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BG1 Completed Mods => The Fields of the Dead => Topic started by: Echon on September 13, 2004, 03:27:11 PM

Title: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Echon on September 13, 2004, 03:27:11 PM
Come one, come all and complain to your heart's content. :)

Considering the many replies this thread recieved at the TeamBG forum, people have a lot to complain about. If you voice your dissatisfaction here, I might do something about it if I consider it reasonable in nature and scope. There are probably some who would have liked to lead armies against Amn, help Sarevok level Baldur's Gate or build their own keep in the Wood of Sharp Teeth but that is all beyond the scope of this mod. Nothing prevents you from suggesting things like that but I am likely going to ignore it.

Examples of things I did not like:

That it is not possible to steal Unshey's girdle after delivering it to him (he may don it, of course).
That most spells did not do everything they claimed to do. (Already taken care of).
That it was not possible to both sell ankheg shells to Taerom and have him manufacture armour of them, and that he would only do it once.

Others did not like that the Flametongue Sword did not do fire damage, that it should be possible to accept a courtesan's offer, and so on. Hopefully you get the picture. If you replied to the TeamBG thread, you do not need to repeat it here as I wrote everything down (that I intended to do something about).

-Echon
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: mcruz on September 13, 2004, 03:43:44 PM
I guess one thing that kinda annoyed me was that Kivan didn't really seem to react to Tazok's presence (either when you pretended to join the bandits or at the last battle with Sarevok and company)...at least some dialogue would be nice

that is all for now  :)

Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Echon on September 13, 2004, 03:53:00 PM
I forgot to mention that the mod will contain no changes or additions to the dialogues of the joinable NPCs. This is in part because the BG NPC Project already takes care of that, and as I never intended to do anything major with their dialogues anyway, I have decided not to alter them at all. This may help to ensure compatibility, although I am not certain about it.

-Echon
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: SimDing0™ on September 13, 2004, 03:54:14 PM
Please... don't avoid changing them if the necessity arises just for the sake of BG1NPC. There are people who don't play with it. :)
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Echon on September 13, 2004, 04:04:46 PM
Heh. I doubt the necessity will arrise as altering existing dialogues was never part of my goal. I can think of one, perhaps two, creatures whose dialogues I had new ideas for and none of these were joinable NPCs. Only new dialogues are garuanteed.

-Echon
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: NiGHTMARE on September 13, 2004, 04:34:39 PM
Please... don't avoid changing them if the necessity arises just for the sake of BG1NPC. There are people who don't play with it. :)
More fool them :P.
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Galactygon on September 13, 2004, 05:44:53 PM
I might have mentioned it before back at TeamBG, (about spells) is the following:
1.) Otiluke's Resilient Sphere allows a saving throw if you cast it as a protective spell on allies (can be fixed via .eff files).
2.) There was an annoying 1 second wait time for Dimension Door (and had a casting time of two rather than one); in Shadow Door this was absent. You disappeared instantly.
3.) Friendly Spells don't ignore magic resistance

These three items here that remind me of an idea I wanted to share:

Have each party member have an 'innate ability' to lower their saving throws, magic resistance, etc. to one for 2 seconds (in real time), so you can make them delibretly (sp?) fail their saving throws if you chug a fireball at them.

Just a thought. :)

-Galactygon
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Echon on September 14, 2004, 02:20:23 AM
1.) Otiluke's Resilient Sphere allows a saving throw if you cast it as a protective spell on allies (can be fixed via .eff files).

I can see why this would be useful but it also means that the spell would always be successful on hostile party members who have been charmed or dominated.

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2.) There was an annoying 1 second wait time for Dimension Door (and had a casting time of two rather than one); in Shadow Door this was absent. You disappeared instantly.

3.) Friendly Spells don't ignore magic resistance

That has already been taken care of. As for #3, the site should already state this.

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Have each party member have an 'innate ability' to lower their saving throws, magic resistance, etc. to one for 2 seconds (in real time), so you can make them delibretly (sp?) fail their saving throws if you chug a fireball at them.

Why? I can understand lowering magic resistance if friendly spells and effects did not ignore it but they do.

-Echon
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: SimDing0™ on September 14, 2004, 07:36:20 AM
1.) Otiluke's Resilient Sphere allows a saving throw if you cast it as a protective spell on allies (can be fixed via .eff files).

I can see why this would be useful but it also means that the spell would always be successful on hostile party members who have been charmed or dominated.
If they've been charmed, can we not assume that they can be controlled to submit to any spells cast on them?
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Echon on September 14, 2004, 07:59:13 AM
If they've been charmed, can we not assume that they can be controlled to submit to any spells cast on them?

If they have been charmed by enemy NPCs and are hostile towards the party?

