Pocket Plane Group

BG2 Completed Mods => Unfinished Business => Topic started by: icelus on April 03, 2004, 07:46:29 PM

Title: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: icelus on April 03, 2004, 07:46:29 PM
This is a list of a few of the things we've discovered have been cut (or planned and never implemented) by Bioware for the Throne of Bhaal portion of the game:

-Sarevok's remorse for Tamoko and Yoshimo
-Mazzy's redemption of Korgan
-The Cold Mistress in Saradush
-The return of Yoshimo (not likely...)
-Saemon disguising party as monks
-More obvious clue for WK
-Bounty hunters
-Melissan turning your friends
-Illasera's return
-The yellow dragon and his eggs
-Extended item descriptions
-Cespenar's Flask

.mht archives of the original threads can be downloaded here (http://icelus.net/misc/ub-tob.zip).
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: jester on April 03, 2004, 07:55:51 PM
Quote
-Cespenar's Flask
What for since you have the PP?

Quote
--Illasera's return
At last a worthy incest candidate? Not joinable :( I presume
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: SilfairŽ on April 07, 2004, 02:35:00 PM
-Mazzy's redemption of Korgan
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: SilfairŽ on April 07, 2004, 02:39:44 PM
Sorry, no edit option on this board so regarding the above post, does this mean that Korgan can change alignment?? If so, I wouldn't think that would be possible. Now, Serevok is a completely different story because after he dies, he is resurrected with part of your soul.

I can't see any reason whatsoever for Korgan to change alignment though. I can't even imagine Korgan being a goody two shoes, can you?
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: jcompton on April 07, 2004, 03:47:26 PM
It seems likely that Bioware intended for Mazzy to "redeem" Korgan. In the midst of their tenuous flirtation, he does agree to try to be nicer for her sake. There are lines in TOB coded for a CG Korgan. It would certainly take additional dialogue, however, to convince players that a real sea change had occurred in Mr. Bloodaxe's heart and mind.

And BTW, you'd be able to edit your posts if you registered your account. I cannot offhand think of many boards that allow guests to edit guest posts because... there's no authentication of identity.
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: NiGHTMARE on April 07, 2004, 03:57:28 PM
If this component is ever written & included in UB, I vote for the change to be to CN rather than CG (since the latter would be far too drastic) :).
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Kish on April 07, 2004, 04:22:56 PM
Since the change was originally planned to be to CG, I'd say it should be to CG or not at all--changing him to any other alignment would be outside the mandate of Unfinished Business.

That said, I'd advise "not at all."  Sarevok has a good side even when he appears in BG1 (he loves Tamoko) and he has reasons for being messed up, thanks to Rieltar.  Any good side Korgan shows is marginal at best, and he doesn't appear to even have an abusive childhood to explain his turning out bad.
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Caswallon on April 07, 2004, 04:32:37 PM
Yeah. :) Someone (Sim?) said something like this on the old board - sometimes Bioware might have had better reasons to cut a quest than lack of time... discovering that it wasn't that good an idea to begin with, for instance. :)
Now, I certainly won't complain if anyone can write a Korgan-Mazzy "romance" that satisfactorily explains that alignment shift, but to change Korgan to *Good*, it'd certainly need more than a few banters. :)
Mellowing Korgan somewhat might be possible for Mazzy, but not to an extent that justifies such a drastic change, I think.
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Shodan on April 07, 2004, 04:37:48 PM
This is a list of a few of the things we've discovered have been cut (or planned and never implemented) by Bioware for the Throne of Bhaal portion of the game:

-Saemon disguising party as monks

Like the Drow transformation?

Quote
-Illasera's return

We killed her. How can she come back?
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: NiGHTMARE on April 07, 2004, 05:07:21 PM
Since the change was originally planned to be to CG, I'd say it should be to CG or not at all--changing him to any other alignment would be outside the mandate of Unfinished Business.

IMHO simply having him become CN instead of CG would be far less of a change from the original plan than e.g. "Kalah and What He Was Promised" and the ending of "The Kidnapping of Boo" (I'm not complaing about either of them mind, they're my two favourite components ;)).

We killed her. How can she come back?

Normally I'd say through a Raise Dead/Resurrection/Wish spell, but since they apparently don't work on Bhaalspawn, I won't :P. The real excuse is that it wasn't actually her we killed in the grove, but a "sending" (a kind of magical clone) of her.† If I remember correctly, the real Illasera was going to be a powerful sorcereress living somewhere below Saradush.
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Barren on April 07, 2004, 07:11:23 PM
Apparently the Illasera you killed was a simulacrum (the real one being a ranger-mage),

About Korgan and Mazzy, we never had any proof that there was something, right?
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: jester on April 07, 2004, 07:24:38 PM
@ -Mazzy's redemption of Korgan

For some interesting views on redemption in general try this: http://forums.spellholdstudios.net/index.php?showtopic=7041

