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BG2 Completed Mods => Event Modding: Iron Modder and One-Day NPC => Topic started by: jcompton on September 20, 2004, 01:10:18 PM

Title: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: jcompton on September 20, 2004, 01:10:18 PM
The next Iron Modder will be held SUNDAY DECEMBER 5, 2004 commencing at 12 noon Central US time (6 PM UK, 7 PM Europe, 10 AM Pacific US, 1 PM Eastern US.) Mark your calendars.

For those of you new to the Iron Modder concept, here's how it works:

The TV show Iron Chef depicts world-class chefs in an hour-long battle of wits and will at Kitchen Stadium. At the top of the hour, an insane overlord announces a secret theme ingredient, around which the Iron Chefs must design and prepare a multi-course meal.

Things are very similar in Infinity Stadium.

- I am the insane overlord.

- At an appointed time, I announce a secret theme for a mod. (Past Iron Modder themes: "The Price Of Friendship", "A Broken Promise," "A Kiss Before Dying", "Some of My Best Friends Are Slimes" and "The Last Mug of Ale In Amn.")

- Iron Modders have four hours to design, prepare, and submit a functioning mod that exhibits the theme.

- Iron Mods are judged by an arbitrarily assembled panel on a 25 point scale:

EXposition of the Theme (1-10)
Originality (1-5)
Innovation (1-5)
ENtertainment (1-5)

- Entries are only credited to one author, although it is permitted to work with anonymous sous-chefs.

- Entries may contain prefabricated content, for instance pieces of another mod the modder is working on, or the use of community AI scripting, if that content is disclosed to the judges. It has been my observation that the use of prefab content has very little positive impact on scoring, however.

- It is HIGHLY RECOMMENDED that Iron Modders allocate a block of time for testing before the 4-hour period expires. Iron Modders are also encouraged to use an external tester if possible.

- The winner earns the right to be known as IRON MODDER!

Sconrad took the Iron Modder crown in Iron Modder 5. Do you have what it takes to dethrone him?

ALLEZ MODDING!
Title: Re: IRON MODDER 6: DECEMBER 5
Post by: jcompton on September 20, 2004, 08:40:53 PM
Also, some reflections on the impact of Iron Modder. After five contests...

37 mods have been created on the Iron Modder themes.
31 mods are distributed in the Iron Modder download packs.
18 different modders have created Iron Mods.
Title: Re: IRON MODDER 6: DECEMBER 5
Post by: Quitch on November 10, 2004, 04:42:52 AM
I wish I'd been there for the "A Kiss Before Dying" theme, now that had some real potential.
Title: Re: IRON MODDER 6: DECEMBER 5
Post by: Quitch on November 14, 2004, 05:31:11 AM
Is it just me, or did everyone else think of depressing ideas before anything else when they read the first three themes?
Title: Re: IRON MODDER 6: DECEMBER 5
Post by: jcompton on November 14, 2004, 12:14:44 PM
Well, I suppose one could feel melancholy (or apocalyptic) about the concept of the last mug of ale in Amn...
Title: Re: IRON MODDER 6: DECEMBER 5
Post by: neriana on November 14, 2004, 06:09:11 PM
Well, I guess it would be depressing if your best friends were slimes, if you didn't like slimes, but then if they're someone's best friends, s/he must like them, so that wouldn't be depressing.  :)

If you mean "first three" as in "first three Jason listed", and not "first three chronologically", then yes, they do look somewhat sad. One of my "entries" for one of them was pretty sad (or supposed to be), one contained a sad bit, and the third wasn't precisely cheerful.
Title: Re: IRON MODDER 6: DECEMBER 5
Post by: jcompton on November 14, 2004, 07:42:40 PM
Oh, yes, in reverse order, the more recent topics have indeed been more melancholy/depressing/downbeat. The first two were more lighthearted (or at least, were intended to be) but I decided to bring it down a notch.
Title: Re: IRON MODDER 6: DECEMBER 5
Post by: Quitch on November 15, 2004, 07:42:06 AM
Oh, yes, in reverse order, the more recent topics have indeed been more melancholy/depressing/downbeat. The first two were more lighthearted (or at least, were intended to be) but I decided to bring it down a notch.

