
Contents
The mod contains only one component, a quest. To start the quest, you might like to speak to Galoomp the Bookkeeper in Waukeen's Promenade (AR0700). From there it is up to you how you proceed... The quest has different outcomes depending on your actions. After it's over, if you achieved one of the nice outcomes it may be worth your while to go back and visit Galoomp a few days later, for something extra to see. Happy ending? Sad ending? You decide!

The quest contains Journal entries, and interjections from a selection of joinable NPCs (Korgan, Aerie, Nalia, Edwin, Keldorn, Cernd and Haer'Dalis).


Ghreyfain's Entry
Once in the game, do the
following:

 - Visit AR0404 (the sewers beneath the Copper Coronet)
 - Do Quallo's quests (OR for quick testing, simply attack the carrion crawler)
 - Do as Quallo bids


Icelus' Entry
The quest begins in the Trademeet.  You must have Imoen in your party (after Spellhold) and rest at the inn.

Sim's Entry
Skip to chapter 6. Have Imoen in the party (so, create "imoen211"). CTRL+I until she talks. Admire appalling banter.

Neriana's Entry
Go to Trademeet near the pub after Faldorn is dead. Cernd, Mazzy, Keldorn and Nalia, in that order each have something special to say under the right circumstances. To see it --

SPOILER

pick the option "He helped the Shadow Druids? He deserves the worst!" Cernd will speak if he's in your party. Mazzy will speak if Cernd isn't in your party. Keldorn will speak if neither Mazzy nor Cernd are in your party, and Nalia will speak if none of the other three are there.

Shed's Entry
This mod takes place in Trademeet, AR2000. The action takes place between a merchant (Terrence) at 2364.2807 and a mage (Phil) at 1832.1407. They are two estranged friends and it is your task to reconcile them (or not).
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: jcompton on October 23, 2004, 12:46:50 AM
If I may offer a Halloween-themed analogy (and I may.)

Think of Iron Modder as a haunted house.

The theme of a haunted house is "Frightening things."

If when you buy your ticket I hand you a pamphlet that tells you exactly what's going to jump out at you at every turn... then I have sucked all of the joy out of the endeavor, wasting your time and mine.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: julwise on October 23, 2004, 11:40:10 AM
You can create a mod that kills some or all of the NPC's in the course of four hours. I think that has a huge affect on the course of a casual game. 

I have downloaded Iron Modder packages in the past, and I found them as uninformative as I find the ones posted by cliffette. However, this point has already been made and is irrelevant to what i've been saying lately.

jcompton, I have already accepted, and twice tried to explain for others' understanding (and to confirm my own), what's going on here. You've been offered a suggestion, and you've chosen not to accept if for your own reasons. In your opinion, knowing what the mod does sucks the fun out of experiencing it, in my opinion, it doesn't. Therefore I think the subject needs to be let go, because nothing is going to be done about the suggestion in question.

If this understanding, which I have tried to explain three times now, is wrong, let me know.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: neriana on October 23, 2004, 04:07:15 PM
You can create a mod that kills some or all of the NPC's in the course of four hours. I think that has a huge affect on the course of a casual game. 

1) Very tough to program. 4 hours might be enough to do that for some people, I guess, but... extremely doubtful. Anyone who did that would probably be summarily flayed by committee anyway.
2) Has anyone tried to do this in an IM entry?

Most modders who enter IM try to make their entries fit into the game (except for a certain joke entry by Sim last time.) Killing off all, or any, NPCs, is beyond their scope.

Here is the kind of thing all the iron mods I've seen do:
1) Add some dialogue
2) Add one quest
3) Add a cutscene
4) A combination thereof
... that's all I can think of.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: cliffette on October 23, 2004, 07:10:33 PM
 :'(

Julwise, think about it this way:
If you knew what was going to happen in each Iron mod, and installed it and played it, you're going through the motions, not playing. You're rereading a book you've read before. You're watching The Sixth Sense after someone told you the ending. You're not getting the full experience.

The point of the lack of commentary is not to deliberately leave you in the dark out of malice (that's the feeling I'm getting from your posts - that you think people are deliberately ignoring you or refusing to listen to you out of pure stubborness) but to protect your gaming experience. Everyone is trying to help you, not hinder you. But you have to meet us halfway.

As for potentially game-destroying mods, each quest is very short, and it is likely you will have a savegame or autosave nearby. Or you could just uninstall the offending mod in question.

Anyway, I'm done. (Again).
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: julwise on October 23, 2004, 10:13:10 PM
The point of the lack of commentary is not to deliberately leave you in the dark out of malice (that's the feeling I'm getting from your posts - that you think people are deliberately ignoring you or refusing to listen to you out of pure stubborness) but to protect your gaming experience. Everyone is trying to help you, not hinder you. But you have to meet us halfway.

