Pocket Plane Group
BG2 Completed Mods => Turnabout => Topic started by: jcompton on October 03, 2005, 09:22:11 AM
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At long last, Turnabout, the table-turning add-on for WeiDU-Ascension, is released!
The Turnabout mod adds a new wrinkle to the final fight in Throne of Bhaal, enabling the player to recall dead allies to aid in the battle. The player can choose from a collection of seven NPCs, including the PC's mother and foster father, opening up a wealth of new tactical and roleplaying possibilities for the frantic battle.
For more information and download links, visit the Turnabout home page (http://www.pocketplane.net/turnabout).
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Awesome :) congrats, JC!
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Hurray! For so long I have awaited this glorious day! Now ToB is not a complete and total embarrassment! Huzzah!
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i am so excited !
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Hooray! The only downside to this mod is that you actually have to play ToB to the final battle. I mostly called it a day after I talked to the stone heads.
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TOB Final Save will help you here. If you don't have one, find a friend who does.
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;) Great idea! Thanks again!
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Congrats! And here's my usual plea for a non-NSIS version:
"Plea for a non-NSIS version!" ;D
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Whoa, just when I thought this was dying...
Nice work JC!
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Edit: There was a really fantastic joke about a cat and a five dollar bill here, but I decided it was off-topic, so deleted it. As far as you know.
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Just downloaded and played Turnabout a number of times, and it was a hoot!
Or a blast. Or something. Something really nifty.
Anyway, great job, all! Very fun--thanks!
Tess
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Glad you enjoyed it. :)
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At last,at last mod is here ;D .Maybe in new version you give charname ability to summon Viconia brother,Valas(When you have Viconia in party).
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At last,at last mod is here ;D .Maybe in new version you give charname ability to summon Viconia brother,Valas(When you have Viconia in party).
While interesting I wouldn't want that as his 'thread' (as the fate spirit would put it) isn't linked to Charname directly and Viconia has no power over the essence.
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But in final fight with Mellisan,you not using fate spirit.To ressurect your allies (Xzar,Dynaheir),You use the pool with bhall essence.
Like Mellisan-In ascesion she summon Irenicus and Bohdi.And I mean to summon Vals by charname not by Viconia(she only tell charname about that )
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But in final fight with Mellisan,you not using fate spirit.To ressurect your allies (Xzar,Dynaheir),You use the pool with bhall essence.
Like Mellisan-In ascesion she summon Irenicus and Bohdi.And I mean to summon Vals by charname not by Viconia(she only tell charname about that )
Yeah, but I assume its a similar principle. Amelyssan is drawing on the Bhaal essence to summon those tied to it, the Five (Bhaalspawn) and Irenicus and Bodhi (Both of whom carried the souls of Bhaalspawn in them for a time, and became tied to it).
If you could just summon random dead people it would be ridiculous. To me it makes sense you can only summon those tied to the Bhaalspawn essence or important people in your life i.e. people who's 'destinies were tied to yours'.
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Yes but is a Bhaal essence,and Bhaal was god after all.So he have a possibility to summon, even a random ,dead people
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I think Grim is saying that Ascension only shows evidence of the power extending to those who are linked to Bhaal's blood somehow, so it would be inappropriate to make Viconia's brother available as the sole exception.
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Yes,but the in the pools is essence(power) of god.And god s don't have a problem with resurect or summon people.So if the bhallspawn have the power he (she) don't have this problem too.And if Viconia be with charname in final battle,she might suggested this.
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She's not going to do any such thing, sorry.
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And in next versions?
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The pools only summon the plausibly deceased. IIRC, Valas isn't dead, just changed into a drider.
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But in final fight with Mellisan,you not using fate spirit.To ressurect your allies (Xzar,Dynaheir),You use the pool with bhall essence.
Like Mellisan-In ascesion she summon Irenicus and Bohdi.And I mean to summon Vals by charname not by Viconia(she only tell charname about that )
Then, hey, why not kill Elminster and Khelben and summon them and Szass Tam to your aid? ;) Probably more useful... :)
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Because to summon killed Elminster or Khelben,you will need to fight with them.And to summon Valas and back him into his drow form,you don't need to make another fight.Second: I doubt that Szass Tam will have any interest,in fighting Mellisan,and Valas will have
(become drow again)
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Hmm, what about Viekang? He was killed when Saradush fell, no? As I recall, he was unable to teleport away since Mellisan made him feel "safe"...or some such. And...Gromnir Il-Khan? I recall he was Bhaalspawn too, and not summoned by Mellisan before the final clash, though I could be mistaken.