-Echon
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: SimDing0™ on September 14, 2004, 08:00:20 AM
Oh, sorry, I wasn't thinking properly. You're right.
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Mageling on September 14, 2004, 08:41:06 AM
I don't know if this was said before but,
when i have the cloak of balduran on...and branwen tries to heal me
i get like: magic resistance  :P

soooooooooooooo...... :-yin
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Galactygon on September 14, 2004, 08:52:12 AM
Who said they had to cast the Resilient Sphere when they are charmed? They don't have to cast all of the spells; only a few. ;)

-Galactygon
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Echon on September 14, 2004, 09:06:01 AM
I don't know if this was said before but,
when i have the cloak of balduran on...and branwen tries to heal me
i get like: magic resistance  :P

soooooooooooooo...... :-yin

"All friendly spells now ignore magic resistance to take into account that any being with magic resistance can lower it at will."

-Echon
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Mageling on September 14, 2004, 09:20:35 AM
I don't know if this was said before but,
when i have the cloak of balduran on...and branwen tries to heal me
i get like: magic resistance  :P

soooooooooooooo...... :-yin

"All friendly spells now ignore magic resistance to take into account that any being with magic resistance can lower it at will."

-Echon


ow right i forgot  ::)
stupid me ;x  :-Zzz
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: hlidskialf on September 14, 2004, 12:32:42 PM
1) No one is interested in the "Vials of mysterious fluid" you get from the Nashkel mines. You'd think that at least Thalantyr or the fellow at the Sorcerous Sunderies would be interested in it's alchemey.

2) The cheesey way the party gets to "help" the children in the game. It seems that so long as the party notes something sad in it journal they don't have to do anything to help. eg) The kid who's somewhat "crazy" from watching his family animated as undead by that insane cleric Bassilus. Or the girl in Baldur's Gate city that asks you to get the ring to rescue her cat. "Here's the ring, now you have your kitty. Go enjoy a homeless existance. We have tonnes of money but won't even give you any since I'm gonig to write in my journal how your life is going to make me sad." I know it's kinda sucky, but if YOU found a kid in trouble (with a good alignment at least) would you just walk away? Take the kid to a temple for cryin' out loud.

3) You can only get 1 set of ankheg armour made at the Taerum smithy. And if you don't choose it right away, you lose the option for later.

4) Otiluke's Sphere problem. (You've already addressed it.) It's the number 1 BG1 "Save the NPC before they die." spell.

5) The ArchDruid in the Cloakwood forest is a pussy.

6) Bears too easily get hostile. They need a longer timer before going after the party, or a chance to leave instead of attacking. Most bears in RL will "depart" when they hear someone coming unless protecting cubs/a kill. Since the party is covered in jingly metal bits, you'd think that the bear might be forewarned.

7) Delainly (The werewolf wench) should have the option to join the party. I know about the other mod, but we need some kind of BG1 version.  ;D

8) The Gullykin store blows. There should be some interesting or at least halfing oriented items in the inventory.

9) Another option for discovering about the whole Flaming Fist take-over, etc... It'd be cool if one could go to a temple to summon the ghost of Scar to ask a few questions.

10) You should be able to continue the game after killing Sarevok and do the TotSC quests at that point. If not, then there should be some kind of delay for chapter 6/7 where "Sarevok is out of touch for a couple months. Go find something else to do until he returns so you can settle this crap."

11) Who made the zombies in that northern farm? It shouts either "mini-quest" or a rumor or something.

12) There should be the option of some kind of "wrath" dialog for Shandalar. As it is now, if you do the quest and are pissed, he leaves before you can extract satisfaction.  :pirate

Just a few things that popped into me head.
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Ghreyfain on September 14, 2004, 12:50:23 PM
3) You can only get 1 set of ankheg armour made at the Taerum smithy. And if you don't choose it right away, you lose the option for later.

How rich is Taerom though?  I think some way to keep this from becoming an infinite money fount would be in order.  How hard is it to kill Ankhegs, after all?  Then with those funds you could stock up on a million poison arrows, and take out flesh golems in the Safana map until you're level 9.  All before tackling Mulahey. :)

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8) The Gullykin store blows. There should be some interesting or at least halfing oriented items in the inventory.

Actually, I think that Gullykin and the temple of Helm in Nashkel share the same .sto file.  I've sold items in Nashkel and then been able to buy them in Gullykin.  It could be another store (Friendly Arm Inn maybe?), but I know that Gullykin and some other store somewhere use the same file.

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10) You should be able to continue the game after killing Sarevok and do the TotSC quests at that point. If not, then there should be some kind of delay for chapter 6/7 where "Sarevok is out of touch for a couple months. Go find something else to do until he returns so you can settle this crap."

I agree with the continuation of TotSC, but disagree with the "Sarevok's on Holidays" bit.  I don't want my intense chase interrupted if I decide I don't want to play Durlag's tower during that particular game.
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: hlidskialf on September 14, 2004, 01:10:17 PM
3) You can only get 1 set of ankheg armour made at the Taerum smithy. And if you don't choose it right away, you lose the option for later.

How rich is Taerom though?  I think some way to keep this from becoming an infinite money fount would be in order.  How hard is it to kill Ankhegs, after all?  Then with those funds you could stock up on a million poison arrows, and take out flesh golems in the Safana map until you're level 9.  All before tackling Mulahey. :)

I was talking about commissioning the armour not selling the shells. The former does nothing but make Taerum money. (It costs the Player a significant sum, and 10 days.) The latter is the money-for-party generator. I agree that there must be a limit on the latter. "I can't afford to buy any more off ye', maybe next year."