No no, I don't think people are doing it to be mean or anything. I think they're just standing by their opinion of how Iron Mods are best presented. That's all i'm trying to say. Sorry if it was coming out as being argumentative. If I seemed hostile, it was from slight frustration that I keep trying to explain this, and I keep getting misunderstood and given the same unrelated response. I don't need the other side's opinion explained to me, I understand it. Nor do I aim to change that opinion. All I feel is that we have differing opinions and that they are not compatible, nor are they going to become compatible.

If you wish to know more on my opinion, I understand the point about the mods possibly being ruined by more extensive information but for me personally, that's not as true. I often play games knowing "a step ahead" of what is going to happen, and I enjoy playing them that way. It's fine if other people don't agree, i'm willing to respect their opinions if others are willing to respect mine.

Neriana: It is helpful to know what kinds of things the mods add, particularly about dialogues and cutscenes. Because, I don't really know what the scope of the Iron Modder contest is, it's nice to get some information about it.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Quitch on October 24, 2004, 04:52:43 AM
No one is asking for the ins and outs of the mods to be revealed, but if I have no idea what it does then I have nothing to base a want to download on.  As I said, the latest commentry was somewaht better, if a little confusing in parts.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Ghreyfain on October 24, 2004, 11:09:53 AM
There is no space between "what it does" and "the ins and outs" of an Iron Mod.  They've been made in four hours.  You can't exactly get elaborate.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Quitch on October 24, 2004, 12:47:08 PM
I beg to differ.  There's a fair difference between "Imoen talks to X" and "Imoen talks to X about Y" and "Imoen talks to X about Y leading to Z".  Anyone who says otherwise is simply trying to disguise the fact that they don't want to change the system.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Ghreyfain on October 24, 2004, 12:55:38 PM
But "Imoen talks to X" is about as vague as "Input this CLUA command and go to X.Y coordinates".
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Bons on October 24, 2004, 01:12:22 PM
I don't want to change the system.

Ghreyfain's point was that, in most cases, "Imoen talks to X about Y" and "Imoen talks to X about Y leading to Z," gives away the full content of an IM entry. I think we've been pretty straightforward that we would rather keep some things a surprise, even at the risk of confusing people or causing them to not download an IM package.

And for those who really want to know exactly what happens, there is always the option of PMing the author of a component and asking for a full description. You can get more details through private channels. It's harder, in contrast, to take away excess information from the people who did not want to see spoilers in the public forum or ReadMe.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: icelus on October 24, 2004, 01:29:40 PM
I suggest a compromise.

We should add a disclaimer to each individual entry that states "Don't worry.  We promise you that this mod will not format your hard drive."
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: jester on October 24, 2004, 01:46:56 PM
That is exactly what M says about privacy. Somehow I never really trust them. :(
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: SimDing0™ on October 24, 2004, 03:34:45 PM
I can't speak for the other contestants, but I don't WANT people to download my Iron Modder entry, particularly. I'd much rather they played the good stuff that made it into Quest Pack. As such, I don't feel a need to provide a description that motivates anyone to download it.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Andyr on October 24, 2004, 08:07:48 PM
I suggest a compromise.

We should add a disclaimer to each individual entry that states "Don't worry.  We promise you that this mod will not format your hard drive."

But... that was my cunning plan for next time!
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: julwise on October 24, 2004, 08:23:41 PM
I can't speak for the other contestants, but I don't WANT people to download my Iron Modder entry, particularly. I'd much rather they played the good stuff that made it into Quest Pack. As such, I don't feel a need to provide a description that motivates anyone to download it.

ha ha, good point. I suppose that the heart of the Iron Modder contest is an exercise for the entrants to test their skills, and getting people to download it is only a small part.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Quitch on October 25, 2004, 09:29:06 AM
I can't speak for the other contestants, but I don't WANT people to download my Iron Modder entry, particularly. I'd much rather they played the good stuff that made it into Quest Pack. As such, I don't feel a need to provide a description that motivates anyone to download it.

That's why the whole review system should be more detailed.  It's interesting knowing what happened, but is it worth downloading and playing?  Right now the reviews don't tell you, and no one is starting a run through for an IM.

The IMs need to decide what they are.  Little mods, in which case we need to know enough to motivate us to download them, or tests in mod skill, in which case the reviews should give us the full run down.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Ghreyfain on October 25, 2004, 04:46:47 PM
Argh!  Give it up, Quitch.  Our feeble mortal minds can't compete with your super robologic.  You're going to have to accept the fact that you're so much better than us that we'll never fix this horrible problem for fear of being consumed by the raw power of our intellects.
Title: Re: Mod Commentary
Post by: Cuv on October 26, 2004, 05:28:03 PM
ROFL  :o