Emotional themes are more likely to inspire something notable and worthwhile IMO, a good change of direction.
Title: Re: IRON MODDER 6: DECEMBER 5
Post by: Userunfriendly on November 24, 2004, 04:56:27 AM
and as before, i am going to try to write a song to honor the winner.. :-*

so its not just bragging rights, but you will be immortalized in song.. :pirate :pirate :pirate
Title: Re: IRON MODDER 6: DECEMBER 5
Post by: NiGHTMARE on November 24, 2004, 07:30:32 AM
I agree that emotional themes are good, especially negative emotions.  Perhaps the next theme could explore another emotion beside sadness; something along the lines of "You Wouln't Like Me When I'm Angry!" could be interesting.
Title: Re: IRON MODDER 6: DECEMBER 5
Post by: Quitch on November 24, 2004, 08:37:02 AM
Bah!  Now you've gone an ensured that jc doesn't choose that, and that would make for one hell of a theme involving the PCs blood... or maybe Imoen's for more of a surprise :)
Title: Re: IRON MODDER 6: DECEMBER 5
Post by: jester on November 24, 2004, 09:07:00 AM
Well, you can never be sure.'Stranger things have happened in this wide, wicked world.' :D
Title: Re: IRON MODDER 6: DECEMBER 5
Post by: jcompton on November 28, 2004, 11:39:57 PM
To avoid the possibility of a tie occurring again, as it did in Iron Modder 3, a tiebreaking system will be used based on component scores.

In order, any tie will be broken by:

Exposition
Entertainment
Originality
Innovation
Title: Re: IRON MODDER 6: DECEMBER 5
Post by: Ghreyfain on November 28, 2004, 11:52:51 PM
What if the tied people have scores that are exactly the same?
Title: Re: IRON MODDER 6: DECEMBER 5
Post by: jcompton on November 28, 2004, 11:54:03 PM
Then I would crabbily declare another tie, but the odds of four judges coming up with four component scores for two or more people that averaged out to ALL be the same are really, really low.
Title: Re: IRON MODDER 6: DECEMBER 5
Post by: Ghreyfain on November 28, 2004, 11:59:25 PM
Hehe, gotcha.
Title: Re: IRON MODDER 6: DECEMBER 5
Post by: Userunfriendly on November 29, 2004, 03:44:01 PM
Then I would crabbily declare another tie, but the odds of four judges coming up with four component scores for two or more people that averaged out to ALL be the same are really, really low.

so was any ties...

so you going to have a iron modder cookoff?

2 hours for the finalists to make a mod? new theme... ::)
Title: Re: IRON MODDER 6: DECEMBER 5
Post by: jcompton on November 29, 2004, 03:53:58 PM
That's a thought... but what if neither of the overtime mods worked? That's slightly more likely than an across-the-board tie score. :)
Title: Re: IRON MODDER 6: DECEMBER 5
Post by: Kismet on November 29, 2004, 04:00:46 PM
Then I would crabbily declare another tie, but the odds of four judges coming up with four component scores for two or more people that averaged out to ALL be the same are really, really low.

so was any ties...

so you going to have a iron modder cookoff?

2 hours for the finalists to make a mod? new theme... ::)

It's generally pretty late by the time all the judging is in.  Depending on what time zone the contestants/judges are in, it's very possible that they went off to bed or work.
Title: Re: IRON MODDER 6: DECEMBER 5
Post by: jcompton on November 29, 2004, 04:15:37 PM
Also true.
Title: Re: IRON MODDER 6: DECEMBER 5
Post by: nethrin on November 29, 2004, 05:24:40 PM
I'd really like to participate in IM6, but it starts at 3 AM Monday morning for me.........hmmmmm, what to do.........
Title: Re: IRON MODDER 6: DECEMBER 5
Post by: jcompton on November 29, 2004, 06:02:18 PM
Yeah, I know the timing is unfortunate for Asia/Pac. If you and Cliffette signed a petition and promised to participate, I can try to time-shift one of them in the future. :)
Title: Re: IRON MODDER 6: DECEMBER 5
Post by: cliffette on November 29, 2004, 11:24:07 PM
Heh. The only reason I haven't started a petition yet is that you have a knack for choosing the exact dates at which I am most busy to hold your Iron Mod championships. :)
Title: Re: IRON MODDER 6: DECEMBER 5
Post by: nethrin on November 30, 2004, 06:15:19 AM
Yeah, I know the timing is unfortunate for Asia/Pac. If you and Cliffette signed a petition and promised to participate, I can try to time-shift one of them in the future.

