Pocket Plane Group

Miscellany, Inc. => Ensign First Class Blather => Topic started by: jcompton on June 26, 2005, 09:51:15 PM

Title: (The discussion of) "What happened to Studios?"
Post by: jcompton on June 26, 2005, 09:51:15 PM
Edit: Excitement over, Studios works on its new server. http://www.spellholdstudios.net
Title: Re: "What happened to Studios?" FAQ
Post by: devSin on June 26, 2005, 10:01:39 PM
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Quote from: devSin on Today at 07:13:13 PM
I wonder if it was intended that FW be yanked before they got the new stuff online? It was a forum warning "We're moving!" then somebody pulled the plug.
Not in the elast intended.
See, I thought I smelled sour grapes.
Title: Re: "What happened to Studios?" FAQ
Post by: jcompton on June 26, 2005, 10:11:54 PM
"elast"? That'll teach me to pay more attention.
Title: Re: "What happened to Studios?" FAQ
Post by: jcompton on June 26, 2005, 10:14:22 PM
But, yeah. I don't remember the precise wording but various public assurances were made that the domain name would point at the new site for some appreciable length of time.

So, for the second time in about a year, the most well-known URL in Infinity Engine modding has become useless. Which is always really convenient for keeping people engaged and interested, y'know?
Title: Re: "What happened to Studios?" FAQ
Post by: Bex on June 27, 2005, 12:49:21 AM
Pretty much everyone at Planet BaldursGate refers people with questions about mods for the game to the modlist hosted here. I'd say PPG is second only to Baldurdash, as far as providing linkage goes. Once G3's fixpack is ready for wide release, that might change. (It will if I have any say in the matter.)

That said, I don't know if people at Bioware's forums or other communities referenced FWS more. But word will spread. And if we start getting "what happened to...?" questions like those that still crop about about TeamBG, then we'll continue pointing people in new directions.

(Edited because threads I thought were at FWS are actually here. This is what I get for just using the modlist when I need to look something up. I don't know where any of it actually IS.)
Title: Re: "What happened to Studios?" FAQ
Post by: devSin on June 27, 2005, 12:54:18 AM
I guess a preliminary FAQ should at least have a link (http://www.pocketplane.net/) to the new site.
Title: Re: "What happened to Studios?" FAQ
Post by: jcompton on June 27, 2005, 01:06:50 AM
Pretty much everyone at Planet BaldursGate refers people with questions about mods for the game to the modlist hosted here. (Note: make sure the tutorial URLs for clean installs and such get updated!)

Yeah. If you search for the two now-defunct URLs in question, there are about 10 pages worth of posts affected. And a simple find-and-replace isn't the right way to go, actually, because some of the links are now simply dead-dead (those which led to FWP), some are/will be on the new Studios, and some should actually be pointing _here._

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I'd say PPG is second only to Baldurdash, as far as providing linkage goes.  Once G3's fixpack is ready for wide release, that might change. (It will if I have any say in the matter.)

That sounds vaguely like a threat. :)

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That said, I don't know if people at Bioware's forums or other communities referenced FWS more. But word will spread. And if we start getting "what happened to...?" questions like those that still crop about about TeamBG, then we'll continue pointing people in new directions.

Yeah, I know. But the fact is that plenty of people over the past year simply entered a TBG URL into their browser, went nowhere, and went off to play Sims 2 instead. Now that process happens _again._
Title: Re: "What happened to Studios?" FAQ
Post by: jcompton on June 27, 2005, 01:07:54 AM
I guess a preliminary FAQ should at least have a link (http://www.pocketplane.net/) to the new site.

This thread won't be around once the site is back up.

And you linked to PPG. :)
Title: Re: "What happened to Studios?" FAQ
Post by: devSin on June 27, 2005, 01:17:47 AM
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I'd say PPG is second only to Baldurdash, as far as providing linkage goes. Once G3's fixpack is ready for wide release, that might change. (It will if I have any say in the matter.)
Baldurdash will be dead and buried and re-direct to GeorgeWBush.gov and people will still be hailing it as the second coming.
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This thread won't be around once the site is back up.
Honor the memory of FW* by locking it, I say.
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And you linked to PPG.
I didn't say *I* was going to provide a link, just that one should be posted. 'Twas merely an example for whichever industrious soul is willing to point people in the right direction. ;)
Title: Re: "What happened to Studios?" FAQ
Post by: Bex on June 27, 2005, 02:16:35 AM
I'd say PPG is second only to Baldurdash, as far as providing linkage goes. Once G3's fixpack is ready for wide release, that might change. (It will if I have any say in the matter.)