I think it is a blunder storywise and hope that it will be optional, please. For me, even to think Mazzy is a good romance match for Korgan is racist.
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Barren on April 07, 2004, 08:05:50 PM
IIRC, that was brought up very early in the development of UB and was based solely on Mazzy and Korgan getting along well (and Gaider mentionning that hed have liked her to redeem him).
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Guest on April 07, 2004, 09:28:26 PM
Hmmm... Aboyt the whole Korgan thing, I remember once taking Korgan on Jan's quest to save the Gnome girl (jaella). When it was revealed that Vaelag(?) had hurt her at some point, Korgan makes a comment about those who hurt children aren't worth the 'spittle on my boot' or somthing like that, showing that he isnt PURE evil....
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Rathwellin the Bard on April 08, 2004, 10:16:23 AM
Quote
-Sarevok's remorse for Tamoko and Yoshimo

This would be a fine addition

Quote
-Mazzy's redemption of Korgan

Not so sure about this one.  It would take some fairly impressive banter to be believable.

Quote
-The Cold Mistress in Saradush

Thumbs up!

Quote
-The return of Yoshimo (not likely...)

Iíll agree that doing this properly might be beyond the scope of UB, but of all the unfinished business mentioned so far it is one of the most interesting to me.  Iím no huge Yoshimo fan, but when combined with the Sarevok/Tamoko thing above then it could be a *really* remarkable addition.

Quote
-Saemon disguising party as monks

Sounds good.

Quote
-More obvious clue for WK

I donít really care about this one way or the other.

Quote
-Bounty hunters

Another thumbs up.

Quote
-Melissan turning your friends

Iíll have to read up more on this.  I donít recall it right of the top of my head from the other threads.

Quote
-Illasera's return

OK, this one I see as problematical.  Pre-Ascension it would have been a fine idea and even fun.  Post-Ascension I donít like it at all.  The Illasera encounter got a nice little boost in difficulty in Ascension in lieu of a return IMO.  If you add a Mage/Archer to the final Ascension battle instead of just an Archer Ö it will give just a little *too* much magic to the ďdarkĒ side in that conflict.  I have difficulty enough with that battle as is.  If you *donít* change Illasera in the Ascension battle then this component will not be very seamless.

My vote would be to skip this restoration.

Quote
-The yellow dragon and his eggs

More Dragons is good.

Quote
-Extended item descriptions

Good!

Quote
-Cespenar's Flask

Agree with Jester.  Not needed.
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Sovran on April 08, 2004, 04:20:12 PM
Some random, two-ish amount of cents:

-Sarevok's remorse for Tamoko and Yoshimo

A very welcome addition. By the way, if I may make a humble request, it'd be great if you could share some of your plans for this one, so we could take them into account in the making of the Sarevok relationship mod.

Quote
-The return of Yoshimo (not likely...)

This would be a remarkable addition - but how would it be done? It could work, and it could be sheer role playing goodness... on the other hand, if Yoshimo returned as a party member? A Personality dies a tragic death, only to make a grand comeback in the _sequel_, with pomp and circumstance. And there was much rejoicing. I think I've seen that one, somewhere.

Don't get me wrong, I like the guy, and I like the idea. It just needs (and deserves) to be done well. Not that I doubt that you'd do it well. And I'm digging the pit deeper with every word, so I'll just bite my tongue.† :P

Quote
-More obvious clue for WK

Sorely needed, yes please!

Quote
-Extended item descriptions

The more, the better.

edit:
Quote
-Melissan turning your friends

Forgot to add this one. Sounds interesting, as far as those four words go. :) Any details? Is there some place where I could read some more about it? I checked the old forums, but didn't find much. Is NI the next stop?
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Dark Raven on April 08, 2004, 06:52:00 PM
The redemption of Korgan would be good. He hits on Mazzy in SoA and in time she starts to warm up to him and he becomes much less of an evil ass.
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Cybersquirt on April 09, 2004, 01:37:07 AM
If this component is ever written & included in UB, I vote for the change to be to CN rather than CG (since the latter would be far too drastic) :).
No worse than Sarevok's..† ;)† ..but it would have to involve a lot more than Mazzy else it be entirely as lame as Sarevok.† So yeah, at the very least Sarevok should be remorsing.

Yoshimo.. maybe for the end-fight but I hate when dead guys come back; ditto that for Illasera.

Melissan turning your friends:  A few, Oh yeah..  8)  An unredeemed Sarevok for starters.
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Barren on April 09, 2004, 10:13:06 AM
No, that meant your friends would turn into Slayer Shadows when they died (instead of Melissan just summonning the Shadows).
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Cybersquirt on April 09, 2004, 10:25:28 AM
(oh ffs.. as if that battle in'nt enough of a pain in the arse)
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Jerry on April 09, 2004, 12:25:31 PM
No, that meant your friends would turn into Slayer Shadows when they died (instead of Melissan just summonning the Shadows).