that's considerate of you, but I don't want to inconvenience everyone just because of my schedule.  and, hey, monday is my regularly-scheduled, required day-off from work, so it's all good.  I guess I just like to complain for no reason........ ;D
Title: Re: IRON MODDER 6: DECEMBER 5
Post by: Userunfriendly on December 05, 2004, 03:55:37 PM
five minutes...
Title: Re: IRON MODDER 6: DECEMBER 5
Post by: nethrin on December 05, 2004, 06:11:10 PM
omg, oh crap!!!!  i totally FORGOT about IM6.  afte rmy gaming session, I went to bed and forgot to get up at 3 AM to do the mod.......argh!!!
Title: Re: IRON MODDER 6: DECEMBER 5
Post by: jcompton on December 05, 2004, 06:56:26 PM
You can always clock yourself and turn something in after the deadline. That usually happens each time we hold one. Weimer says he's going to do one that way tomorrow.
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: icelus on December 05, 2004, 10:00:58 PM
Congratulations, Domi.  :)
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: neriana on December 05, 2004, 10:34:06 PM
Congrats, Domi.

Icelus, are you the Iron Santa?
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: SConrad on December 05, 2004, 10:39:57 PM
Yes, congratulations, domi. :)

I just want to annote something here:

Despite what other people around seem to think, my entry was not a scorn against the competition, the other participants, the judges or the hosting forum. I submitted Hubelpot because of the great irony in having him symbolize "A Hero For All the Wrong Reasons", as he is just that. To fully understand the humour-value of it, you must play the full mod, which isn't possible in just 30 minutes. The mod was not submitted to aggrivate or make anyone feel bad of it.
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: Bons on December 05, 2004, 10:43:02 PM
Congratulations, Domi! I had a huge amount of fun playing your entry!
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: Pirengle on December 05, 2004, 10:47:36 PM
Congrats to domi. ^_^

And a question: Bons as failed entrant AND judge? Something's not very kosher about this situation... But then again, if this ain't precedent, who am I to squawk?
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: Ghreyfain on December 05, 2004, 10:47:45 PM
Yeah, congratulations. :)  Now all you need is a hat, and an Iron X title.  Hmmm...
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: Ghreyfain on December 05, 2004, 10:48:49 PM
Why is it not kosher?  She didn't get her mod in in time, so it wasn't going to be judged.  If things weren't kosher, the five (or ten, or fifteen, or whatever it was) minute overtime would've been overlooked.
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: neriana on December 05, 2004, 10:50:56 PM
Yeah, congratulations. :)  Now all you need is a hat, and an Iron X title.  Hmmm...

Iron Gibberling?
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: St. Josephine on December 05, 2004, 10:51:37 PM
Congrats Domi... you did good, very good.  ;D

Is my mind in the gutter or does "Iron Domi" sound somewhat, er, naughty... in a stern sort of way, of course.  ;)
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: Ghreyfain on December 05, 2004, 10:57:43 PM
Is my mind in the gutter or does "Iron Domi" sound somewhat, er, naughty... in a stern sort of way, of course. ;)

Iron Dominique?  I don't get it.  (Heheheh.)

Edit: Okay, so only now do I find out that Domi isn't short for anything.  I am going to use my "I woke up at 4 a.m." get-out-of-jail-free card on this one.
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: jcompton on December 05, 2004, 11:08:27 PM
Why is it not kosher?  She didn't get her mod in in time, so it wasn't going to be judged.  If things weren't kosher, the five (or ten, or fifteen, or whatever it was) minute overtime would've been overlooked.

It's happened roughly half of the time, I think, that one of the original planned judges can't participate and I've needed to draw from the modding pool (those who don't actually have a valid mod being judged, that is) in order to flesh out the panel. It's my preference to use judges who wouldn't/shouldn't otherwise be modding, but sometimes it doesn't work out that way. When an opening came up, I asked both Bons and Seifer (who had both judged before and I knew were reliable) if they would sub.

Bons answered first.

And, yes, her mod wasn't being judged. That made her just like anybody else off the street.
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: Ghreyfain on December 05, 2004, 11:11:33 PM
I wonder who would be more impartial, Spiderman or Batman?
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: Bons on December 05, 2004, 11:13:12 PM
And a question: Bons as failed entrant AND judge? Something's not very kosher about this situation... But then again, if this ain't precedent, who am I to squawk?

Actually, there is precedent. The last time I filled in as a judge was IM2, and I failed to get my entry working in time to be judged then, too. The only difference is, this go round, the debug was idiotically simple enough that I got it working a few minutes after the deadline disqualified me, rather than hours.
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: St. Josephine on December 05, 2004, 11:15:02 PM
I wonder who would be more impartial, Spiderman or Batman?