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10) You should be able to continue the game after killing Sarevok and do the TotSC quests at that point. If not, then there should be some kind of delay for chapter 6/7 where "Sarevok is out of touch for a couple months. Go find something else to do until he returns so you can settle this crap."

I agree with the continuation of TotSC, but disagree with the "Sarevok's on Holidays" bit.  I don't want my intense chase interrupted if I decide I don't want to play Durlag's tower during that particular game.

Well the first choice is my favorite. The second is only to justify doing the quests instead of beating Sarevok/ending the game immeditately. Which actually makes sense. "You are hunted, Sarevok is about to start a war, must be time to sail on a 3 month voyage."  :P
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: SimDing0™ on September 14, 2004, 01:12:37 PM
Why do you do the TotSC quests after you kill Sarevok? They're designed as add-ins, to be completed beforehand. In any case, what WOULD end the game if killing Sarevok doesn't?
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: hlidskialf on September 14, 2004, 01:21:47 PM
Why do you do the TotSC quests after you kill Sarevok? They're designed as add-ins, to be completed beforehand. In any case, what WOULD end the game if killing Sarevok doesn't?

I'd have to disagree Sim, the quests were not designed to be played properly as Add-ins. They require that the player be as high a level as possible by BG1 experience before attempting them. This mandates that they must be done near the end of the game. However there is no place in the last half the chapters of the game where the player can realistically just go on quests for the adventure of it. Assuming you do anyways, by the time you've completed the quests, your level is too high to be challenged by Sarevok and his merry band. It was poorly slapped onto the main plot. It makes much more sense to have them take place AFTER defeating Sarevok. They didn't because they'd have to redo the ending to the game to a less dramatic "...and your adventures continue. Yada, yada." This kind of ending is far less satisfying, but better for a BG2 lead-in IMO.

Edit: Another point. What else is a high level adventuring party supposed to do after defeating their nemisis? High powered items, spells, weapons just getting dusty is a guareented call to adventure.  ;D
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Echon on September 14, 2004, 01:27:09 PM
3) You can only get 1 set of ankheg armour made at the Taerum smithy. And if you don't choose it right away, you lose the option for later.

This is something I intend to alter. There may be a limit to the number of shells he will buy from you but not to the amount of armours he will craft. It will still remain expensive and timeconsuming, of course. I should probably also point out that ankheg armours no longer provide as good a protection as full plate mails do but on the other hand, they no longer count as magical.

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4) Otiluke's Sphere problem. (You've already addressed it.) It's the number 1 BG1 "Save the NPC before they die." spell.

Will be done.

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5) The ArchDruid in the Cloakwood forest is a pussy.

Not anymore. ;)

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6) Bears too easily get hostile. They need a longer timer before going after the party, or a chance to leave instead of attacking. Most bears in RL will "depart" when they hear someone coming unless protecting cubs/a kill. Since the party is covered in jingly metal bits, you'd think that the bear might be forewarned.

I have been thinking about altering animal behaviour. Wolves do not normally attack humans on sight, e.g. It is a possibility.

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8) The Gullykin store blows. There should be some interesting or at least halfing oriented items in the inventory.

Already done. It is a lot more halfling-oriented now and it also has a new unique items for sale.

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10) You should be able to continue the game after killing Sarevok and do the TotSC quests at that point. If not, then there should be some kind of delay for chapter 6/7 where "Sarevok is out of touch for a couple months. Go find something else to do until he returns so you can settle this crap.

I suggested allowing the game to continue on TeamBG's forum but never really got any feedback on it. One obvious problem with allowing this would be that the game does not reflect Sarevok's death afterwards and I am certainly not going to attempt to fix that. On the other hand, nothing forces the player to continue the game. If he or she does not think it should continue, it can be stopped manually right there.

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11) Who made the zombies in that northern farm? It shouts either "mini-quest" or a rumor or something.

I think BioWare ran out of ideas at the end of the production of Tales of the Sword Coast and found they still had one new area to fill. Luckily they had this very enthusiastic trainee around the place at the time... ;)

It might be worth building on, though.

A lot of good ideas but I think the unadressed ones are beyond the scope of this project. I will need to finish it some day. :)

-Echon
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Spif on September 14, 2004, 01:28:53 PM
Why do you do the TotSC quests after you kill Sarevok? They're designed as add-ins, to be completed beforehand. In any case, what WOULD end the game if killing Sarevok doesn't?

I'd have to disagree Sim, the quests were not designed to be played properly as Add-ins. They require that the player be as high a level as possible by BG1 experience before attempting them. This mandates that they must be done near the end of the game. However there is no place in the last half the chapters of the game where the player can realistically just go on quests for the adventure of it. Assuming you do anyways, by the time you've completed the quests, your level is too high to be challenged by Sarevok and his merry band. It was poorly slapped onto the main plot. It makes much more sense to have them take place AFTER defeating Sarevok. They didn't because they'd have to redo the ending to the game to a less dramatic "...and your adventures continue. Yada, yada." This kind of ending is far less satisfying, but better for a BG2 lead-in IMO.

