Pocket Plane Group

Miscellany, Inc. => Ensign First Class Blather => Topic started by: SimDing0 on July 31, 2006, 09:46:28 AM

Title: Twisting Words!
Post by: SimDing0 on July 31, 2006, 09:46:28 AM
In a thread far, far away, I was informed in no uncertain terms that I should:

"Learn that principle is what a real mod author considers when deciding what mod to support for his main project."

Now, me, I took slight issue with the implication that I need to learn how REAL mod authors get their job done.

The question is, am I TWISTING THESE WORDS?
Title: Re: Twisting Words!
Post by: Bex on July 31, 2006, 10:16:09 AM
I don't know, because I am not certain I understand the sentence sufficiently to form an opinion.
Title: Re: Twisting Words!
Post by: NiGHTMARE on July 31, 2006, 10:42:12 AM
On the subject of twisting words, did anyone else notice that Baronius' last post in the once-again closed thread can be made to apply to him with relatively few alterations? In fact, the last seven sentences fit without *any* changes whatsoever!


By closing that thread, Baronius, you totally showed you cannot accept our opinion. You simply cannot accept it.

Your posts were very low. Why? Because as we already noticed, you take words out of context, and twist them.

Quote from: NiGHTMARE
If the only reason someone else's mod doesn't work with yours is that you've included specific code to prevent that other mod working, then of course it's prevention.

Quote from: Baronius
You, who is not the author of the mod, blame him for building a check for the required DB to his mod.

As I already said, I didn't tell anything such what you imply i.e. that including a check for a mod that is required for technical reasons is bad, etc.
All that I expressed that I think a real mod author always considers fact and reality, and doesn't pay attention solely to complaining about things that haven't happened and are highly unlikely ever to happen. Since future can bring new circumstances, general thinking is wiser than judging based solely on the present's practice. This is *my* opinion, and yet you claim it is yours. When you're out of arguments, you try to twist what others say, and pretend that what they *really* said is what you've been saying all along. Shame on you.

Quote from: Baronius
Ask NiGHTMARE, he listed them. E.g. I remember the quest restoration in BD-W 1.6, which NiGHTMARE doesn't consider a fix, so he basically said such thing doesn't belong to the Fixpack. => fixes that won't be present.

Everyone who actually considers taking this seriously (even as an exaggeration, using irony), please scroll back and see that I emphasized it more times, at least twice that it is a complete lie, and I strongly condemned any such actions which are contrary to the author's own Terms of Use.
Yet you still try to imply that other people have said things which they have not. Shame on you.

When I first felt the discussion to have become useless and made a joke, I was criticized as someone who implied things he did not. So I started to reply, hoping that it receives some valid arguments, but the thread had been locked. Now please someone tell me if twisting someone's words on countless occasions instead of any actual arguments can be considered as an honest, fair way of submitting a reply.
You practically negated what you said you were fighting for, i.e. discussion with arguments and counter-arguments. Shame.
And what do I think why you did this? Because you were out of arguments, you couldn't add anything to the topic which would've made any sense. You couldn't accept that your forcing and pressure was useless, and you can't accept that you couldn't force an author do what you expect, and you couldn't prove your viewpoint with valid arguments. Twisting someone's words leads nowhere. Learn how to accept the reality, instead.
Title: Re: Twisting Words!
Post by: the bigg on July 31, 2006, 10:51:58 AM
It's strange seeing NiGHTMARE and SimDing0 in the same boat.
Title: Re: Twisting Words!
Post by: SimDing0 on July 31, 2006, 10:53:27 AM
Maybe so, but while I'm content to make fun of everyone and everything, I don't really want to draw any attention to things I don't believe should get any attention by arguing about them here. :)
Title: Re: Twisting Words!
Post by: berelinde on July 31, 2006, 10:55:44 AM
Um, NiGHTMARE, you might want to identify where you start quoting someone else. It sounds like you are attacking Sim.

I know this thread has made a lot of people unhappy elsewhere, on both sides. I also know the purpose of a forum is to discuss ideas, not to make people happy.

I just feel bad because it seems to be hurting everyone.
Title: Re: Twisting Words!
Post by: NiGHTMARE on July 31, 2006, 10:56:07 AM
It's strange seeing NiGHTMARE and SimDing0 in the same boat.

Sim and I seem to agree on most (though not all) mod-related issues, but precious little else.


Um, NiGHTMARE, you might want to identify where you start quoting someone else. It sounds like you are attacking Sim.