You should make that into a poll so we can send an invite for one of them to judge IM7 (schedules permitting). 
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: Bons on December 05, 2004, 11:29:48 PM
If we have a poll of superheroes, include Aquaman, please.  :D
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: cliffette on December 05, 2004, 11:35:17 PM
The real question is: If the Hulk fought Spiderman, who would win?


I'm expecting approximately 2 people on this forum to recognise that one. :)
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: jcompton on December 05, 2004, 11:44:19 PM
The real question is, "would anyone here like to discuss Iron Modder 6?"
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: Bons on December 05, 2004, 11:53:08 PM
Is that a trick question?
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: Ghreyfain on December 06, 2004, 12:00:50 AM
Right, right, IM6, yes.  So in the past there've been entries here and there that Sim decided to schlurp into Quest Pack (with permission, naturally).  Any of 'em this time seem suitable?
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: jcompton on December 06, 2004, 12:08:24 AM
I have designs on the Ghreybanter for Banter Pack. But only AFTER I incorporate Kismet's IM1 banter.
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: neriana on December 06, 2004, 12:32:37 AM
Ahem! I believe 4 also comes before 6.
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: Pirengle on December 06, 2004, 01:07:32 AM
Actually, there is precedent. The last time I filled in as a judge was IM2, and I failed to get my entry working in time to be judged then, too. The only difference is, this go round, the debug was idiotically simple enough that I got it working a few minutes after the deadline disqualified me, rather than hours.

Well, if there IS precedent, I'll shut up now. I need time to get my hand out of this vice.
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: Quitch on December 06, 2004, 02:23:48 AM
Bons, please learn to be concise.  I don't know how many more epic comments I can take.

Interesting theme, though the fact that most contestants are regulars here showed in the interpretation of the theme, which I found a little dull across the board (judged solely from the comments though).  Congratulations to the person who came up with it though, it was a good one.
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: jester on December 06, 2004, 02:25:39 AM
Congrats Domi!

Quote
Better to fail gloriously making a grand attempt than to not even try." -- Bons

Golden words, mylady! I bow to everyone who dared to compete.

Due to the fact that she managed like nobody else to assemble, pamper and coerce a wide array of people to work on BG1NPC's for a very, very long time I would have suggested Iron Maiden after the medieval...., but luckily I ereased that thought before my hands could type it.
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: Meira on December 06, 2004, 03:00:07 AM
Congratulations Domi!   ;D
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: neriana on December 06, 2004, 03:16:00 AM
Bons, please learn to be concise.  I don't know how many more epic comments I can take.

Be concise, or be descriptive?  ::)

Bons, I loved your comments. Treble them next time. ;D I was wondering what inspired you to compare my mod to peanut butter. Did it stick to the roof of your mouth?
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: Shed on December 06, 2004, 03:20:26 AM
Congratulations Domi :)!

All the content in my mod was original, and I had no characters named Bruce, so I don't quite know what UU means (something to do with the one-day NPCs?). Still, I got marks, which was better than last time :D! Yay.
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: nethrin on December 06, 2004, 03:34:59 AM
congrats, domi!

@jcompton: cheers for the suggestion, but I'll pass because it wouldn't be fair.  I've had a lot of time to think about the theme, and part of the time constraint is coming up with the idea AND coding it in 4 hours.  but cheers, anyway.
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: Bons on December 06, 2004, 06:32:55 AM
Bons, please learn to be concise.  I don't know how many more epic comments I can take.

Quitch, please watch "Iron Chef" for comprehension. It may help you in your ongoing quest to grasp the contest/content style that inspired the Iron Modder format. Do keep up the amusing observations, though.
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: jcompton on December 06, 2004, 09:08:57 AM
Interesting theme, though the fact that most contestants are regulars here showed in the interpretation of the theme, which I found a little dull across the board (judged solely from the comments though).

All I can do is tell everybody about the contest, announce the theme, and see what we get. People oversleep, have their girlfriends over, get called into work, and on and on. In terms of working entries we did much better than IM4 and IM5, which is heartening. If there's more effective evangelism to be done to drum up other modders, though, it'll probably need to come from others. I think they've heard my message.

Quote
Congratulations to the person who came up with it though, it was a good one.

I've come up with all the themes myself, because that way I'm sure nobody else knows them in advance.
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: Quitch on December 06, 2004, 10:06:52 AM
Bons, please learn to be concise.  I don't know how many more epic comments I can take.

Be concise, or be descriptive?  ::)

Since when did the two become mutually exclusive?  Not to mention that the Iron Modder judges' comments have never served a purpose beyond slightly whimsical humour and a basis for the marking.