Edit: Another point. What else is a high level adventuring party supposed to do after defeating their nemisis? High powered items, spells, weapons just getting dusty is a guareented call to adventure.  ;D

It would require tons of new dialogue if the game doesn't end after you defeat Sarevok. BioWare realized this during the development. You can actually find unused dialogues where citizens praise you for what you have done.
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: SimDing0™ on September 14, 2004, 01:31:10 PM
I'd have to disagree Sim, the quests were not designed to be played properly as Add-ins. They require that the player be as high a level as possible by BG1 experience before attempting them.

The most fun I had playing through Durlag's Tower was with a low-level (for BG1) party. I headed there as soon as I was able to take out the Battle Horrors. I don't think being post-Sarevok is a requirement.
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Echon on September 14, 2004, 01:33:44 PM
How rich is Taerom though?  I think some way to keep this from becoming an infinite money fount would be in order.  How hard is it to kill Ankhegs, after all?  Then with those funds you could stock up on a million poison arrows, and take out flesh golems in the Safana map until you're level 9.  All before tackling Mulahey. :)

Alright, a few comments. The party will not be able to sell infinite ankheg shells to Taerom. They will not even be able to kill ankhegs infinitely as they no longer continue to spawn over and over again. Along that note, the Flesh Golem exploit has also been removed. And thirdly, all shops have finite amounts of magical items to sell.

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Actually, I think that Gullykin and the temple of Helm in Nashkel share the same .sto file.  I've sold items in Nashkel and then been able to buy them in Gullykin.  It could be another store (Friendly Arm Inn maybe?), but I know that Gullykin and some other store somewhere use the same file.

I have taken care of the duplicate stores.

-Echon
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Echon on September 14, 2004, 01:36:57 PM
I was talking about commissioning the armour not selling the shells. The former does nothing but make Taerum money. (It costs the Player a significant sum, and 10 days.) The latter is the money-for-party generator. I agree that there must be a limit on the latter. "I can't afford to buy any more off ye', maybe next year."

While I do agree that the party should only be able to sell a few shells to him to avoid an exploit, have a look at what Taerom actually has to say about your selling the ankheg shell to him:

"Ahhh, this will make a fine suit of plate for a governor or better.  Nobility like exotic materials, and don't care much about the price.  Probably close to 20,000 gold for a tenday's work when I'm finished.  I may survive this iron shortage after all."

-Echon
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Ghreyfain on September 14, 2004, 02:06:17 PM
Yeah, but how long is it going to stay in his shoppe before a governor/noble buys it?
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Echon on September 15, 2004, 07:50:11 AM
Assuming you do anyways, by the time you've completed the quests, your level is too high to be challenged by Sarevok and his merry band. It was poorly slapped onto the main plot.

What I inted to do is to change the fight with Sarevok and his allies to make sure it provides a challenge for a party that has reached the new XP cap.

-Echon
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Galactygon on September 15, 2004, 09:54:27 AM
Assuming you do anyways, by the time you've completed the quests, your level is too high to be challenged by Sarevok and his merry band. It was poorly slapped onto the main plot.

What I inted to do is to change the fight with Sarevok and his allies to make sure it provides a challenge for a party that has reached the new XP cap.

I hope it will not be Sarevok and his gang getting extra hitpoints and resistances. ;)

-Galactygon
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: SimDing0™ on September 15, 2004, 09:56:49 AM
Even making it so you can't just lure Sarevok out without fighting Angelo and Semaj would be a MAJOR improvement. I imagine the AI updates cover that, however.
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Echon on September 15, 2004, 01:24:54 PM
Their levels will likely remain the same, and Sarevok will probably even lose his innate resistances, which, as far as I remember, was magic resistance in BG and then changed to elemental resistances in TotSC. However, he is quite a resourceful man and they will all be equipped with powerful potions and scrolls of protection.

As Sim suggests, part of the increased difficulty will be that they cannot be lured away one after the other and that they will in fact coorporate.

-Echon
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Reverendratbastard on November 23, 2004, 03:26:29 PM

 i second hlidskialf's points 1, 2, 5, 6 and 9 from september.  bravo for correcting the gullykin store.  and mcruz's point about tazok being a huge part of kivan's motivation, but having no bearing on his behavior when encountered.

 i also thought that entering/messing around in entar silvershield's home was terribly simplistic and dull.  better defenses, at least?  is there even a thread dealing with his son's caravan/presumed death besides kagain's abortive investigation?

 and (not that i've actually tested this, admittedly) couldn't a high wis/int give charname a chance to notice something funny about the name 'koveras'?  obviously not to the extent of a shortcut to the final confrontation, but maybe an extra little thread in which 'K' says "*sinister chuckle*, my sibling" or whatever, vanishes, blows away rieltar&co (if charname hasn't) and takes off as usual.  even a tiny addition to either confrontation with ulraunt to the effect that S duped candlekeep (perhaps to get him extra-pissed at you even if your alibi is half-decent)?  or quicker and dirtier, like "you bhaalspawn need to learn to clean up your own messes" and 'forcing' you underground to chase yr bro.
 