Really? When I saw Melissan summoned Slayer Shadows at the begining of the third battle I thought she turning dead Baalspawn to Slayer Shadows and only dead Baalspawn could be turned.
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Barren on April 09, 2004, 02:21:17 PM
Also plausible. Was there any hint in game that she was turning Bhaalspawns?
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: SixOfSpades on April 09, 2004, 05:09:45 PM
As far as returning Yoshimo to life goes, I seem to recall that the body must be pretty much intact if the person is to survive the process. Now what was it we did with that heart again?.....

Personally, I think it would be a better idea to make a new tidbit in Ascension: If Evil gods can bring people back from the dead, so can Good ones. Amelysan conjures up Jon Irenicus--and Ilmater blocks with Yoshimo.
† † †(Ilmater is LG, so the point of whether or not this violates Ao's mandate that the other gods must keep their fingers out of the Bhaalspawn pie deserves scrutiny. It might be said that since Yoshimo's fate was bound to Jon's and the PC's anyway, Ilmater did not actually break any rules--or at least no more than Kelemvor broke by allowing the return of Jon, Bodhi, and the Five.)
† † †This Yoshimo does not join the party, and is not the Yoshimo we knew and loved: He's no longer a real Thief, he's closer to a Priest of Ilmater. He is Blind, and helps to personify the essence of suffering by being a highly resistant damage soaker, but takes no real offensive action apart from his famous Traps. All in all, this could make Yoshimo a real stumbling block for Irenicus, which would be quite in character and a nice turnabout.

This could only happen if the PC removed the Geas, of course.
And it makes Ilmater look like less of a wuss, a much-needed change. "The Crying God" isn't exactly a moniker that earns one a whole lot of street cred, after all.
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: NiGHTMARE on April 09, 2004, 05:21:17 PM
SixOfSpades: Kelemvor is only god of the dead in the Forgotten Realms and the Grey Waste, and†since Jon, Bodhi & the Five were resurrected in the Abyss, he has nothing whatsoever to do with process.† I believe the god who controls the dead in the Abyss is Orcus, who's not bound by any agreement with Ao since (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong) he's not part of any Forgotten Realms pantheons.

EDIT: Ah, apparently Orcus was killed by a fellow deity of the Abyss, the Drow goddess Kiaransalee, who assumed his portfolio.  She is worshipped in the FR, meanining unless she wants to withdraw from there, she shouldn't be able to interefere.

In fact, any deity who is completely unattached to Realmspace (the solar system, or "crystal sphere" Aber-Toril is located in) would be free to interfere with plane/world travelling Bhaalspawn as much as they like, since Ao would be able to do precisely nothing about it.† He only has power in Realmspace, and nowhere else.
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: SixOfSpades on April 11, 2004, 07:38:08 PM
....I believe the god who controls the dead in the Abyss is Orcus, who's not bound by any agreement with Ao since (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong) he's not part of any Forgotten Realms pantheons.
Personally, I find that....a little bizarre. Since Bhaal was completely under Ao's sway, where does he get off constructing his throne in a place where Ao (and, therefore, himself) would have no power?


Quote
....In fact, any deity who is completely unattached to Realmspace (the solar system, or "crystal sphere" Aber-Toril is located in) would be free to interfere with plane/world travelling Bhaalspawn as much as they like, since Ao would be able to do precisely nothing about it.  He only has power in Realmspace, and nowhere else.
Ah--you mean the "outer deities" could interfere with Realmspace creatures while they were outside Realmspace, yes?
And would priests of FR gods have power while they were outside their deities' sphere of influence?
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: NiGHTMARE on April 11, 2004, 08:15:18 PM
Quote
Personally, I find that....a little bizarre. Since Bhaal was completely under Ao's sway, where does he get off constructing his throne in a place where Ao (and, therefore, himself) would have no power?

Ao doesn't allow deities who're more powerful than demigod status to have their main place of residence in the Realms, so it has to be elsewhere :).† BTW Bioware placing Bhaal's throne in the CE Abyss is yet another large boo-boos of their's: being a LE deity, his home plane is actually Gehenna.† Deites have most power in the plane they're currently in and the Prime world(s) on which they're worshipped, but they can grant spells to priests on other planes (see below).

Unfortunately I don't think there are any official publications detailing relationships between gods of one world and other worlds, so if anyone wanted to create a mod where an FR god called upon his non-Realms allies to do him a little "favour" or whatever, they'd just have make it up :).

Quote
Ah--you mean the "outer deities" could interfere with Realmspace creatures while they were outside Realmspace, yes?

Yep, if a deity has no connection to the Realms, Ao would be powerless to launch a reprisal against them if they decided to (say)† kill the PC while here were in the Abyss.† So f.ex the Greyhawk deity Hextor or the Dragonlance god Nuitari could happily slay our hero, were they so inclined.

Quote
And would priests of FR gods have power while they were outside their deities' sphere of influence?

Deities can't grant spells on worlds in the Prime Material plane that they're not worshipped on, unless they have specific permission of the "local" gods.† Many gods are worshipped on multiple worlds though, e.g. the Elven god Fenmarel Mestarine and the Halfling deity Urogalan are both worshipped on Oerth (Greyhawk) as well as in the Realms.† I believe the Drow goddess Lolth is supposed to be worshipped on hundreds of worlds.