Hmm, maybe a new topic should be opened for ideas on more ressuractable characters.
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Viekang isn't necessarily dead, there's a way to trigger his teleportation ability in Saradush.
Maybe if you whacked Driz'zt way back in chapter 6 you should be able to summon him too. :-ban
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And in next versions?
No. At no time in Turnabout Version Anything will Viconia's brother, aunt, half-sister or former maid be summonable.
Hmm, maybe a new topic should be opened for ideas on more ressuractable characters.
Be my guest, but it will be at best an academic exercise, because we're not adding any other characters who were not party-joinables.
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Be my guest, but it will be at best an academic exercise, because we're not adding any other characters who were not party-joinables.
This is a very important restriction. Otherwise, Red and I might push for a Chinchilla reviviifivation, and various modding persona would be forced to murderize us.
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Be my guest, but it will be at best an academic exercise, because we're not adding any other characters who were not party-joinables.
I seem to recall a list of all the dead allies that were going to be included, but can't seem to find it anymore. Could it be from the old site? Huh...
But anyway, to my point. All this talk about who can be brought back and who couldn't got me thinkin', and I just want to clarify; Ajantis is going to be included in a future version, right? Faldorn and Safana perhaps, too. What about Tamoko?
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Biff the Understudy!!
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I seem to recall a list of all the dead allies that were going to be included, but can't seem to find it anymore. Could it be from the old site? Huh...
But anyway, to my point. All this talk about who can be brought back and who couldn't got me thinkin', and I just want to clarify; Ajantis is going to be included in a future version, right? Faldorn and Safana perhaps, too. What about Tamoko?
I feel like we discussed Tamoko at one point, or maybe I talked to myself about Tamoko, but I think the chances of that happening are slim. For the Sarevok factor, it could be interesting, but I'm not convinced there's a significant enough tie to the PC. I secretly wish you could bring back Moira for Anomen's sake, but I sometimes have really bad ideas. See above reference to Chinchilla love.
Ajantis and Faldorn will appear in v2. We've talked about Montaron, but that's still at a brainstorming phase, so it would be beyond v2. I still pulled his soundset, so that's practically a commitment that someone will tackle Monty eventually.
Safana, Quayle and Coran are the only remaining candidates who can die under qualifiable circumstances, unless we invent a dire fate for a BG1 joinable NPC who does not appear in unmodded BG2, such as Eldoth, Shar-teel, Alora, Yeslick or Branwen.
Surayah could be a candidate by component, if I ever git 'er done, provided she's been in the party, whacked by Anomen, and not resurrected in the allotted quest time.
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Quayle is still alive, though, while Safana/Coran are more likely to have died.
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Yes, there is a very slim chance of Quayle being dead, but I know I've read Aerie reactions covering that event if it happens during the Kalah quest. I don't think he falls into the completely out of the question category.
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As Turnabout is one of the few mods I will actually install (as soon as the first and second bug reports arrive and are corrected, that is), and I am a hopeless pedant, I feel I must step in. :)
I think it would be good to have only canonically dead characters in here. Ajantis and Faldorn are rather a "mmm... oh, yes, they are dead" case, instead of Dynaheir and Gorion's "Yes, of course they are dead" case. But Quayle, Coran, Eldoth, Tamoko - for me it is a no-no category.
By the way, I listened to the sound files recently - amazing Alianna voice work, better than I have seen in mods anywhere. Clear, close to Bioware, no accent. One or two lines I did not enjoy as much as the others, but anyway, great.
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By the way, I listened to the sound files recently - amazing Alianna voice work, better than I have seen in mods anywhere. Clear, close to Bioware, no accent. One or two lines I did not enjoy as much as the others, but anyway, great.
Thank you. Which lines didn't work well for you? It would be useful info in order to consider room for improvement.
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D1MOTH08 - the last two seconds - "hailed my Lord of Murder with great *joy* at my fate." In Bioware variant, it was more ambiguous for me, showing both joy and sorrow, (and regret on recalling of the memory ). Here it did not work for me, particularly the word "joy". It felt a bit forced.