 also, that the Tome of Leadership and Influence is guarded by xvarts.  cute irony, but still pretty lame.  (true, you have to get past the bridge guard ogrillons, but that's still a pretty flimsy challenge, since you have a good shot of being a 3rd level+ party by the time you get there).
 
 optional-component solution to time/importance imbalance between 'The End' and TotSC:  sarevok and his minions get/got around, obviously.  they could've checked into some of these extra-adventurous locations on their own red herring chases (or to dart in and nab a specific spiffy item such as are found on their persons), but left tracks behind; OR once you've cleared the way to the city of BG, they could throw all kinds of false trails towards the tower or otherwise via ulgoth's beard, any of which could (methinks?) be implemented reasonably well with just a few strings of dialogue in the right spots, a small handful of new messenger.cres?  a misleading 'clue' below candlekeep, one in the iron throne building, hell, one in the last 'dungeon' under the thieves' guild, maybe an illusory wall thrown up by the dying mage/mentor [name escapes me] down there.  even the flaming fist, when they're sympathetic, having some doubts about leads and asking an extra favor along the lines of 'checking with an informant' in ulgoth's beard...
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Echon on November 24, 2004, 04:07:02 AM
Party NPC dialogues will not be altered at all, it was never really part of the concept anyway. Most of the existing quests, and especially the main plot, will also be left untouched.

i also thought that entering/messing around in entar silvershield's home was terribly simplistic and dull.  better defenses, at least?  is there even a thread dealing with his son's caravan/presumed death besides kagain's abortive investigation?

You are right, there should be more guards, especially now that Entar is actually home. Belt and Liia are safely guarded in the Duchal Palace, after all, and Duke Eltan is guarded by the Flaming Fist. As for Kagain, not that I know of.

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also, that the Tome of Leadership and Influence is guarded by xvarts.  cute irony, but still pretty lame.  (true, you have to get past the bridge guard ogrillons, but that's still a pretty flimsy challenge, since you have a good shot of being a 3rd level+ party by the time you get there).

None of the magical tomes and manuals will be where they were.

-Echon
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Reverendratbastard on November 24, 2004, 04:40:56 AM
None of the magical tomes and manuals will be where they were.

  eeeeexcellent. :D
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: NiGHTMARE on November 24, 2004, 07:26:31 AM
BTW the Kagain / Entar's son thing is extended by BG1NPC Project.  I believe there are/will be interjections for Skie, since she would surely have something to say regarding the death of her brother.
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Echon on November 24, 2004, 07:38:35 AM
Good. I was not exactly longing to extend that quest myself.

-Echon
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Ashara on November 29, 2004, 05:38:48 PM
With freshly released BG1NPC Phase II, Kivan reacts violently at seeing Tazok, Branwen recognizes Tranzig, Minsc will not be quiet when Edwin suggest to kill Dynaheir, Red Wizards will not let Edwin wander away side by side with Dynaheir, etc, etc, etc...  :)
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Marauder on January 08, 2005, 07:25:42 AM
What about Medicamp the Chicken? it's mentioned that he stole a pair of bracers from Thalanthyr before running off. In the same area, as Medicamp, is Bassilius. He just happens to have a pair of bracers of fumbling(?) Could this somehow be connected? Couldn't you at least sell them to him for a good price, just for the sake of safekeeping? I found that kinda odd.
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: discharger12 on January 08, 2005, 10:43:17 AM
What about Medicamp the Chicken? it's mentioned that he stole a pair of bracers from Thalanthyr before running off. In the same area, as Medicamp, is Bassilius. He just happens to have a pair of bracers of fumbling(?) Could this somehow be connected? Couldn't you at least sell them to him for a good price, just for the sake of safekeeping? I found that kinda odd.

(It's actually Melicamp as I recall)

I think we should give Thalanthyr his staff back. In the BG Manual it says something like he has a "staff of great power" And maybe make him stronger? He was always easy for my parties.
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Echon on January 09, 2005, 04:21:48 PM
What about Medicamp the Chicken? it's mentioned that he stole a pair of bracers from Thalanthyr before running off. In the same area, as Medicamp, is Bassilius. He just happens to have a pair of bracers of fumbling(?) Could this somehow be connected? Couldn't you at least sell them to him for a good price, just for the sake of safekeeping? I found that kinda odd.

"Yes yes boy, now be quiet a moment.  Blast it.  The Bracers are no longer on him.  It is as I feared.  Likely they either spent what magic they had in a single charge, or it is their wont to be whisked away after inflicting the damage they do.  I had hoped to seal them away, but now it's certain they will fall into the hands of some other unfortunate fool.  Tell me Melicamp: do you quite feel yourself again?"

As Thalantyr's dialogue suggests, they have likely disappeared and thus are not connected to Bassilus' gauntlets. This is, of course, an easy way for BioWare to remove them from the game.

I think we should give Thalanthyr his staff back. In the BG Manual it says something like he has a "staff of great power" And maybe make him stronger? He was always easy for my parties.

