Pocket Plane Group
BG1 Completed Mods => BG1 Unfinished Business => BG1UB Workroom => Topic started by: SixOfSpades on March 16, 2006, 02:35:35 PM
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This list will grow / mutate as I remember things.
1: Cut "The Vampire's Revenge" completely if we cannot think up an implementation that is not total shit.
2: Remove the duplicate Longbow of Marksmanship from one of the Firewine ghosts, or at least make it non-pickpocketable.
3: Do something about the fact that roughly 40% of Nashkel's population is named Lahl.
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1: Cut "The Vampire's Revenge" completely if we cannot think up an implementation that is not total shit.
It's in the game and works. Don't take the armor and idol to Ulcaster.
2: Remove the duplicate Longbow of Marksmanship from one of the Firewine ghosts, or at least make it non-pickpocketable.
Ice can check. Where is the other one?
3: Do something about the fact that roughly 40% of Nashkel's population is named Lahl.
Already done.
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Ditto.
The Longbow of Marksmanship was something I meant to do, and then forgot. I'll just swap it for a more generic one.
EDIT: Keep listing your nitpicks, though. I'm sure we'll implement many of them. I agree that things like "The Vampire's Revenge" are sucky, but perhaps at some point a "Shit-Be-Gone" mod can be made, encompassing such horrible things like the Golden Pantaloons and Throne of Bhaal.
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2: Remove the duplicate Longbow of Marksmanship from one of the Firewine ghosts, or at least make it non-pickpocketable.
OK, I've replaced this with a Long Bow +1.
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Vampire's Revenge. If you ask me, the quickest and easiest "Shit-Be-Gone" is to make one little cut in Ulcaster's script. If we're looking at the things that BioWare didn't implement into the game and judging them based on whether or not they suck, then we should also give the things that BioWare did implement the same treatment.
Firewine Bow. The "genuine" Longbow of Marksmanship is dropped by the Hobgoblin Elite in Tazok's tent, I think his name is Hakt. Replacing the copy with a Longbow+1 resolves the issue of duplicating a supposedly unique item, but leaves us with the issue of pickpocketing material items from noncorporeal beings.
The Golden Pantaloons are not horrible, in fact they're one of the best things in the entire series. It's the BMU that sucks. Just FYI, the description of the Golden Pantaloons mentions "Nickel Panties" instead of ToB's "Bronze Pantalettes."
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The mod is called Unfinished Business for a reason. If you do not want your party to have Vampire's Revenge, do not bring those items to Ulcaster. There is no reason for this mod to cut that item.
-Echon
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The bow on the Ghost Knight is now flagged as unstealable.
I'm not going to make any changes to Ulcaster or the Vampire's Revenge.
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Are you guys saying that you can get your hands on the Vampires Revenge in the unmodded game? I've never seen it.
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You have to bring the Ancient Armor and the Idol to Ulcaster and he swaps them for the sword.
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The bow on the Ghost Knight is now flagged as unstealable.
Are you sure that the unstealable flag works in BG? I honestly can't remember...
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I am sure of nothing. :)
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It works.
-Echon
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You have to bring the Ancient Armor and the Idol to Ulcaster and he swaps them for the sword.
And I believe you have to do it before you return his book to him, or it won't work.
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That makes no difference. The Doomsayer has to be dead, though.
-Echon
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Are you sure that the unstealable flag works in BG? I honestly can't remember...
I think (but have no means of proving) BG1 uses the same "pickpocket-legal" method as BG2: The position of the item on the target's body. Items in the Head, Armor, Belt, Boots, Shield, and Equipped Weapon slots cannot be pickpocketed. Which can actually cause the game to crash sometimes, if you pickpocket somebody's non-equpped weapon and they later try to switch to the weapon that they no longer have.
The Doomsayer has to be dead, though.
Really? Never heard/experienced that, but you may be right.
Looks like I'll have to fix the Vampire's Revenge in my own mod, where I place it in the current location of the Mace of Disruption. Yay for fixing two bad BioWare decisions at the same time.
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I think (but have no means of proving) BG1 uses the same "pickpocket-legal" method as BG2: The position of the item on the target's body. Items in the Head, Armor, Belt, Boots, Shield, and Equipped Weapon slots cannot be pickpocketed.
This may be true, but beyond this, items can also be flagged as unstealable.
Really? Never heard/experienced that, but you may be right.
I am. These are the triggers:
Dead("Doomsayer")
PartyHasItem("MISC82")
PartyHasItem("MISC48")
-Echon
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Just in case it got forgotten about, Neb is referred to as a Gnome in BG1, but a Dwarf in BG2. I've also never been too sure about the exact mathematical formula in his "number sequence" question: It's kind of like "the Fibonacci sequence, but -1 at each step," but not quite. Does anybody have a formula that fits Neb's numbers (or vice versa) precisely?
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This may be true, but beyond this, items can also be flagged as unstealable.
Yes, but don't do this--items flagged as unstealable (whether you use the flag in the item or on the creature inventory) retain that flag when the party acquires the item. Sure, no one pickpockets these items from the party, but it's better to move it into an un-picketable slot instead of using this flag.