I was repeating something someone else said with a few not-so-subtle changes, not quoting someone.  I'm not really sure how it can come across as attacking Sim, seeing as it quite clearly states who the post is in mockery of, not once but twice.
Title: Re: Twisting Words!
Post by: Evaine Dian on July 31, 2006, 10:56:49 AM
I wasn't surprised to see Nightmare post in a word twisting thread. I've started to like twisting words, too, but I'm not very good at it yet. Maybe I can learn a thing or two here. :)
Title: Re: Twisting Words!
Post by: SimDing0 on July 31, 2006, 10:59:38 AM
Yes, I believe that twisting words is a venerable pasttime--the skill is all in how funny you can be.
Title: Re: Twisting Words!
Post by: Macready on July 31, 2006, 11:00:49 AM
(http://www.usoutpost31.com/pubfiles/blather.png)
Title: Re: Twisting Words!
Post by: NiGHTMARE on July 31, 2006, 11:01:50 AM
Subtly in twisting is also to be commended  Twisting someone else's words without them even noticing it is an admirable achievement.
Title: Re: Twisting Words!
Post by: SimDing0 on July 31, 2006, 11:05:32 AM
Subtly in twisting is also to be commended
but are you saying that this applies to ANYTHING you twist? ARE YOU??!!
Title: Re: Twisting Words!
Post by: Avenger_teambg on July 31, 2006, 12:58:42 PM
Ok, my words, though i'm not really involved:

1. adding stuff to a mod to specifically lock out another mod is plain silliness. People should make efforts to make stuff as compatible as they could. If they don't want to make something compatible, add a detection in the weidu script (or in non-weidu mods write a detector), and issue a warning. If the player still wants to use BOTH, let them.

2. SimDing0 wrote nice mods.

3. SimDing0 is still a jerk.

I hope my words were straight :)

[edit]
I don't know what the "low populist tool who simply CANNOT ACCEPT IT" means, so i translated it to 'jerk'.
Title: Re: Twisting Words!
Post by: Evilyn on August 01, 2006, 01:04:21 AM
I voted "No" because though I have no idea what da hell it's all about (apart from some flamery funnery) I do think SimDing0 is a nice feller. Well skilled, too. (Awrite, that's the flattery over and done.)

At least I hope I voted "No" but seeing the result I fear I may have hit the wrong button. Many pardons, if so.
Title: Re: Twisting Words!
Post by: melora on August 01, 2006, 08:17:11 AM
i must abstain from voting.... because i am totally confused ! (as usual)
Title: Re: Twisting Words!
Post by: Jab on August 02, 2006, 03:22:34 AM
As I said on BWL, I don't know, who was right (Baronius or Sim or Nightmare or...). But at the end, you just took one sentence of long "article" and then used it. In my view, it wasn't a correct way of responding.
I don't think, that Baronius wanted to insult you.
Both sides had their arguments and I don't think, than only one of you was right. As I said, more views produce more ideas. No need of flames...
Sometimes, you (I mean mod authors) take your work too seriously. It should be entertainment. But some of you need to learn diplomatic skill.  ;)
Title: Re: Twisting Words!
Post by: Drew on August 02, 2006, 02:32:41 PM
Sometimes, you (I mean mod authors) take your work too seriously. It should be entertainment. But some of you need to learn diplomatic skill.  ;)
Baronius comes to mind, here.  It is reasonable to expect some sort of factual substantiation when making the argument that creativity is being stunted because we aren't arbitrarily sabotaging each others mods by creating compatibility issues that don't even exist.  Adding code to your mod with the express intent of making it incompatible with another mod (perhaps on the off-chance that, someday, there may be a compatibility issue) only makes sense to Baronius and Vlad.  :-\
Title: Re: Twisting Words!
Post by: TormentedDragon on August 02, 2006, 09:11:00 PM
Y'know, the whole concept of the modder adding code to specifically lock out other mods is rather insulting to the players.

Why? It assumes that they're all total idiots who can't look into possible compatibility problems on their own. It also assumes that none of us have the common sense to realize that having more than one mod installed might possibly create some problems, and then assumes that, should we run into such problems, we'll all immediately grab our torches and pitchforks and lynch the modders.

Give us some credit, here. A lot of us probably had to learn the hard way about compatibility problems (I did), but we aren't going to lynch the modders for said problems. At least, most of us won't. You have your occasional screwball who will, but they don't really matter.

Bah. That's all I have to say on the matter.

Edit: Sim, I was compelled to vote yes. May your foolish populist ways bring about your downfall.[/sarcasm]
Title: Re: Twisting Words!
Post by: Joe on August 02, 2006, 10:46:14 PM
It's funny that political debates were frowned upon here while in their absence I so often find threads here chronicling the childish bickering and inter-forum slap-fights between modders.