Quote from: bons
Quitch, please watch "Iron Chef" for comprehension. It may help you in your ongoing quest to grasp the contest/content style that inspired the Iron Modder format. Do keep up the amusing observations, though.

I know of Iron Chef, but the basis of this contest does not appear to have afflicted the other judges with the curse of waffle.

Quote from: jcompton
I've come up with all the themes myself, because that way I'm sure nobody else knows them in advance.

Since you abandoned the one word idea, they've been interesting for the most part.  I'd participate if it weren't for the fact I doubt I could code fast enough.  I haven't done WeiDU in about two years, I'd need to spend all my time looking up functions.
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: jcompton on December 06, 2004, 10:17:20 AM
Since you abandoned the one word idea, they've been interesting for the most part.

Although the one-word theme concept has been suggested, I've never used it. Although this might be evidence that you have shifted to a parallel universe.
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: Ghreyfain on December 06, 2004, 10:18:48 AM
All I can do is tell everybody about the contest, announce the theme, and see what we get. People oversleep, have their girlfriends over, get called into work, and on and on. In terms of working entries we did much better than IM4 and IM5, which is heartening. If there's more effective evangelism to be done to drum up other modders, though, it'll probably need to come from others. I think they've heard my message.

It is kind of sad that there are very few entrants from other modding sites, due to the whole politics and clique thing.  You'd think that for something as noble and pure as Iron Modding, people would be able to set aside their differences.

Quote from: bons
Quitch, please watch "Iron Chef" for comprehension. It may help you in your ongoing quest to grasp the contest/content style that inspired the Iron Modder format. Do keep up the amusing observations, though.

I know of Iron Chef, but the basis of this contest does not appear to have afflicted the other judges with the curse of waffle.

Please don't make any effort to understand Iron Mod, Quitch.  I find that it has almost become part of the event itself, to read your comments on how it works. :)  That may seem belittling, or something, but I really don't mean it that way, I'm just not sure how to phrase it any other way.

Quote from: quitch
Quote from: jcompton
I've come up with all the themes myself, because that way I'm sure nobody else knows them in advance.

Since you abandoned the one word idea, they've been interesting for the most part. I'd participate if it weren't for the fact I doubt I could code fast enough. I haven't done WeiDU in about two years, I'd need to spend all my time looking up functions.

So you liked 'em all, eh?
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: Quitch on December 06, 2004, 10:22:41 AM
Since you abandoned the one word idea, they've been interesting for the most part.

Although the one-word theme concept has been suggested, I've never used it. Although this might be evidence that you have shifted to a parallel universe.

I thought the first two had been one worders... ah, my memory betrays me.

Quote from: Ghreyfain
Please don't make any effort to understand Iron Mod, Quitch.  I find that it has almost become part of the event itself, to read your comments on how it works. Smiley  That may seem belittling, or something, but I really don't mean it that way, I'm just not sure how to phrase it any other way.

I make no effort to dress up my comments for the benefits of others, and nor do I expect them to do so for me.  I have no problem with the style of the judges' comments, but I think such a style should be marked by its brevity.

Quote from: Ghreyfain
So you liked 'em all, eh?

The later themes endear themselves more to me.
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: Ashara on December 06, 2004, 11:01:18 AM
I won? Swell. 'Twas an honor to share the virtual kitchen with such an esteemed company of cooks. Well played, everyone, especially Sim  :pirate  Bons, truly sorry that you had the glitch. SConrad - Hubelpot is a wonderful mod :)  I am glad that you have enjoyed this small ToL joke :)

For Calgary and G3,
Domi
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: jcompton on December 06, 2004, 11:48:32 AM
SConrad - Hubelpot is a wonderful mod :)

Please see the judging commentary for explanation as to why it makes a rather poor Iron Mod.

I really don't intend to ask the judges to waste their time in that fashion ever again. Whatever you want to think of Iron Modder as being, fundamentally it is an exercise to create something new.
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: SimDing0™ on December 06, 2004, 12:06:42 PM
Perhaps amending the rules to disallow precreated content would be worthwhile? I think most of the fun of Iron Modder comes with having to create something IN the time period.
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: jester on December 06, 2004, 12:10:41 PM
Some people go to great lengths to shorten that time period even further as it is too long for any serious modder. :P
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: jcompton on December 06, 2004, 12:28:42 PM
Perhaps amending the rules to disallow precreated content would be worthwhile? I think most of the fun of Iron Modder comes with having to create something IN the time period.