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How is that a problem?
-Echon
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It makes a party item unstealable when it has no reason to be unstealable, especially given a simpler solution that doesn't introduce a logical fallacy.
Looking back, however, I see I misunderstood--we're discussing an item that is never meant to be acquired by the party, in which case flag away. :)
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It makes a party item unstealable when it has no reason to be unstealable[...]
I am going to repeat my previous question: how is it a problem that the party has an unstealable item?
-Echon
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If you're playing multiplayer with people you don't like? :)
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It makes a party item unstealable when it has no reason to be unstealable[...]
I am going to repeat my previous question: how is it a problem that the party has an unstealable item?
-Echon
Then I'll repeat my answer: it makes a party item unstealable when it has no reason to be unstealable, especially given a simpler solution that doesn't introduce a logical fallacy.
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Also if you kick somebody out who sticks around, and you want that item back.
This only bothers me for unique magical items, not for generic items. An unstealable long bow +1 isn't a big deal to me.
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On the pickpocting issue, I realize that an unstealable Longbow isn't much of an issue, but I'm still with CamDawg: Yay for logic and things making sense. I do have my party Thief pickpocket the other party members now & again, if only to roleplay practicing his skills.
But I just remembered another nitpick: Sarevok's last name. The Iron Throne party in the Undercity refers to him as Sarevok Anchev, which is Rieltar's last name and the name that one assumes Sarevok would have been given when he was adopted. But if you go to the Diviner in Chapter 7 and ask him who's in charge of the Iron Throne, he says it is run by Sarevok Costak. It is possible that Sarevok would have dropped the name Anchev because of its association with a man he despises and is dead by then anyway, but that's highly doubtful, since it's (mostly) on the strength of his relationship with Rieltar that he was able to seize control of the local branch of the Iron Throne and all its assets. So we are left with this possibilty: Because the Diviner is, well, a Diviner, he can know what Sarevok considers his own true name is. He has stopped regarding Rieltar as any sort of father, and so takes a new name: Perhaps his mother's maiden name, as she might very well be his actual mother, and therefore another link with Bhaal.
So what do you all think? Is he Sarevok Anchev in public and Sarevok Costak in private, or should the text be edited so that he's all Anchev, all the time?
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I remember this debate coming up somewhere else, too. Andy might remember, as I seem to recall him posting about it. BG1NPC, perhaps? I don't really care one way or another, so whatever the consensus feels is best is OK by me.
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Always Anchev. I believe Costak is Brunos' last name.
They also switched freely between Rieltar and Reiltar.
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I believe Costak is Brunos' last name.
I think you're right about that. Well spotted. [ADD] And while it's not exactly implausible that Rieltar would have married Brunos's sister, it is a bit of a stretch. [/ADD]
They also switched freely between Rieltar and Reiltar.
His creature name is Rieltar, so that's the one I went with in the new journal--the old one only misspelled it once anyway. I didn't check the other documents, though.
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I remember pointing that out somewhere before and suggesting changing them all to Anchev. There were also instances where Mr Anchev Senior is referred to as Rieltar, and other times Reiltar.
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Regarding the Anchev/Costak stuff... I don't mind making the change, but an NI search didn't come up with a hit for Sarevok Costak (at least not in my game). Looking back, though, I think I might have installed the Baldurdash GTU, which might have made the change. If anyone wants to give me the dialog.tlk string references that need fixing, then that'd be swell.
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1355 They are led by Sarevok Costak.
1359 A man named Sarevok Costak is responsible for the frame.
7238 The seer told us that the leader of the Iron Throne was Sarevok Costak.
7243 The seer tells us that Sarevok Costak was the man who framed us for the murders at Candlekeep.
-Echon
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Awesome, thanks, Echon. :)
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Oooo, another nitpick. When you start the game, the map of Candlekeep is unexplored.
"Hi, I've lived here all my life, but I don't know where anything is." ???
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Sounds fair, SixOfSpades...We should make the Candlekeep area visible since the Prologue.
Speaking of this we might also want to not make it unexplored again once we go back after Gorion's death...
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I don't think Explore() works in BG? I suppose you could fake the big bitmask, but I wouldn't.
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I am sure it does, but even if it did not, you could have the area script cast a Clairvoyance spell.
I do not see what this has to do with Unfinished Business, though.
-Echon
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Seeing as we'd be rectifying what is, after all, a rather silly oversight, and can't affect your odds of beating the game, it seems more like UB or Fixpack stuff than an actual tweak.
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Agreed with SixOfSpades although it suits better the BG1 Fixpack than UB...
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Another Costak/Anchev issue. I think this one proves that Rieltar's last name used to be Costak, before BioWare changed it.
I just talked to Husam, and asked him about the Iron Throne leaders--the big bossh of the whole orrrrnizashion is "Reiltar Costashck." Which shows why BioWare failed to find that particular line when they went through the game changing all the "Reiltar Costak"s into "Rieltar Anchev"s.