When it comes to planes, this is just off the top off my head, but IIRC the further from the alignment of your deity's home plane you are, the less power they can grant you.† So if a priest of the LG deity Ilmater were in the CE Abyss, that'd be Good->Neutral->Evil, plus Lawful->Neutral->Chaotic.  Meaning the priest would be four planes removed from their god, and thus their spell casting would be limited to level 3 or lower... unless their deity decides to come along to that plane (which is very unlikely to happen in this case).† This is just from memory though, and I seem to remember it being a bit more complicated than that.† I'm sure someone else will come along who knows more than me regarding the subject :).
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: discharger12 on April 11, 2004, 09:20:45 PM
Where do u guys get this stuff from? I want to read about it, but I don't know where to look...
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: AkashaCatBat on April 14, 2004, 10:09:13 PM
Where do u guys get this stuff from? I want to read about it, but I don't know where to look...

D&D Manuals, I would assume. :)
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Barren on April 16, 2004, 09:15:28 PM
And FR novels.
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: fallen demon on May 16, 2004, 11:49:14 PM
druid grove in tethyr.  I dont have any proof of this in terms of rescued files, but both Jahiera and Cernd came from druid groves in the area (safe to assume the same one) and in an early soa lovetalk Jahiera expresses intrest in returning to tethyr.  So it seems like there should have been a sidequest or at least some dialouge related to the subject.
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: rreinier on May 17, 2004, 01:37:05 AM
But we don't see all of Tethyr, do we? The grove in question could be much further south...
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: NiGHTMARE on May 17, 2004, 09:27:14 AM
I don't recall Cernd ever mentioning where his grove is.† He does, however, mention in his joining dialog that he has been sent from the north - and Tethyr is to the south.
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: fallen demon on May 28, 2004, 09:56:52 AM
So either the instruction manuals wrong or he went the long way from tethyr to amn.
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: MagusWizardo on May 29, 2004, 01:08:38 AM
So either the instruction manuals wrong or he went the long way from tethyr to amn.
The former is not unusual. ;)
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: sotona on May 29, 2004, 05:01:17 AM
No, that meant your friends would turn into Slayer Shadows when they died (instead of Melissan just summonning the Shadows).
I really think you people should concentrate on useful restorations. It's a shame to waste so much time on making final TOB fight more and more and more challenging.  :-\
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: icelus on May 29, 2004, 09:21:52 AM
No, that meant your friends would turn into Slayer Shadows when they died (instead of Melissan just summonning the Shadows).
I really think you people should concentrate on useful restorations. It's a shame to waste so much time on making final TOB fight more and more and more challenging.  :-\

I'm afraid I'd have to agree with you on this one.  :)
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: TheHound on June 05, 2004, 10:54:43 AM
adding to the list at the start of the post originally if u carried sarevoks sword through to tob it got an upgrade so he could use it but that was cut. the original upgraded sword is still in the game
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Idobek on June 05, 2004, 11:03:51 AM
Quote from: TheHound
adding to the list at the start of the post originally if u carried sarevoks sword through to tob it got an upgrade so he could use it but that was cut. the original upgraded sword is still in the game
The upgrade is included in Ascension.
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: fallen demon on June 06, 2004, 11:14:04 PM
So either the instruction manuals wrong or he went the long way from tethyr to amn.
The former is not unusual. ;)
True, but the latters been known to happen, I don't know of any compasses or know direction spells so he could get lost.
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Barren on June 07, 2004, 10:43:41 PM
There are lines in TOB coded for a CG Korgan.



Would you happen to have some examples of that?
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Kish on June 07, 2004, 10:48:45 PM
His "Leaving/Rejoining Party" lines.  If he's CE, they reflect his bloodthirsty viciousness--if he's CG, they're a lot calmer and friendlier.
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Idobek on June 08, 2004, 05:34:49 AM
Would Sarevok's invalid script assignment count as UB? It is on Kevin Dorner's "bugs fixed" list, but who knows if he is ever coming back?
Quote
  • Five entries in Sarevok's soundset were supposed to change if his alignment did, but failed to due to an invalid script reference

I have included the fix in the NPC Kit Pack, I don't recall if any other mods include a fix. Here is the tp2 code:
Code: [Select]
COPY_EXISTING ~sarevok.cre~ ~override/sarevok.cre~
  WRITE_ASCII 0x248 ~SAREVOK~
  WRITE_BYTE 0x24f 0x00
  WRITE_LONG 0x260 0x00000000
  WRITE_LONG 0x264 0x00000000
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: icelus on June 08, 2004, 07:03:04 AM
Ah, very nice, Idobek.† You don't mind if I add that to UB?† I'm assuming this isn't something fixed by Ascension, either, correct?