It says somewhere that he has a Staff of Power but I am not going to introduce that to the game. I could make him stronger but the party has no real reason to fight him other than the desire for XP. Besides, as he is 17th level, I would have to make new 6th-, 7th- and 8th-level spells just for this NPC.

-Echon
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Aristothenes on January 13, 2005, 01:04:02 PM
No cover bonuses. 'Nuff said.
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Echon on January 13, 2005, 01:45:25 PM
As desirable as they may be, they are entirely impossible to code.

-Echon
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Gay Lord on March 09, 2005, 09:16:10 PM
***1) No one is interested in the "Vials of mysterious fluid" you get from the Nashkel mines. You'd think that at least Thalantyr or the fellow at the Sorcerous Sunderies would be interested in it's alchemey.***

I kept thinking I wasn't doing something right when I went to the mayor.  "We explored the mines and found out that you were being sabotaged!  An evil cleric was in the bowels of the mine, along with a horde of kobolds.  They were poisoning the ore, and THIS is what they were doing it with!"

Everytime I talked to him I would check my inventory and see that the vials were still there.  Having seen on other occasions that items could be extracted from my inventory by the game, I finally decided it was a bug, and just dropped them as if he had taken them.

It would make sense to me that they would serve as proof that you had not only been in the mines but actually found the problem, and hadn't simply been drinking in a tavern for the past week before asking for reward money.  At the least, they should help serve as a base for someone to find an "antidote" to this "poison".

***2) The cheesey way the party gets to "help" the children in the game. It seems that so long as the party notes something sad in it journal they don't have to do anything to help. eg) The kid who's somewhat "crazy" from watching his family animated as undead by that insane cleric Bassilus. Or the girl in Baldur's Gate city that asks you to get the ring to rescue her cat. "Here's the ring, now you have your kitty. Go enjoy a homeless existance. We have tonnes of money but won't even give you any since I'm gonig to write in my journal how your life is going to make me sad." I know it's kinda sucky, but if YOU found a kid in trouble (with a good alignment at least) would you just walk away? Take the kid to a temple for cryin' out loud.**

Where's a priest of Ilmater when you need one?

***9) Another option for discovering about the whole Flaming Fist take-over, etc... It'd be cool if one could go to a temple to summon the ghost of Scar to ask a few questions.***

IIRC, there are already three sources that tell you that Scar was killed.  I think one of the intents with this quest was a bit of mystery: was his death accidental?  Who was behind it?  He had many enemies, was it simply payback?  Will you be blamed for this too?

***11) Who made the zombies in that northern farm? It shouts either "mini-quest" or a rumor or something.***

The farmer of course.  He's a low level evil cleric who, after animating some dead, failed his control undead check and now they are an embarassment on his PLANS TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD!

As for Entar's estate, I didn't understand that at all.  The Diviner in the fair tells you (I think) that Entar is the richest man in the city and that his wealth is in his bedroom.  Yet you go up there and all his wife has are some books.  Does this mean his bedroom is actually with his daughter, since that's where all the wealth is?  Incest?  I thought he needed more appropriate, better placed wealth, and certainly better guards.  "'oy mates, that there Entar's got more gold'n a lepperkahn, 'n only four 1st level guards wid it!  Rally the Guild, we's got plunderin' ta do!"

As for myself, there was only one real problem that really bugged the hell out me.  Why was it that every tom, dick, and harry had  a mage scroll in their loot?  What the hell were GIBBERLINGS doing with scrolls?  They have less hp than mages, lower iq than kobolds, and yet they recognize and carry scrolls?!?  The fact that they have any treasure is bad enough, but scrolls?  I think gibbs should have zero treasure (no clothes, no pockets) and be much more plentiful (they breed like rabbits).  Thus everywhere you go you would be mobbed by hordes of creatures that had no treasure and weren't worth much xp.  That would, imo, make them much more realistic as a semi-dangerous, annoying threat, which is what I think the game intended them to be.

Very few creatures should carry scrolls as loot.  Only mages, since they're the only ones who can use 'em, shoudl carry 'em.  Thus, if you want to expand the spellbooks of mage PCs, you might actually have to go to a store and BUY them.

My number one gripe: too many scrolls.  Limit or eliminate the wealth carried by low level horde creatures like gibbs and kobolds, and make scrolls FEW and FAR BETWEEN.
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Galactygon on March 09, 2005, 10:02:56 PM
Quote
My number one gripe: too many scrolls. Limit or eliminate the wealth carried by low level horde creatures like gibbs and kobolds, and make scrolls FEW and FAR BETWEEN.

Whidst I agree with reducing the amount of scrolls from looting, I was surprised that some of the locations that could have had scrolls were neglected (perhaps some of the noblepeoples' houses or the bookshelves in candlekeep; there were far too few over there compared that it's a place to find such things). On the other hand, it wouldn't hurt that you couldn't just walk into any house and take something from a drawer, without a good chance being noticed.