(My impression story-wise, not to be truly taken into the account: it was a serious and tragic decision, but Alianna said the word in pure, incomplicated, and thus, perhaps, not fully believable joy.)
PGALIA13 - a very impressive line, by the way. The slow sinking in, full of awe (and something else?), but the end of it, "*at last*" was too abrupt, and, perhaps, a bit forced, too. I could see tenderness->viciousness thing, but still, for me it felt too fast, too abrupt.
That's all. Again, amazing, can't stress it enough. (By the way, is it just me, or are PGALIA18 and 19 a bit quieter than the others?)
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D1MOTH08 - the last two seconds - "hailed my Lord of Murder with great *joy* at my fate." In Bioware variant, it was more ambiguous for me, showing both joy and sorrow, (and regret on recalling of the memory ). Here it did not work for me, particularly the word "joy". It felt a bit forced. (My impression story-wise, not to be truly taken into the account: it was a serious and tragic decision, but Alianna said the word in pure, incomplicated, and thus, perhaps, not fully believable joy.)
I want to study that line some more. For the most part, since this was the Bioware material, I was trying to mimic the existing voice actress, but that doesn't mean I didn't let the theme of the added content influence me. I probably was trying to be more of a zealot there.
PGALIA13 - a very impressive line, by the way. The slow sinking in, full of awe (and something else?), but the end of it, "*at last*" was too abrupt, and, perhaps, a bit forced, too. I could see tenderness->viciousness thing, but still, for me it felt too fast, too abrupt.
Oh, ugh. I remember that. The "My Lord of Murder, resurrected at last" portion of that line wast unexpectedly difficult to say. I think /a/ is one of the hardest vowels for me to speak when I'm trying to hide any Southern accent. Maybe the line just needs to be reworded so I can actually say it.
That's all. Again, amazing, can't stress it enough. (By the way, is it just me, or are PGALIA18 and 19 a bit quieter than the others?)
I seem to remember toning down one of those for some reason -- the "To look at you now..." line. I can look at the levels again without any trouble.
Thanks for the feedback!
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I think it would be good to have only canonically dead characters in here. Ajantis and Faldorn are rather a "mmm... oh, yes, they are dead" case, instead of Dynaheir and Gorion's "Yes, of course they are dead" case. But Quayle, Coran, Eldoth, Tamoko - for me it is a no-no category.
I am assuming you sorted that because Gorion and Dynaheir both die in the main plot and Ajantis and Faldorn die due to sidequests, yes? But I would think that if Xzar is included, then Ajantis would be, too. You cannot enter the Windspear Hills at all without killing Ajantis, so I would expect more people to kill him than have Xzar die.
But anyway, it's a pointless discussion, I would think...
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Tameon, I think you misunderstand. I meant that having Ajantis, Faldorn, Xzar and whoever were dead in the mod for sure is OK for me.
But having a character who is not canonically dead - Tamoko, for example, or Coran, or Branwen in the mod for me automatically means I will not play it: from a possible addition to the canon, it becomes a clear fanon.
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Yes, there is a very slim chance of Quayle being dead, but I know I've read Aerie reactions covering that event if it happens during the Kalah quest. I don't think he falls into the completely out of the question category.
Oh, I didn't realise it was possible for Quayle to die during that sequence...
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Tameon, I think you misunderstand. I meant that having Ajantis, Faldorn, Xzar and whoever were dead in the mod for sure is OK for me.
But having a character who is not canonically dead - Tamoko, for example, or Coran, or Branwen in the mod for me automatically means I will not play it: from a possible addition to the canon, it becomes a clear fanon.
Ah, I see. Yeah, I misunderstood you.
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Yes, there is a very slim chance of Quayle being dead, but I know I've read Aerie reactions covering that event if it happens during the Kalah quest. I don't think he falls into the completely out of the question category.
Oh, I didn't realise it was possible for Quayle to die during that sequence...
Well, Aerie has a lot of dialogue that includes the possiblity of Quayle being dead.
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She does, although in practice it's virtually impossible for Quayle to die in that fight unless you actually chip in and kill him yourself.
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Can the party summon the Tarrasque if they killed it in the Oasis?
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*Naturally.
Edit: Oh, but only if you did so by following the friendship dialogue track, instead of just killing it.
*There is no tarrasque.
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And if I used Infravision before he had the chance to initiate dialogue?