EDIT: Why can I never spell Ascension correctly the first time??
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Idobek on June 08, 2004, 07:27:02 AM
Bugger, yes, it is fixed by Ascension but in a different way. I'll sort out the best way to do this fix and send it to you.
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Da_venom on June 15, 2004, 09:27:59 AM
now that;s nice new thingie's :D

more dragons is a real good thing i love :D

mazzy&korgan yea right dream on...i mean korgan is crazy ^^

about yoshimo returning might be possible..by all means what else is resurrection for? :D

but there needs to be much more for yoshimo then. and if yoshimo then suna must also come back right? i mean she was under the same gas as yoshi

just get them in bg/tob makes it alot more intresting :D

maybe yoshi and suna come back when you fighting mellisan :D

Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Barren on June 15, 2004, 05:50:39 PM
Do remember that someone who dies to a Geas can,t be raised or resurrected. It would take a Wish to do that (and wishes should age the caster anyway, so it's not like people cast them everyday)
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Aristothenes on June 18, 2004, 07:22:15 AM
Isn't the map of Athkatla, and Saradush totally wrong, versus the P&P representation?
There are at least 3 or more bars missing.
But here I go again making work where none should care...
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: discharger12 on June 18, 2004, 11:05:41 AM
Isn't the map of Athkatla, and Saradush totally wrong, versus the P&P representation?
There are at least 3 or more bars missing.
But here I go again making work where none should care...

Well, Bioware wasn't really worried on making alot of the game P&P similar, as you can see in alot of the game.
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Angryj on July 16, 2004, 06:38:35 PM
Whatever you include in the ToB portion of UB will be much appreciated not to mention downloaded post haste :)† Be assured that most of the folks who play this mod and others are forever indebted to all involved.† If you make a mod they will download it 8)† I personally thank everyone involved in the creation of UB :D
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Reverendratbastard on October 20, 2004, 09:17:51 AM

 as the readme indicates that this serious ToB stuff is still in the future, i'll go ahead and sling in my tuppence...

Quote
-Sarevok's remorse for Tamoko
  yesyesyesyesyes.
Quote
and Yoshimo
? i definitely missed something here.  what - you tell him the story of the geas &c and he dwells on it and - knowing the feeling of a bound or irretrievable soul, i suppose...

Quote
-Mazzy's redemption of Korgan
meh, kind of inclined to dislike that idea, but...  dialogue can surprise me, y'know?  as long as it's cheeseless... seems to me like it'd have to be pretty clever to tweak/sidestep korgan's temper; it'd have to be really deed-centered, not ever hinging on debate (i mean, he's not exactly wired to be contemplative, if you disagree with him that's just another excuse to snap)

Quote
-The Cold Mistress in Saradush
abso-flippin'-lutely.  saradush has way too little going on.

Quote
-The return of Yoshimo (not likely...)
i understand...  although to be able to choose this event over a new Power, perhaps...
 my first time in the pp, i felt a surge of hope when i saw him on The List...  even after the let-down, there was a residual thought of 'well, would they really have bothered to put him on the list if there was NO WAY you could get him back?'  and of course the answer is yes, but...

Quote
-Saemon disguising party as monks
cunning!  i like.  although - for what purpose exactly?  another alternative to entering the monastery to confront balthazar?  or [infinitely preferable] an earlier infiltration / reconaissance scheme?

Quote
-More obvious clue for WK
hear, hear!  yet something tells me i have recently heard/seen something to this effect somewhere...

Quote
-Bounty hunters
better believe it!

Quote
-Melissan turning your friends
yeah, you know, i'm throwing in with sotona and icelus on this one.  enough with the melissan fight already.

Quote
-Illasera's return
dig the simulacrum story; like jester i'd be happy to see her again  :pirate

Quote
-The yellow dragon and his eggs
i'm always up for more dragon action.  especially if there's some PLOT along with it (and substantially different from adalon's deal, i trust)

Quote
-Extended item descriptions
hey, you DID do this!  ;D  and damn fine work it is, too.

Quote
-Cespenar's Flask
i'm all for adding quests based on cespenar, but not more items, please.  unless it righteously involves an expenditure in the six-figure range.
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Barren on October 20, 2004, 05:47:07 PM

Quote
Quote
and Yoshimo
? i definitely missed something here.  what - you tell him the story of the geas &c and he dwells on it and - knowing the feeling of a bound or irretrievable soul, i suppose...

He came to Amn looking for his sister Tamoko.

Quote
Quote
-Saemon disguising party as monks
cunning!  i like.  although - for what purpose exactly?  another alternative to entering the monastery to confront balthazar?  or [infinitely preferable] an earlier infiltration / reconaissance scheme?

I agree, but the former was what the devs had planned.

Quote
-Cespenar's Flask
i'm all for adding quests based on cespenar, but not more items, please.† unless it righteously involves an expenditure in the six-figure range.

I'm also against adding more items, but the flask is not something he creates, it's his home.
Title: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Painbearer on February 02, 2005, 05:20:20 PM
If it isn't too impudently, may I ask if a Throne of Bhaal addition is in the works at the moment? I'm a newbie and I was very happy with you guys did in SoA UB... I'd be glad to see something from the list from the topic bellow - Manzzy and Korgan, Yoshimo's return, Illasera or Sarevok and Tamoko.