Enforcement headache. How can we judge a mod in a half-hour if we have to spend all that time comparing it to hundreds of other mods? And if someone wants to create, say, an encounter with some tactical bite to it, I don't want to force them to recreate enemy AI from scratch.

Similar problems occur if I say "Must be 75% new content." How do I measure that? Byte count? Lines of code? Lines of dialogue? Etc.

By and large, the competition polices itself pretty well within the limited guidelines.
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: Ashara on December 06, 2004, 12:32:49 PM
SConrad - Hubelpot is a wonderful mod :)

Please see the judging commentary for explanation as to why it makes a rather poor Iron Mod.

I really don't intend to ask the judges to waste their time in that fashion ever again. Whatever you want to think of Iron Modder as being, fundamentally it is an exercise to create something new.

O, I agree with this, and with judges' ruling - but I too thought 'Hubelpot fits the profile' when I saw the contest topic. I agree with Sim's comment on not allowing the things prepared in advance. The fun is in making it on the spot, definetly. But as JC had pointed out it can only be enforced by self-policing.
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: SimDing0™ on December 06, 2004, 12:33:16 PM
Is it really any harder to enforce than the current system? I can easily have a ton of appropriate Quest Pack material that nobody's ever seen before, so you all think it's new. There's still a certain degree of modder honesty involved.
Although yes, the current system of "no marks for precreated content" does handle the idea of reusing a script vs submitting all of DLTC rather better than if all premade content was BANED.
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: jcompton on December 06, 2004, 12:58:59 PM
Is it really any harder to enforce than the current system? I can easily have a ton of appropriate Quest Pack material that nobody's ever seen before, so you all think it's new. There's still a certain degree of modder honesty involved.

Right, which is all the more reason I don't bother trying to forbid it. :)
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: Andyr on December 06, 2004, 01:00:29 PM
Due to the fact that she managed like nobody else to assemble, pamper and coerce a wide array of people to work on BG1NPC's for a very, very long time I would have suggested Iron Maiden after the medieval...., but luckily I ereased that thought before my hands could type it.

Definitely. :D

Congrats, Domi!
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: Userunfriendly on December 06, 2004, 05:56:09 PM
Is it really any harder to enforce than the current system? I can easily have a ton of appropriate Quest Pack material that nobody's ever seen before, so you all think it's new. There's still a certain degree of modder honesty involved.

Right, which is all the more reason I don't bother trying to forbid it. :)

and the judges know...i know in at least one iron mod i've judged before that i gave lower scores in innovation because the entry had a brand new area map, and there was no way that could have been created in the time limit allowed...in compensation, i gave it higher scores in originality and entertainment because the new area had some interesting npcs and snappy witty dialog...

so really it all evens out...for example, i tend to score pretty tough...i don't hand out 5s and 10s often, which comepensates nicely with the other judges if they like to grade things higher..... :pirate
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: SimDing0™ on December 07, 2004, 02:03:34 AM
While true in that case, I'd be wary of assuming that new area art can't be done at all in 4 hours. I might give it a try some time.
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: Quitch on December 07, 2004, 09:56:19 AM
I suspect that was one of Cuv's.  Wouldn't surprise me if he could, considering how many new areas he's produced... more than anyone else in the community I'd wager.
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: jcompton on December 07, 2004, 09:57:45 AM
Cuv's done new areas both times he entered, actually. The one in IM3 was striking for the interesting shape of the door portal alone. :)
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: Echon on December 07, 2004, 10:27:30 AM
I think Max made a new area for an IM entry but it was disqualified at it did not install properly.

-Echon
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: jcompton on December 07, 2004, 10:33:31 AM
But as none of us ever saw it, I was substantially less impressed by it than I was by Cuv's angular portal. :)
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: SimDing0™ on December 07, 2004, 11:14:32 AM
I suspect that was one of Cuv's. Wouldn't surprise me if he could, considering how many new areas he's produced... more than anyone else in the community I'd wager.
So how many of them can we play right now? :)
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: Ashara on December 07, 2004, 11:28:23 AM
making area in 4 hours? That's not an Irong modder, it's a mythril one, or ilithium :)
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: jcompton on December 07, 2004, 11:49:48 AM
The Bitch Goddess of New Areas is mighty and extremely capricious. Iron Modders should follow their muse, but be wary of having their muse hit them in the face with a bat. :)
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: jester on December 07, 2004, 12:04:32 PM
This cues another another insert for any Iron Mod readme:

'No animals were hurt in the production of this mod.'