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Infravision is the only way to see it...
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I mean, I used infravision on the Tarrasque itself.
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Then yes. I mean, uh, you mean you didn't see that Turnabout content already?
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I haven't managed to install it yet. I couldn't find the right button in the dark.
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*nods* Indeed, Ajantis and Faldorn make sense. Quayle does too, even though the chance is slim.
Merella, the Umar Hills ranger, always dies, as I recall. Same goes for Phaere, I think. But no, you're right. Adding non-joinable characters will create an endless list that would eventually contain characters like Firkraag, Saemon Havarian, Biff the Understudy, Raelis Shai, Rejiek Hidesman, Darsidiam Moor, Maria Firecam, Lady Delcia Caan, Tor'Gal, the chinchilla Bhaalspawn, Arin Linvail, Sime, and so forth. Er...no thanks. 'Twould be too much trouble than it's worth, aye?
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Biff the Understudy is joinable. When I've played BG1, he joins my party far more often than, say, Khalid.
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I've never had that happen, and I assume it's a bug (as in, Bioware never intended Biff to become a full joinable NPC.). I haven't had it happen in BGII either. If you kill him in the playhouse, he'd fall under the same category as Firkraag, Arin Linvail, Habib, etc.
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In BG1, he's not an actual character like in BG2. He's just there to say the lines of NPC pairs, when one of the pair is absent. If the dialogue he appears in is one where NPC's join, then he will join your party. I liked it, and he had a great portrait.
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So far i manage to see Dynaheir, Tiax and Xzar endings.
What order do i need spawn these characters, to get a certain ending? Example: Khalid, i haven't figure out how to trigger his ending yet. I did get the dialog that *hints* to something for a ending.
Throne of Bhaal Graph
A*
M* "Melissian"
B*
C*
And now for discussing Npcs Summons! Asumming that the rules only apply to summoning death npcs
1. Ajantis Ilvastarr - is 100% a must!
2. Alora - Not Dead!
3. Coran - No, because he can be saved!
4. Kivan - Not Dead!
5. Yeslick Orothiar - Not Dead!
6. Branwen - Not Dead!
7. Garrick - Not Dead
8. Faldorn - is dead and is a must!
9. Quayle - Not Dead!
10. Safana - is dead and theres no way to prevert her death. So she's a must!
11. Skie Silvershield - Not Dead!
12. Xan - Not Dead!
13. Eldoth Kron - Not Dead!
14. Kagain - Not Dead!
15. Montaron - Is 100% a must!
16. Shar-Teel Dosan - Not Dead!
17. Biff the Understudy - Not Dead!
So basicly, anyone who isn't dead shouldn't be in the Turnabout!
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Actually, yeah--Gromnir might very well be quite willing to have a crack at pretty Melissan, who lies and decieves. Only problem is, is he going to be angrier at Melissan, who lured him into a deathtrap, or at CHARNAME, who killed him? There's going to have to be some pretty tricky INT/WIS/CHA and maybe STR checks in this dialogue, and even then his final decision should probably depend on a random chance.
The other Bhaalspawn you fight in ToB (except Chinchilla & Company) are off-limits, as the offer to serve under Amelysan as demigods is much more appealing than an offer to turn against her and most likely die.
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I don't think having Tomoko resurrectable is that much of a stretch - after all, you can resurrect both Gorion and Alianna who were never joinable NPCs but are still significant to the PC. And the Sarevok interactions depending on his allignment would be well worth seeing, especially given the way his character arcs.
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That's true, but she is not canonically, "officially" dead. One of Sarevok's epilogues mentions hur burial, but in the end of BG1, the player still has a choice.
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Reading of Tamoko in many posts in the forum, sometimes make me indulge on the thought that it would be good to have a mod to fix inconsistency issue, such as the:
- Gorion's letter (kinda like an extended diary by SixofSpades\date correction mini-mod) to correct what he tells you about your mother.
- Tamoko - making you able even to meet her or whatever, although I understand why the developers left such ambiguity (I doubt that Yoshimo would have joined Irenicus if Tamoko was online), to the point that the fact itself that we can't choose about Tamoko's fate makes the very foundation of baldur's gate tremble.
Was it already decided? What about the history of the gold coin and the fact that our coin had no face? Bah
Any chance that a new version of this mod will never come out? :D