Thanks for the answers.

Best regards :)
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Galactygon on February 02, 2005, 06:23:47 PM
If I remember correctly, there was this ToB cut business in a nice list in the previous forums. Although I cannot speak for them, I believe they were going to finish up all SoA unfinished business, then move on to ToB.

-Galactygon
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Barren on February 02, 2005, 08:59:24 PM
Seeing from what Painbearer is asking for, I think he's read this article  ;)
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Andyr on February 03, 2005, 10:11:21 AM
I am currently not working on any ToB-related stuff. I don't know about others, though.

Sovran and Winterine are writing stuff for Sarevok-Tamoko. :)
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Andyr on September 03, 2005, 11:27:40 AM
I pruned the thread and moved the recent dogs/species stuff into EFCB. Here it is: http://forums.pocketplane.net/index.php/topic,20269.0.html :)
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Andyr on September 04, 2005, 12:57:45 PM
Moved the stuff about bringing BG1 NPCs back here http://forums.pocketplane.net/index.php?topic=20280.0 as it's out of the scope of the thread and the mod. :)

About Anarg's sources within the Radiant Heart, it might be something you wish to ask Sim about for Quest Pack. There was no hint the developers meant anything more to be done, so it's out of the scope of this mod.
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Eden on February 08, 2006, 09:14:10 PM
So nobody is work on this part of UB atm ?
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Da_venom on February 09, 2006, 06:10:35 AM
not in UB maybe quest pack like andyr said

I stil wonder the dragons you kill in TOB can't you get a dragon armor out of that?
or in the daemongorgon dungeon?


Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Andyr on February 09, 2006, 12:11:02 PM
So nobody is work on this part of UB atm ?

Not in particular. I need to go through and prune this thread, though, since there's a lot of clutter.
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: SixOfSpades on February 09, 2006, 01:23:53 PM
I stil wonder the dragons you kill in TOB can't you get a dragon armor out of that?
or in the daemongorgon dungeon?
Just FYI, I'm planning a (item upgrade) mod where ALL Dragons drop their scales. 3 sets of them, too.
Neck scales = Mage Robes
Belly / Leg scales = Hide Armor / Chainmail
Back scales = Plate Armor
The heavier armors will all be wearable by trueclass Druids. Don't expect to see this mod any time soon, though.
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: rreinier on February 27, 2006, 04:35:58 PM
Will that include Tamah (Improved Abazigal's missus)?
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: epeter on May 05, 2006, 06:17:17 AM
On the Korgan issue, I would actually like to see it, although it is certainly hard to do in a believable way. But as said above he has some redeeming qualities, so I wouldn't dismiss him as a lost cause. I would also say if he changes it should be to CG not CN. Korgan does not strike me as a person who could be Neutral anything. I think he would either go all the way or not at all. As long as he stays chaotic, I am happy anyway.
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: dunk on June 11, 2006, 02:49:35 PM
He came to Amn looking for his sister Tamoko.

Where does this come from?   ???
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Andyr on June 12, 2006, 12:52:58 PM
David Gaider, one of the designers.
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: berelinde on June 26, 2006, 07:28:45 PM
If it were well written, Mazzy's redemption of Korgan could be believable.

And no, I don't think CE to CG would be too big a leap. It's no bigger than LN to CN, and Anomen manages that.
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Drew on June 26, 2006, 07:55:52 PM
Aside from the fact that I have absolutely no desire to see yet_another_redemption.......I don't really think the idea of a Korgan redemption would really fall under the remit of UB.
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Andyr on June 27, 2006, 12:21:45 PM
Which is something I've said many times, too. :) I personally have no intention of writing or coding such an addition.
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Painbearer on September 02, 2006, 04:27:47 PM
Do you plan to combine the possible UB of ToB and the one of SoA in the future in a full mod? And can you say if there's stuff, which you developped in SoA that you can develop fully with ToB including?

Regards.
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Andyr on September 02, 2006, 04:35:35 PM
There is content in the current Unfinished Business for the ToB portion of the game. And any more ToB content, although there is none currently in development, will also stay in this mod.
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Painbearer on September 03, 2006, 03:10:42 AM
How many more contents are still unfinished business, as of now? Do you see a Final version of this mod in term of completion of the contents, not from side of bugfixes, languages and general polishing? I get tempted from time to time to put back the old game and start a new, but in a every month or two you put something new an discourage me ;).

