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BG1 Completed Mods => BG1Tutu General => BG1Tutu Bugs and Support => Topic started by: SimDing0™ on June 15, 2004, 07:04:51 PM

Title: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: SimDing0™ on June 15, 2004, 07:04:51 PM
We had to make some executive decisions on random spawns when deciding how many monsters should spawn, because in BG2 it isn't keyed to party-size.

1) Early monsters, like diseased gibberlings and regular wolves, should show up in small groups, because that's when a level 1 character needs things to be easy.

2) Tougher monsters are generally encountered later on, so we were fairly certain you'd have a full party by that time.  We decided larger groups were better.

Some things to note is that Ghrey didn't check ALL the .cre files as they matched up with the entries in the .2da, so if he decided we'd spawn 1 vampire wolf per random encounter, he may have written down 1 for, say, dire wolves.  Then in the dire wolf area he could've written 3 and you'd wind up with quite a tough battle in that case.  This is just an example, but if you see anything that is REALLY out of whack--10 ettercaps, for instance, or 2 tasloi--report it and we'll see what we can do.

A future version of the fixpack will ensure that the monster spawns are more balanced and faithful to BG1. However, for now, this is how it works.
Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: Ieldra on September 13, 2004, 09:00:08 AM
If those are the rules, then something strange happened to me:

I encountered groups of 10+ Gibberlings and two Dread Wolves on the first map E of Candlekeep, with a L1 character. I have also been ambushed by about 10 bandits with a L2 character between the Map N of Beregost and the Friendly Arm Inn.

Apart from that, the frequent appearance of 10+ low level enemies regardless of party level is quite annoying. For instance, with a L6 or L7 party, I met two groups of 10+ Gibberlings, killed them, spent about 30 seconds away from that spawn point, came back and found another two groups of 10+ Gibberlings waiting right on the not yet decayed corpses of the previous ones. IIRC, that was on the map far E of Nashkel or E of Nashkel. In the original BG1 I also met the same types occasionally, but neither were groups that size encountered quite as often, nor was it always Gibberlings, Xvarts or Tasloi. You know, I like the occasional Fireball-fodder, but this is too much. It's getting boring. Give me a few tougher enemies, please. I never meet 10 Dread Wolves, for instance, although I think a L7 party with good equipment can handle them easily.


Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: SimDing0™ on September 13, 2004, 10:08:18 AM
There are rumours that the current implementation is pretty terrible, yes. Bear with us while we get the BG1 spawning restored. It's slow and painful. :)
Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: Ieldra on September 14, 2004, 03:03:11 AM
Slow and painful? Does that mean that you have to adjust every spawn point manually, and set the parameters for the "monster generator" so that the "usual" party crossing that area will get an acceptable type of combat? That does sound like a lot of tedious testing - how many spawn points are there in BG1?
Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: icelus on September 14, 2004, 11:04:39 AM
Slow and painful? Does that mean that you have to adjust every spawn point manually, and set the parameters for the "monster generator" so that the "usual" party crossing that area will get an acceptable type of combat? That does sound like a lot of tedious testing - how many spawn points are there in BG1?
In a nutshell, yup... that's about right.  I'm not sure how many spawn points there are, but there's a bunch.  :(
Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: Paragon on November 03, 2004, 05:23:24 AM
What's the status of this spawn-fix?

I would LOVE to play BG1 using the enhanced graphics and all, but the constant spawning of large groups is killing my fun. Is there anyway to use the BG1 files for spawning only, until a new fixpack is ready?
Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: Echon on November 03, 2004, 05:32:08 AM
Tutu uses the same spawn points as BG does. The BG2 engine handles them differently, though, which results in the massive spawns.

-Echon
Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: Paragon on November 03, 2004, 12:36:35 PM
Okay, thanks for the reply...

But what is the status of this bugfix? When can we expect it to be up.

TIA.
Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: underdog on January 25, 2005, 09:28:22 AM
That explains the 14 bandits with bows, in a random encounter going between areas, between Nashkel, and Bergost, with level 1 and 2 characters, lost one character before I got the first shot off. :o

Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: drosketer on January 25, 2005, 10:26:30 AM
Maybe it's just me, but I've found the spawned challenges refreshing (with a low level party)...   seem to be pulling a lot of the "brave, brave Sir Robin" thing   ;) , but at least it forces you to think and potentially use some different tactics.
Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: underdog on January 25, 2005, 01:15:13 PM
Theres not much tactics with the one I posted, 14 bandits with bows, that 1-6 per bow, 14-84 points per round they can deal out, the strongest guy had 16 points, 1 down before I even got a shot off, 3 more down after the first round of return fire from me, 1 of them down 13 more to go, 2 of my guys left. Maybe it's just me, but theres not much tactics that can get you out of that that I can think of.
If it's handheld weapons, I have beat that kind of mess, they start going after one guy have him run, let the ranged ones pick them off, you may have to keep running and taking potshots at them, but you will eventually whittle them down.
Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: drosketer on January 25, 2005, 02:19:37 PM
Yeah, not much you can do there without the possibility of major hurting coming your way... especially since in some transition areas they form up all around the party (Yep, it's an ambush alright!).  I'd either:
a) Engage them (if I thought I stood a chance of anyone making it out alive - doesn't sound like it here...   :P ).  A useful spell (if anyone has it at this point) is horror / sleep.  Does wonders for groups like that.
b) Run away (realizing that not everyone may make it).  Again, sleep/horror can open up a viable escape corridor.
c) Reload the auto-save the occurred as you left the previous area.