That sounds vaguely like a threat. :)

Heh. Maybe I should start threatening to take away people's game discs when they come around whining about TDD not working right too, eh?
Title: Re: "What happened to Studios?" FAQ
Post by: jester on June 27, 2005, 04:13:25 AM
I cannot help but get the impression that the guy previous known as 'the one who called the shots at FWMC' made everything in his power to prevent a smooth transition to Spellhold Studios. Cutting off a major community without at least a month of overlap is something that shows me again how much this person cares for the community itself.
(Close all fora and point everybody to the new location, but don't leave everybody helpless and wondering where that toolthread/advice/other thread just went that they only posted in/relied upon yesterday.)
Some might consider his actions to be meanspirited at best and would consider him a major pr*ck for this, but not me as I never swear in public. ::) Thanks for SConrad (and that he took over and tries and tried everthing to make this a smooth transition and keep the boat afloat nevertheless.
Although it is a major hassle to run a forum and it should be widely acknowledged that the guys who run the database also get to have the final say, I strongly believe that a forum is a community effort and does not just belong to the ones who 'own' the database and as it seems its content.
Title: Re: "What happened to Studios?" FAQ
Post by: Neil on June 27, 2005, 05:11:12 AM
The person who called the shots as you put it did not call this one.
Title: Re: "What happened to Studios?" FAQ
Post by: SimDing0 on June 27, 2005, 05:29:09 AM
Well, either the Telefragged staff browse the site frequently enough to have a 15 minute response time to an announcement, or somebody told them to shut the site down. Do you have any idea what caused it? (And, of course, you still own the domain, so presumably it can still be redirected to the new site-- since it's not doing much good right now. :))
Title: Re: "What happened to Studios?" FAQ
Post by: Neil on June 27, 2005, 05:40:09 AM
Yeah I know why, seb had already grabbed the database and its a 200 odd mb file, off the webservers that gets noticed when they are meant to have no downloads, TF don't want to leave a site up redirecting to another, can't say I blame them, I wouldnt either, and yes the domain is still going to be pointed at the new place, I even offered to help seb setup the forum.
Title: Re: "What happened to Studios?" FAQ
Post by: SimDing0 on June 27, 2005, 05:46:47 AM
Okay, glad to hear it.
Title: Re: "What happened to Studios?" FAQ
Post by: Neil on June 27, 2005, 05:51:05 AM
Only thing is the domains will be dead two days because of the dns updates
Title: Re: "What happened to Studios?" FAQ
Post by: jester on June 27, 2005, 06:01:32 AM
Well then I redirect my wrath to the telefrag people which only takes me second. Thanks for clearing things up.
Title: Re: "What happened to Studios?" FAQ
Post by: Neil on June 27, 2005, 06:12:46 AM
They dont really deserve it, lets face it fw has run at a loss for years, nobody clicks the banners so they could never pay the bw the site used, would you want to keep paying money? I wouldn't. Lets say 1000000 page views a month are made redirecting to the new site, at 30k+ a view with no banner revenue it ads up to alot of bw not being paid for. TF have said they will let the 3dd account to be kept (3dd has tons of ads :P), I know you lot don't like 3dd but its free and for some big stuff it is better than nothing.
Title: Re: "What happened to Studios?" FAQ
Post by: jester on June 27, 2005, 06:43:54 AM
I am surprised they did not shut down the site after a year or so when the clickthrough ratings came in. If they do not put a banner on the redirect page the BW-amount is small and I would doubt 1000000 people after a week or so, if it is sufficiently published and Spellhold catches the traffic as they include 'forgottenwars' into their metakeywords and over time Google will adapt. Also I consider it weird that a site which cannot be blamed for a serious decline of revenue should be shut down by telefragged the second it changes 'owners'. What business model is behind this idea? So the reasoning behind this escapes me somewhat. Quarter results? On June 26th?? Since they never made any money they could have let the site up and running as a personal favour. I would have done that, if I ever had agreed to host it in the first place.
Title: Re: "What happened to Studios?" FAQ
Post by: SConrad on June 27, 2005, 06:56:09 AM
Thank you for your patience. I very much hope we can get the forum online as soon as possible (not to mention the fact that I'm taking the early flight to the States tomorrow morning).

The database issues has now been solved, and I just have to 'trim' the settings and so on before I can take the board online. :)

[A]s far as I can tell SConrad decided to take a nap at 4 AM his time rather than plod on and risk making one of those embarrassing sleep-deprivation mistakes.