Regards: Painbearer
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Andyr on September 03, 2006, 04:48:34 AM
Well, there's probably still some stuff listed in this thread although there's nothing currently in development. There may or may not be a "final" version--the various contributors to this mod all have a lot of other stuff, modding and otherwise, going on.
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Elfen Lied on February 14, 2007, 02:16:09 PM
Quote
-Sarevok's remorse for Tamoko and Yoshimo
-Mazzy's redemption of Korgan
-The Cold Mistress in Saradush
-The return of Yoshimo (not likely...)
-Saemon disguising party as monks
-More obvious clue for WK
-Bounty hunters
-Melissan turning your friends
-Illasera's return
-The yellow dragon and his eggs
-Extended item descriptions
-Cespenar's Flask

all sounds good. the more stuff there is to do the better
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Da_venom on March 05, 2007, 07:24:43 AM
it's not about more. It's more about quality ;-)

but why bounty hunters in tob?

Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Elfen Lied on March 14, 2007, 03:02:00 PM
Quote
it's not about more. It's more about quality ;-)

naturally, but what if both quantity and quality are one in the same? though often they arent, but it would be great if they were. lots of new quality stuff to do.
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Da_venom on March 16, 2007, 03:19:57 PM
ofcourse it would be great
but then again
you have to think of UB it's made to put missing stuff into the game
not to create new stuff for the game
;-)

Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Patrick Kaman on January 31, 2009, 08:29:16 AM
Update ?
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Nijel on May 23, 2009, 10:30:44 AM

-Mazzy's redemption of Korgan


That would be great. Having played with them in my party, I might say I like the idea and I can totally see that happen (if you never played with them, just read the dialogue where Korgan speaks of his past to Mazzy and you can see why he isn't core-evil). But I'm not sure of the timing in TOB (not much timespan), I mean it would be better if the redemption began in SoA, since things end rather abruptly there (Korgan says to Mazzy he will try for her sake to be less of an ass). In fact, this might be a great standalone mod, and I would love to work on it, but I'm a beginner modder so...
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: SixOfSpades on May 29, 2009, 03:40:39 AM
-Mazzy's redemption of Korgan
That would be great. Having played with them in my party, I might say I like the idea and I can totally see that happen.
Having played with both of them in my party, I can totally see why that would suck big-time. There are two reasons why Person A might influence a fundamental change in Person B's overall behavior/personality:
1) Person A has a good deal more strength of character than Person B, and Person B wants to be better liked/tolerated by Person A.
2) Person A has a good deal more strength of character than Person B, and Person B wants to be more like Person A.
Obviously, #1 is more likely, as Korgan wants into Mazzy's steel-plated pantaloons. But are you actually suggesting that Korgan is a man of weak moral fiber, easily influenced by a single person of an alignment diametrically opposed to his own? On the contrary, Korgan is about as confident and self-reliant as they come, and while he might not mind a romp on the right side of the blanket for a change, that's almost certainly all it would be, and he damn well knows it.

Besides, this game is notoriously stingy towards Evil parties, with the entire saga leaning so hard towards Good that it's not even funny. Sarevok? Both calculating and barbaric in his cruelty, and you can redeem him. Viconia? Unabashedly selfish and endlessly manipulative, and you can redeem her. Edwin? He's not really even Evil in the first place, he's just power-mad. That leaves only Korgan, and you want to redeem him too? Screw that. The game needs a Corrupt Aerie mod (and possibly Anomen as well) a lot more than a Redeem Korgan mod, whether that was part of BioWare's original intentions or not.
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: ddv on May 29, 2009, 12:05:59 PM
Corrupting Aerie? Now you're talking.
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Nijel on May 29, 2009, 12:21:24 PM

Having played with both of them in my party, I can totally see why that would suck big-time. There are two reasons why Person A might influence a fundamental change in Person B's overall behavior/personality:
1) Person A has a good deal more strength of character than Person B, and Person B wants to be better liked/tolerated by Person A.
2) Person A has a good deal more strength of character than Person B, and Person B wants to be more like Person A.
Obviously, #1 is more likely, as Korgan wants into Mazzy's steel-plated pantaloons. But are you actually suggesting that Korgan is a man of weak moral fiber, easily influenced by a single person of an alignment diametrically opposed to his own? On the contrary, Korgan is about as confident and self-reliant as they come, and while he might not mind a romp on the right side of the blanket for a change, that's almost certainly all it would be, and he damn well knows it.

If you recall last banter in BG2 SOA, Korgan already says that he will try to be a better man dwarf for Mazzy's sake, and it's not an act (we're not talking Viconia here). So, it seems Bioware has already stated it's reason 2.
And I'm not saying that Korgan should switch from CE (though his actions are those of a NE) to CG.
As for Sarevok and Viconia, those are Bioware content choices you can make (and Viconia redeem comes after a long long way and has a sad end, so you really don't have anything to complain about here). Here, we're talking about mod content. It's up to you to install it or not (as well as redeeming Sarevok or not by the way). If you choose to have Viconia, Sarevok, Korgan and Mazzy and redeem all the three evil bastards in your party, that would totally be your choice.

As for NPC corruptions, Nalia comes to my mind (she just lost everything at the end of her quest, it can gets worse with her abduction and the uncooperating authority), as well as Imoen (she got tortured twice, seems a good reason to change to me) and more Anomen content (he got his Chaotic Neutral corruption already after all) but Aerie ? Why would she be corrupted.