You're all adults, yes?
Title: Re: Twisting Words!
Post by: Drew on August 03, 2006, 12:44:10 AM
Most of us.  If you read through the linked thread, it'll be pretty clear who the adults are.
Title: Re: Twisting Words!
Post by: Dark Raven on August 03, 2006, 07:52:34 AM
Vastly amusing it is.
Title: Re: Twisting Words!
Post by: Regullus on August 03, 2006, 03:38:58 PM
It's funny that political debates were frowned upon here while in their absence I so often find threads here chronicling the childish bickering and inter-forum slap-fights between modders.


That would be odd if these forums were political/religious debate and discussion forums however as these forums are devoted to IE modding and modders, it's not that peculiar, no matter how obscure, tedious, convoluted, long, and yea, even childish the discussion might be.

Of course, if you have a burning religious/political/ethical topic not involving modding, you may start a topic at Coffeetalk. That place is never as defunct as it should be. I gather there is a new skin is in the works that incorporates the universal themes of coffee, the color pink and public nudity - or so it is rumored, it might be vaporware, I think the designer is having RL concerns. :(
Title: Re: Twisting Words!
Post by: Ashara on August 04, 2006, 08:56:21 AM
The good part are the subtle ironies, such as the difference between the reason for the flame war to break out and the excuse to start it; and my personal favorite in this particular one was that nobody brought up the FotD, which could have been a lovely twist.  :)
Title: Re: Twisting Words!
Post by: Echon on August 06, 2006, 09:15:44 AM
The good part are the subtle ironies, such as the difference between the reason for the flame war to break out and the excuse to start it; and my personal favorite in this particular one was that nobody brought up the FotD, which could have been a lovely twist.  :)

Eh? Could you elaborate on this?

-Echon
Title: Re: Twisting Words!
Post by: Bex on August 06, 2006, 10:38:46 AM
I'll go out on a limb and suggest that since the argument is/was ostensibly about mod compatibility, bringing FotD and Tutu into it could have opened whole new realm of entertaining shit-slinging.
Title: Re: Twisting Words!
Post by: SimDing0 on August 06, 2006, 04:37:29 PM
In a thrilling turn of events, it seems you can now add blackmail to my list of guilty pleasures!
Title: Re: Twisting Words!
Post by: SimDing0 on August 06, 2006, 05:28:50 PM
And much to my disappointment, Baronius is threatening to stop servicing me.

(I probably shouldn't bother posting regular updates on how banned I am.)
Title: Re: Twisting Words!
Post by: Bex on August 06, 2006, 07:09:19 PM
Heh. Servicing.
Title: Re: Twisting Words!
Post by: Avenger_teambg on August 07, 2006, 02:10:21 AM
I'll go out on a limb and suggest that since the argument is/was ostensibly about mod compatibility, bringing FotD and Tutu into it could have opened whole new realm of entertaining shit-slinging.
Then throw in TDD for completeness' sake.
Title: Re: Twisting Words!
Post by: CORVIS TERRIBLE MOUNTAIN GOD on August 07, 2006, 04:23:47 AM
Then throw in TDD for completeness' sake.

TDD isn't even compatible with itself.

That sounds familiar so I may be stealing it from someone.
Title: Re: Twisting Words!
Post by: SimDing0 on August 07, 2006, 02:29:45 PM
On the contrary, I suggest we now return to our regular schedule of comedy!
Title: Re: Twisting Words!
Post by: Macready on August 07, 2006, 02:51:47 PM
I still ... Wasting so much time for nonsense.

I don't need ... intelligent readers.

Many people ... don't visit us regularly or at all.

The purpose of our forum is to ... read our rules

However, when someone is asked to follow our rules ... he does the exact opposite ... there is no other choice ..we would never want to

I don't doubt that BWL has mistakes. And not just a few. It cannot be perfect, as it is ... operated by ... machines.

tearing this post of mine into pieces ... useful pastime, undoubtedly.
Title: Re: Twisting Words!
Post by: jastey on August 07, 2006, 03:54:57 PM
Macready: That was the best on-topic post of the thread. I can't stop laughing. ;D
Title: Re: Twisting Words!
Post by: Ashara on August 08, 2006, 10:10:51 AM
Quote
Then throw in TDD for completeness' sake.

Not enough subtle irony though...
Title: Re: Twisting Words!
Post by: TormentedDragon on August 09, 2006, 03:30:59 PM
*shakes head* silly children. Caring is such a foolish endeavor.