That is correct, yes. :)

Title: Re: "What happened to Studios?" FAQ
Post by: CoM_Solaufein on June 27, 2005, 07:00:35 AM
Yes I faintly recall how TF likes to bury the corpse before it is even cold.  ::)
Title: Re: "What happened to Studios?" FAQ
Post by: Neil on June 27, 2005, 08:45:16 AM
I am surprised they did not shut down the site after a year or so when the clickthrough ratings came in. If they do not put a banner on the redirect page the BW-amount is small and I would doubt 1000000 people after a week or so, if it is sufficiently published and Spellhold catches the traffic as they include 'forgottenwars' into their metakeywords and over time Google will adapt. Also I consider it weird that a site which cannot be blamed for a serious decline of revenue should be shut down by telefragged the second it changes 'owners'. What business model is behind this idea? So the reasoning behind this escapes me somewhat. Quarter results? On June 26th?? Since they never made any money they could have let the site up and running as a personal favour. I would have done that, if I ever had agreed to host it in the first place.


Nothing on tf has ever paid the bw bills, the ads help a little but Marv basically pays it out of his own pocket, most of the people on fw blocked banners and adds, hell some of the staff told people where to get addons to block the ads, no add view no ad revenue, after Marv got a phonecall from jason trying to get the old database he was very pissed, since someone else had already asked and been told no. He doesnt like people searching out his private phone no and calling him trying to trick him, I really don't blame him there either.
Title: Re: (The discussion of) "What happened to Studios?"
Post by: SimDing0 on June 27, 2005, 08:51:49 AM
The "someone else" who tried to obtain the database wouldn't have been the legitimate Forgotten Wars administrator at the time, would he? He was certainly interested in having the FWP data, yet for some reason it wasn't made available. I think if the Telefragged admins are going to get pissed when site owners, or people helping them out, try to obtain their own data, then they should strongly consider a different career path.
Title: Re: (The discussion of) "What happened to Studios?"
Post by: NiGHTMARE on June 27, 2005, 09:02:24 AM
If I'm reading Neil's post correctly, it's how Marv was contacted that got him pissed, not what he was contacted about.
Title: Re: (The discussion of) "What happened to Studios?"
Post by: SimDing0 on June 27, 2005, 09:03:50 AM
I'm told that there's no way to directly contact the site owners-- the contact details for the domain are their dad's or something.
Title: Re: (The discussion of) "What happened to Studios?"
Post by: Neil on June 27, 2005, 09:39:22 AM
No, it wasnt the legit site owner, since the only legit site owner of that site was me, also it wasn't the legit site owner of the studios site.
Title: Re: (The discussion of) "What happened to Studios?"
Post by: jcompton on June 27, 2005, 10:05:33 AM
Telefragged felt so strongly about it that they still have "Forgotten Wars: The Home of all CRPG modding" blazed on their hosted sites list? My, that's odd.

http://www.telefragged.com/network

Title: Re: (The discussion of) "What happened to Studios?"
Post by: SimDing0 on June 27, 2005, 10:28:29 AM
No, it wasnt the legit site owner, since the only legit site owner of that site was me, also it wasn't the legit site owner of the studios site.
But you handed FW over to Mr. Conrad. I think it's rather a stretch to expect everybody to realise that he wasn't *actually* in charge.
Title: Re: (The discussion of) "What happened to Studios?"
Post by: jester on June 27, 2005, 10:47:15 AM

Telefragged felt so strongly about it that they still have "Forgotten Wars: The Home of all CRPG modding" blazed on their hosted sites list? My, that's odd.
http://www.telefragged.com/network

It just tells the frequent users that the people in charge are amateurs at best. Why keep the link when you intentionally block the access?? If it was a housecleaning, this should be somewhat near the top of the list. Just like Forgottenwars is as number 4!
Title: Re: (The discussion of) "What happened to Studios?"
Post by: Neil on June 27, 2005, 11:07:52 AM
Telefragged felt so strongly about it that they still have "Forgotten Wars: The Home of all CRPG modding" blazed on their hosted sites list? My, that's odd.