And I'm not against more "evil" content, on the contrary. But since the matter at hand is the Korgan/Mazzy Unfinished Business, I stated my mind on the topic.
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Da_venom on May 30, 2009, 04:33:11 PM
since aerie got tired of being weak and let het self be corrupted(due to evil humans cutting of her wings)
xD
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: SixOfSpades on May 31, 2009, 10:04:01 AM
If you recall last banter in BG2 SOA, Korgan already says that he will try to be a better man dwarf for Mazzy's sake
By "better," he's probably talking about good vs. bad, not the larger picture of Good vs. Evil. At most, I can see Korgan willing to abide by higher standards of grooming and manners (and grudgingly tone down his bloodthirstiness a notch) in order to sway Mazzy over--but offering to throw over his entire worldview is something else entirely. If you're talking about "redeeming" him from CE to NE, I wouldn't really mind that, but if the change bumps him up to Good or Neutral, that just perpetuates the idea that evil doesn't actually exist, and that CHARNAME missed his true calling of psychotherapy.

As for Aerie, she's easily pliable (a hell of a lot easier than Viconia, Sarevok, Korgan, or possibly even Anomen during his moment of crisis) because she's immature, physically and psychologically scarred, emotionally rather shallow, separated from everyone she's ever looked on as a mentor, thrust into a world where she's constantly being attacked (sometimes by members of her own party), and in general almost completely out of her depth. If there was ever somebody you could knock over with a feather, Aerie is it.
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Da_venom on May 31, 2009, 11:15:55 AM
very vague to say the least :D
but bhaal wanted to come to earth realm right?
and by doing that he would need a child(to poses that one)
or something
so bhaal would be able to live on earth again
with his godly powers
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: berelinde on June 01, 2009, 11:33:58 AM
I'm illogically attracted to NPCs that can change over the course of the game, so both a redeemable Korgan and a corruptible Aerie hold tremendous appeal for me.

I'm already convinced that Aerie is already plenty manipulative. She goes on and on about her wings, but if she was really as traumatized as all that, she'd never have survived it. No, she just wants the attention, and is milking the PC's sympathy gland.

And I just love the idea of Mazzy being able to redeem Korgan. In my world, it wouldn't be the PC helping Korgan get over his past, it would be Mazzy. So no more PC as therapist.
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Da_venom on June 01, 2009, 11:58:43 AM
true indeed:)

so annoying the pc has got to do all works:P
^^
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: jcompton on June 01, 2009, 01:50:44 PM
I'm already convinced that Aerie is already plenty manipulative. She goes on and on about her wings, but if she was really as traumatized as all that, she'd never have survived it. No, she just wants the attention, and is milking the PC's sympathy gland.

"Evil Aerie" strikes again!
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Painbearer on April 09, 2010, 08:30:49 PM
Any update?
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: picollo on April 19, 2010, 04:25:59 AM
I'm very interested in ideas that were discussed abuot missing ToB content. Anyone has archives mentioned in first post(with discussions from older forum)? Or maybe anyone remember those discusions, and could describe some details about list in first post?
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Chao stik on April 14, 2011, 04:57:29 PM
Quote
Sarevok's remorse for Tamoko and Yoshimo

As I recall in you could talk Tamoko out of fighting you, I was wondering if that would come into play here
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Bex on April 15, 2011, 01:08:54 AM
Canonically, Tamoko ends up dead, whether you fought her or not. I suspect that any reference to it would be one of those things where whatever the PC might be able to say on the subject becomes your truth (unless you're allowed to lie, if it would make a difference... which could also be neat).
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Loremaster -Guest on November 02, 2014, 10:27:08 AM
Any progress?
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Kulyok on November 03, 2014, 05:11:01 AM
Everything that's been done is inside the mod right now. I haven't heard of anyone working on more, except for Almateria in her SHS mod, but I know very little.
If you(anyone) is interested about anything that's not been included yet, you can also develop it yourself and either release it as a standalone mod, or include into UB.
Title: Re: Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business
Post by: Almateria on November 03, 2014, 05:39:50 AM
Well, let's go one by one.
Quote
-Sarevok's remorse for Tamoko and Yoshimo
-Mazzy's redemption of Korgan
-The Cold Mistress in Saradush
-The return of Yoshimo (not likely...)
-Saemon disguising party as monks
-More obvious clue for WK
-Bounty hunters
-Melissan turning your friends
-Illasera's return
-The yellow dragon and his eggs
-Extended item descriptions
-Cespenar's Flask
I marked what UB as slashed, ARP as bolded and what's already been done in other mods in italics, namely Korgan's Redemption and Ascension, I think.
Now, what's left is the return of Yoshimo, which is completely baseless conjecture, there's not a shred of evidence of it ever being planned.
Cespenar's flask doesn't make sense, since we can move to the Pocket Plane whenever.
The yellow dragon has also no evidence of what was supposed to happen or even at least where it was supposed to happen.

So hey, thread solved!