A nice method of inspiration though given how outdated simple kisses can nowadays be with all these groupies smooching about. More stern methods are surely needed for the self-respecting muse to get that area going.
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: Cuv on December 07, 2004, 04:01:07 PM
Is it really any harder to enforce than the current system? I can easily have a ton of appropriate Quest Pack material that nobody's ever seen before, so you all think it's new. There's still a certain degree of modder honesty involved.

Right, which is all the more reason I don't bother trying to forbid it. :)

and the judges know...i know in at least one iron mod i've judged before that i gave lower scores in innovation because the entry had a brand new area map, and there was no way that could have been created in the time limit allowed...in compensation, i gave it higher scores in originality and entertainment because the new area had some interesting npcs and snappy witty dialog...

so really it all evens out...for example, i tend to score pretty tough...i don't hand out 5s and 10s often, which comepensates nicely with the other judges if they like to grade things higher..... :pirate

Hehe... interesting.    You actually gave me the higher scores for the premade content after all.    The NPC's and their dialog was pre-made,  not the club area.  The segway from the copper coronet was premade also.   That was listed in the readme.   The area, creature placement and functional scripts were the real creation.    I wrote some quick dialog for my namesake to take in the theme, along with an item(with effects) and new bams also made on the fly.  I would ask that judges actually read the README in the future before assuming what can and can't be done in 4 hours.   
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: Quitch on December 07, 2004, 06:06:37 PM
I suspect that was one of Cuv's. Wouldn't surprise me if he could, considering how many new areas he's produced... more than anyone else in the community I'd wager.
So how many of them can we play right now? :)

Not entirely sure how that would have a bearing on his experience in creating areas.  Do you only remember work you publish or something?  Can't say as I suffer from that.
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: SimDing0™ on December 08, 2004, 02:02:09 AM
THEN LET US BEGIN THE SEMANTICS BATTLE.

I never said anything about it bearing on his experience, so where did that come from? On the other hand, I don't try to convince people of my superiority using work that nobody else can see, so... there's something of a balance in the argument.

END TURN.
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: Quitch on December 08, 2004, 06:02:47 AM
So, if you weren't referring to his experience, what exactly was the purpose of your post?

I don't recall ever using any mod I have worked on as a basis for any idea I have ever put forward, but please, continue to base your posts on false memories.

I'm sorry you take such offence to someone believing that the Iron Modder format could be better, but then, as I'm sure you realise, that's your problem.
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: SimDing0™ on December 08, 2004, 09:52:26 AM
I didn't think I'd said anything about the format of Iron Modder. Perhaps that's the FALSE MEMORIES kicking in again.

Quote
I suspect that was one of Cuv's. Wouldn't surprise me if he could, considering how many new areas he's produced... more than anyone else in the community I'd wager.
Now, that sounds like a claim. I'm simply pointing out that a claim based on something nobody else can see doesn't carry much weight. And I managed to get the classic RTW joke in there. Anything else you've read into my responses is purely conjecture on your part. :)
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: Bons on December 08, 2004, 11:41:00 PM
A little birdie who is not Quitch suggested I do some unofficial commentary for Weimer's IM6 entry, so here ya go:

The ichigo daifuku of our modding meal, Weimer gifts us with dessert in this feast of tainted heroes. Per the detailed instructions of the gracious ReadMe, I scampered my test party to the Umar Hills without delay! This mod provides the addition of an NPC that goes by the name of Thomas Covenant, who makes his presence known during the interactions with the mayor of Imnesvale. Finally, a TC for BGII! Happiness! Oh, what interesting interjections from an intruiguing interloper! What auspicious appropriations of amazing alliteration! What devious designs delineated during dialogue! I greatly enjoyed the acknowledgement of Yoshimo, yes, THE Yoshimo, during this first encounter, the further dialogues with rescued Mazzy, and the inclusion of an interesting book item "The Virtue of Selfishness" - just like Christmas Chez Bons!

With the new NPC in party, I sprinted to rescue Mazzy and confront the Shade Lord. Using a judge's regulated playtime, completing the inherent quests in the 30 minutes alloted was like cleaning a fratboy's futon after a kegger: a sticky challenge! Aware of the monumental task at hand, my heart bounced like the forest bunnies, anticipating the rush of adventure to come! The availability of CTRL+Y filled me delight, and Covenant handily solved one of the Temple Ruins quests, also speeding my progress toward the mod's culmination.