http://www.telefragged.com/network



Not really since the site is pauls dept and paul isnt around right now, and wrong again jason, I first gave admin to seb to run the forum WITH hlid, I retained ownership.
Title: Re: (The discussion of) "What happened to Studios?"
Post by: SimDing0 on June 27, 2005, 11:14:24 AM
I first gave admin to seb to run the forum WITH hlid, I retained ownership.
In which case there appears to have been a misunderstanding all along regarding who was running what. Either way, it seems unfair to accuse people of trying to "steal" the data. Put in SC's position, I'd certainly have had an interest in the database, and were I unable to procure it or contact the owners directly myself, I would feel quite legitimate in having somebody else do it on my behalf. Like I say, evidently a number of people misinterpreted your intent in handing over administration of the forum.
Title: Re: (The discussion of) "What happened to Studios?"
Post by: Neil on June 27, 2005, 11:24:59 AM
Sim, Seb only wanted the database to my old forum after jason asked him for it, before that it had been dead for a year or so, he was told nobody could have it yet he then tried getting it from Marv anyway, only after jason had tried getting it without anyones permission and failed I might add, then jason comes along and calls Marv, well Marv's dad and tries getting a db he does not own and has no right to. Where I come from trying to take something that you know does not belong to you after you have been told "No you can't have it" is stealing. Sorry Attempted Stealing since they failed. Marv was all for deleting the place that night because from what I gather jason tried to make it sound like he was working on behalf of seb. There is was and will be only one owner of that fwp website and database and that is me.
Title: Re: (The discussion of) "What happened to Studios?"
Post by: jcompton on June 27, 2005, 11:30:14 AM
And we're all very impressed at how big that makes you, Neil.
Title: Re: (The discussion of) "What happened to Studios?"
Post by: SimDing0 on June 27, 2005, 11:30:43 AM
So "Marv" wanted to delete the site because somebody rang up on behalf of the site administrator and asked for an old database? I sure am glad I moved off Telefragged.
Title: Re: (The discussion of) "What happened to Studios?"
Post by: Neil on June 27, 2005, 11:34:32 AM
No,Marv was angry that someone he didnt know and hadnt given a contact no searched one out and called his dad's private no trying to get something for someone who Marv knew did NOT own it. the old fwp website and forum are not the same site as the one I turned over to Seb to run.
Title: Re: (The discussion of) "What happened to Studios?"
Post by: SimDing0 on June 27, 2005, 11:36:32 AM
Okay, so he decided to shut it down because he was angry at somebody who didn't own the site. Even better.
Title: Re: (The discussion of) "What happened to Studios?"
Post by: Neil on June 27, 2005, 11:39:21 AM
*shrugs* Marv can be easy to pissoff when someone is being an ass.
Title: Re: (The discussion of) "What happened to Studios?"
Post by: jcompton on June 27, 2005, 11:42:31 AM
I attempted to contact Telefragged about the recovery of a database. I can hardly help it if "Telefragged LLC"'s contact information is their dad's house.
Title: Re: (The discussion of) "What happened to Studios?"
Post by: Neil on June 27, 2005, 11:43:47 AM
A database you did not own and had no right to, dont forget to mention that part Jason.

there are contact emails on the tf website not a phone no.
Title: Re: (The discussion of) "What happened to Studios?"
Post by: jcompton on June 27, 2005, 11:50:25 AM
I think the question of who actually "owned" Forgotten Wars has been played out pretty extensively and to my considerable satisfaction, thanks.
Title: Re: (The discussion of) "What happened to Studios?"
Post by: SimDing0 on June 27, 2005, 11:56:31 AM
While we're here, Neil, I was wondering if you'd be able to recover a post from the Oversight forum in which Kevin Dorner examined some of the alignment decisions in the mod? I don't believe there's any other record of his comments, and it'd prove useful for future mod development. Thanks.
Title: Re: (The discussion of) "What happened to Studios?"
Post by: jester on June 27, 2005, 12:00:20 PM
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...and tries getting a db he does not own and has no right to. ....There is was and will be only one owner of that fwp website and database and that is me.

Although it might still be a quirky thought for some. Running a database with content that is a community effort does not make you the owner of that content. Domain name? Yes, certainly. Database? Absolutely, since you set it up. Content? Absolutely not! What about mod content, artwork, advice, any other sort of information contributed by the members of a community?
 It is not about guarding a business secret as the content of the database is downloadable for all while it is running. It is about a punch in the face of everybody who shared and contributed something.

I think it was about time to say byebye to Marv and set up a new forum. One more reason I cannot feel regret that there is a new chapter of the story about to begin.
Title: Re: (The discussion of) "What happened to Studios?"
Post by: Neil on June 27, 2005, 12:10:48 PM
Sim, I will look into it.

Jester I never said content, never claimed any mods artwork or anything else, as the owner of the hosting account I am however the only one who has the right to contact telefragged and try recovering the database.
Title: Re: (The discussion of) "What happened to Studios?"
Post by: KIrving on June 27, 2005, 05:57:31 PM
Sim, I will look into it.

Jester I never said content, never claimed any mods artwork or anything else, as the owner of the hosting account I am however the only one who has the right to contact telefragged and try recovering the database.
*rant*
Well if the database isn't going to be recovered and/or made accessible to the community at large than it might as well be deleted. It seems like a carrot is being held out without any intention of giving it, a powerplay that smacks of childishness.*end rant* Sorry if this offends anyone but my blood was up.

Thanks JC for the link to the new site. :)