-Galactygon
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: irenicus on March 10, 2005, 06:52:33 AM
what annoyed me? -thinks- the fact that none of the guys where cute -grins-
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Gay Lord on March 10, 2005, 08:10:09 AM
I think the games were fairly good in allowing opportunies for thieves (and bards) to use their skills.  Unfortunately, there was simply so MUCH wealth all over the place that you had very little reason to steal... ever.  Many fantasy games seem to act as if even the meanest peasant has ample wealth, as if everyone lives in Beverly Hills and gold grows on trees.  I have more of an Oliver Twist view of wealth, and think things should be much more dire.

To me, scrolls are magic items.  Low level, yes, but still magic, and thus rare.

P.S. I see two typos in your sig (if you care)

@Irenicus - you never saw Ajantis with his armor off.    ::) :o ;D
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Echon on March 10, 2005, 10:36:53 AM
Entar Silvershield's estate is actually worth looting now. I just had a look at the areas.

As for scrolls and other loot, I can tell you that the amount of permanent magical items in the game has decreased and one-use magical items such as potions, scrolls and ammonition have increased. However, you are not going to find even weak magical items on critters such as gibberlings, kobolds, hobgoblins, gnolls and so on.

I know there are a lot of creatures which could not possibly carry treasure which do drop treasure and I think it has been designed this way because it is simply more convenient than having to create lairs for all these beasts where they might store their loot. Even the dragons in BG2 drop thousands of coins, a couple of weapons and several other items that they could not carry unless they are a member of the species that come equipped with a Treasury Pouch.

-Echon
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Gay Lord on March 10, 2005, 11:02:26 AM
***Entar Silvershield's estate is actually worth looting now. I just had a look at the areas.***

And sufficiently defended?  He is/was a Duke, and imo should be very challenging, if not impossible, for a party that tries to loot it.

***As for scrolls and other loot, I can tell you that the amount of permanent magical items in the game has decreased and one-use magical items such as potions, scrolls and ammonition have increased. However, you are not going to find even weak magical items on critters such as gibberlings, kobolds, hobgoblins, gnolls and so on.***

 :D ;D :D

I hope this also applies to other wealth as well.  I understand and accept the simplification the game uses of simply having monsters carry wealth instead of making lairs for them.  Nevertheless, I think that the weakest monsters shouldn't have treasure.  At most, basic equipment, like halberds for the gnolls or maces for skeletons, or whatever.  It just gets too much imho when every monster carries loot.  Do we really need to be THAT pampered?

I like the idea of actually having to ration your supplies, to not have so many healing or antidote potions that wounds or poison are irrelevant, that wands are few with few charges, so you don't use them left and right.  With all the magic and wealth that monsters had, PLUS all the magic you could buy, I could afford to waste magic like nobody's business and still have tons left.

With that said, let me thank you for making this mod, and that I'll love it even if it's only half as good as I imagine it will be.  8)
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Echon on March 10, 2005, 12:16:34 PM
Gibberlings, skeletons and zombies have no treasure at all. Kobolds and xvarts have very little, hobgoblins and gnolls have a bit more, ogres even more and so on. I am sure you get the picture.

I know some people like the idea of having to buy food and water, such as the system ToIW was meant to feature, but personally I think it adds too much management to the game. If I want to deal with things like that I will rather play Settlers II. :)

I have removed a lot of wands from the game. You can still buy them (although they cost more now) but you will not be able to fill your packback with wands you have found anymore. It is also worth noting that enemy NPCs with wands will actually use them against you.

Thanks. I hope it turns out twice as good as you imagine it will be. :)

-Echon
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Gay Lord on March 13, 2005, 12:21:05 PM
I just remembered something else, a very minor issue.

I always felt that the rates for inns were much too low.  The pcs are rolling in wealth, tens of thousands of coins, and the cost for a royal room is in the single digits?   For a party of six?  What merchant or even peasant CAN'T afford these rooms?

The room costs are 1, 3, 5, and 8.  My first thought was to raise them by a factor of x100.  The party can easily afford this.  But they can't early on, and npc's prolly can't so, after a fair bit of thought, I decided that x25 was the most realistic, so that the rooms would be 25, 75, 125, and 200.
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Galactygon on March 13, 2005, 12:35:07 PM
Perhaps a 2, 10, 50, 250 could be more realistic?

-Galactygon
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Ghreyfain on March 13, 2005, 12:56:02 PM
Yeah, paying for a pile of straw in the stables doesn't sound like it'd warrant 25 gold.  Even for six people.
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Echon on March 13, 2005, 01:07:39 PM
I altered these prices some time ago as I also felt they needed some adjustment. Firstly, all inns and taverns had the same prices which seemed odd as some places are clearly some expensive than others and secondly, I felt that the better rooms were too cheap. I did not base the prices on what the party could afford but what it seemed realistic for each layer of society to be able to pay. I have deleted the prices but I think they were something like this:

Peasent: 1-3
Merchant: 3-10
Noble: 10-20
Royal: 20-50

On a related note, I also altered which rooms are available in the various taverns as some places certainly do not contain noble or royal rooms, and a few taverns have no real rooms at all.