The final dialogue with Minister Lloyd offered a profusion of replies, hero and non-hero flavor! So many choices, I did not know which to pick! With this rainbow of selections, the nuances and dynamics of the competition's theme burst onto my monitor, an excellent conclusion to this course.
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: weimer on December 09, 2004, 01:37:28 AM
Thanks for taking the time to give me a bit of thematic commentary, Bons. Would you believe that I wasn't aware of the 30 minute time limit (probably because I didn't actually read the directions, sigh) until Jason mentioned it to me in passing after the fact?

On a vaguely-related note, I'm sure that the word "Thomas" does not appear in the mod, although you clearly caught the allusion (crouching anvil, hidden subplot ...). Similarly, I couldn't pass up the Rand reference. I would have done even more to break the fouth wall, but experience tells me that Our Overlord is not as fond of it as I am. Apparently if I'm left to my own devices and I had limited time, all of my dialogues start to sound like Ilyich / Pontifex / Wes In Real Life.

By the way, if Christmas at your place includes Yoshimo and books on philosophy, you'll have to invite us over one of these times. :-)

And to our little birdie: yes, vi is fine.
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: jcompton on December 09, 2004, 01:57:39 AM
On a vaguely-related note, I'm sure that the word "Thomas" does not appear in the mod, although you clearly caught the allusion (crouching anvil, hidden subplot ...). Similarly, I couldn't pass up the Rand reference. I would have done even more to break the fouth wall, but experience tells me that Our Overlord is not as fond of it as I am.

Looking at the mods that have scored well, I'm not certain there's a statistically significant advantage to employing or omitting ye olde fourth-wall breakers. Domi's entry is certainly not spectacularly immersive, being essentially a Neeber/Noober in-joke. It's worth noting that I didn't score it as high as some of the other judges--but then, it won anyway, for I am but one judge. In fact (trivia note) in both of the very close IM contests (3 and 6), I did not "pick the winner." Is there a lesson there? (Hopefully, yes, "Compton hasn't picked judges who think exactly the way he does," which is good, because if I just wanted to look at my score sheet 4 times, I'd save 3 people the use of a perfectly good Sunday afternoon and just make photocopies.)

My thought when I saw what you'd done is, "Ah! A joinable NPC from _another_ canon! Give Wes three _more_ years and he'll have a joinable, completely original character!" Had Covenant been made instead of linguini and clams ala Weimer on Sunday afternoon, the Originality score would have been tricky.

Quote
And to our little birdie: yes, vi is fine.

How efficient, saving valuable electrons putting that here. :)
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: SimDing0™ on December 09, 2004, 06:09:23 AM
I continue to suggest "integration with the game" as a category for judging.

(Because then I get more Quest Pack material, obviously.)
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: Userunfriendly on December 09, 2004, 07:47:16 PM
The same little bird who is not Quitch also visited me as well.

Weimer's entry was a feast for all!  A bit of moral ambiguity, some intricately crafted dialog, and some astonishingly well crafted touches.

I particularly liked one simple little throwaway line, when the Mayor mentions he wishes to gift you with the armor reward in hopes that will dissuade his daughter from following the adventurer's life.  I encountered a few bugs, however I am not at all certain whether it was my build or the mod. The bugs did not detract from the zesty flavor of the mod, which brings up a few wrinkles in my head as I attempt to answer some of the interesting philosphical musings prompted by this wonderful entry.

As per Weimer's patented trademark homages simply added to the enjoyment of this mod.  I really liked that almost throway touch of white gold in the ferrule of Covenant's sword.

Yay! :pirate :pirate :pirate
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: Userunfriendly on December 09, 2004, 07:52:44 PM
No little birdie chirped in my ear, but I took a look at Bon's entry as well.

A repulsive and disturbing little boy was the main character in Bon's entry.  I will admit my favorite moments while playing this mod was when I chose rather evil dialog options to say to the little boy who's name was rather familiar.  Certainly the standout feature in Bon's mod is as before the enjoyable and superb voice acting by none other than the author of this mod.  I particularly liked the magnifying glass dialog, causing me to both simultaniously grimace in disgust, and giggle at the deliberate magnification of rather bad traits exhibited by the little boy.  A most enjoyable morsel! ;)
Title: Re: Iron Modder 6 Discussion
Post by: Imrahil on December 11, 2004, 11:57:59 PM
I've complained about the lack of description by the judges in past IM contests, but I have to say that these were much better.  I have a pretty good idea of what each of them does (as far as where to go, who it involves, if it's game-breaking, etc.) without feeling spoiled.  I don't mind the "foody" commentary as long as it's descriptive.  Keep up the good work!  :)

- Imrahil