-Echon
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Gay Lord on March 13, 2005, 03:17:28 PM
That's good.  I wasn't going to suggest bothering to modify room offers, or even price variance, as that's a bit of work, but at least the prices, especially for the better rooms, were definitely in need of a change.  25 coin may seem much for a night in the stables, but so does getting 1000 coin for running a message or some other simple task.

If you had the time and were interested, you could even modify the benefits of the rooms to make them better.  Instead of just offering to heal 1-4 hp, they could heal a larger amount or a percentage of max hp. 

Peasant: 5 gp, night in the stables, heals 1 hp
Merchant: 25 gp, shared rooms, dinner, heals 5 hp
Noble: 100 gp, private room, dinner/breakfast/tailoring/cold bath, heals 25% hp
Royal: 300 gp, private room, private meals, dinner/breakfast/tailoring/hot bath/eau de toilette, heals 50%

'course, this makes temple services, which I've never used and need to be made desireable, even less needed.  Hmmm...
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Galactygon on March 13, 2005, 04:13:10 PM
So, if you have 8 hit points, a merchant room is better than a royal one?

-Galactygon
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Echon on March 13, 2005, 04:19:51 PM
I have no intention of altering the effects of renting a room for the night, and even if I had it would make no difference as that part of the game is hardcoded.

-Echon
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Ghreyfain on March 13, 2005, 04:20:10 PM
On a related note, I also altered which rooms are available in the various taverns as some places certainly do not contain noble or royal rooms, and a few taverns have no real rooms at all.

Yeah, I was going to say something exactly like that.  Of all the inns not in BG city, I think only Feldepost's would have a royal room, and probably only the Jovial Juggler would have a noble room.  The rest would have peasant/merchant rooms.  Oh, I suppose the Friendly Arm could be considered to have noble rooms, too.

I'm not familiar enough with the inns in BG itself to give any judgment.
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Echon on March 13, 2005, 05:22:39 PM
I believe the only tavern in Baldur's Gate with royal rooms is Three Old Kegs. Helm and Cloak has noble rooms, Blade and Stars has merchant rooms I believe and both The Elfsong Tavern and The Blushing Mermaid have no rooms at all.

-Echon
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Ghreyfain on March 13, 2005, 05:27:19 PM
The Blushing Mermaid has the Undercellar, though.  Can you get rooms there?  There's also a bunch of random little inns, which I think by default should be given peasant and merchant rooms, unless you want to go through them all and analyse 'em.
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Echon on March 13, 2005, 05:33:54 PM
You cannot rent rooms in the Undercellar but one could assume that rooms rented in the Blushing Mermaid are from down below. I do not know if the two places are connected in that way, though. I think I did evaluate every tavern I ran across, which is fairly easy when I am having a look at the area anyway, but I am sure none of them have rooms better than merchant.

-Echon
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Ghreyfain on March 13, 2005, 05:52:04 PM
Right.  I was just thinking that since you didn't mention, for instance, the Keexie Tavern or whatever it was, that you hadn't factored them into the equation.
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: NiGHTMARE on March 13, 2005, 06:38:34 PM
I'm not sure how it is in pnp, but the in-game Elfsong certainly has rooms... unless I've been looking at the wrong area file for the past few months (I have Alora staying here in her upcoming BG1 NPC quest) ;).
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Gay Lord on March 13, 2005, 09:08:28 PM
The Elfsong itself is spacious, but none of the rented rooms really are.  The Elfsong is on the first map the party sees when entering the city.  It's where elminster meets them, where sorcerous sundries and the thieves guild is, etc.  The second floor, where the rooms are, is where the guy is who's blackmailing the noblewoman by the palace, has some banquet-like tables, and where a merchant can be found in the west side who shares the inventory list with the guy from the fair.
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Echon on March 14, 2005, 01:52:21 AM
The Elfsong does have a couple of rooms but it does not contain a single bed. :)

-Echon
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Gay Lord on March 14, 2005, 07:36:22 AM
!!!
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Ghreyfain on March 14, 2005, 03:05:29 PM
I recall reading in the manual that it was used as a meeting place for all sorts of shady types, so the rooms are all pretty much just for that, maybe?
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Echon on March 14, 2005, 03:36:57 PM
That is true. In P&P the rooms in the Elfsong can be rented by the candle for these types of meetings. BioWare were generally very true to the P&P sources on Baldur's Gate and its contents. Most, if not all, of the descriptions of the taverns and inns have been copied and pasted.

-Echon
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: NiGHTMARE on March 14, 2005, 05:11:01 PM
Heh, dunno how I never noticed there's no beds ::).  Ah well, I've switched to the nameless inn in SE Baldur's Gate instead.

BTW isn't there supposed to be a stuffed baby beholder above the Elfsong's fireplace? In fact, there's an idea for a quest - someone pinched it, go get it back ;).
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Echon on March 14, 2005, 05:46:14 PM
Yes, Volo mentions one hanging above the bar.

-Echon
Title: Re: What annoyed you when playing Baldur's Gate?
Post by: Salk on March 16, 2005, 11:29:22 PM
If you want to see that stuffed beholder, you will have to play Baldur's Gate - Dark Alliance on the PSX2!  ;D