For me, it's been fun trying to stay alive in some of the massive spawn encounters (no abundance of healing potions like before TuTu!).  I've also noticed there is a lot more resting happening than normal.   :)

edit: clarified one of the options...
Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: underdog on January 26, 2005, 09:20:50 AM
a) Engage them (if I thought I stood a chance of anyone making it out alive - doesn't sound like it here...   Tongue ).  A useful spell (if anyone has it at this point) is horror / sleep.  Does wonders for groups like that.

Not yet, spells are a little hard to cmoe by yet, Dynahair got 2nd level spells, and couldn't memorize any,
as i hadn't found any to write yet. :(


c) Reload the auto-save the occurred as you left the previous area.
Yep thats what I did.

For me, it's been fun trying to stay alive in some of the massive spawn encounters (no abundance of healing potions like before TuTu!).  I've also noticed there is a lot more resting happening than normal.

I have survived the 10-15 skeleton/ghoul/hobgoblin mess but the massive bandit archer, even 10 kobold archers
will wipe you out fairly quickly, it's the fact that they can hit you immediatly and constantly form a distance that wipes you out, rather then the other way around.
And healing potions are more valuable ten gold, I'm running around with 5-7K gold most of the tiime,
but little or no potions, cleaned the temples out already.
Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: drosketer on January 26, 2005, 12:14:56 PM
I think that the wizard at High Hedge(?) sells all manner of wizard scrolls...  might be worth a trip.  As for amusing encounters - my level 1 party ran into a Gibberling ambush in a transition area.  Then their pet basilisk showed up  :o ... I suspect that more than one character had skid marks after that one (yeah, they fled.. and all amazingly survived).   ;D
Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: Testlund on March 10, 2005, 08:35:25 PM
Can someone tell me how to open the CLUAconsole and what function to use to kill enemies with the mouse pointer? These respawnings makes the game unplayable!  >:(
Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: Ghreyfain on March 10, 2005, 08:42:53 PM
Open baldur.ini.

Add, under [Game Options]:
Cheats=1

In-game, hit ctrl+space, and type:
CLUAConsole:EnableCheatKeys()

Hold your mouse cursor over a bad guy, and hit ctrl+y.
Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: Testlund on March 10, 2005, 08:55:12 PM
Thanks! Are you working on fixing this issue sometime?
Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: Ghreyfain on March 10, 2005, 09:13:17 PM
You mean to say you haven't noticed me working my ass off to get things fixed?  I've released like three versions in about four days!
Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: Testlund on March 10, 2005, 11:36:35 PM
I'm not sure what you're working on. The nastiest bug is the degreenifier in my opinion, but you don't seem to have done anything about that in the last 3 versions.
Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: icelus on March 11, 2005, 12:27:50 AM
I think I may have to call in the chihuahuas.
Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: SimDing0™ on March 11, 2005, 02:04:05 AM
I'm not sure what you're working on. The nastiest bug is the degreenifier in my opinion, but you don't seem to have done anything about that in the last 3 versions.
Man. You've reported the bug. If you keep spamming it on every thread then I'll just start deleting your posts, because it's getting distracting. If you have a problem with our support, start a single thread about it and keep your posts confined there. Clear?
Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: Testlund on March 11, 2005, 07:24:23 AM
Ok. I'm sorry. But that issue DOES spread over several threads, but I wont talk about it again. Ok. About the spawning issue... I have a suggestion. What about making the creatures only respawn if you leave the area and come back again, not by just walking out of sight? Maybe that could be implemented in the future?
Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: Silk on March 11, 2005, 03:46:39 PM
Just a comment for Testlund ... You seem to expect people to be around to answer your questions AND be working on bugfixes at the same time.  Isn't that a little unrealistic and selfish?  Okay, you're having problems with Tutu monster spawning - get back into the game and work out some tactics.

(Moderators, sorry if this is out of order, I just woke up and I'm sometimes cranky in the mornings.)
Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: Testlund on March 11, 2005, 04:19:14 PM
I don't expect any such thing! You missunderstand me. I just thought it was a little odd that a serious bug discovered in Tutufix v10 was still there in version v12. That's all.
Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: SimDing0™ on March 11, 2005, 04:33:25 PM
We're doing our best to fix it, but it's pretty tricky given that we're having to use a tool that wasn't even designed for Tutu. I'm sorry for any inconvenience.
Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: Ghreyfain on March 11, 2005, 05:14:49 PM
v10 through 12 have all just been updates for one bug, namely, the green-water.  No other bugs have been fixed in that time.
Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: Salk on March 12, 2005, 12:46:38 AM
Couldn't the same version (10) be pulled and released again when the bug was finally destroyed instead of releasing three different versions ?  :)
Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: Ghreyfain on March 12, 2005, 10:13:27 AM
Because there might be people with a broken version of v10 floating around, and they'd be reporting the bug while I tell them that v10 works.  When they're then told to download v10, they'd say they have it.  Ah, but do they have v10-c, or v10-e?  The mess that follows is like all the various BP patches, and I don't want that.
Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: Salk on March 12, 2005, 03:37:46 PM
Clear as mountain fresh water!  ;)
Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: Grey Acumen on April 15, 2005, 08:38:14 AM
Ok. I'm sorry. But that issue DOES spread over several threads, but I wont talk about it again. Ok. About the spawning issue... I have a suggestion. What about making the creatures only respawn if you leave the area and come back again, not by just walking out of sight? Maybe that could be implemented in the future?
Weird, I actually suggested this myself a while back...

Actually though, I just played all the way through using TUTUfix 13, and I must say thatI highly approve of the monster spawns as they are now... I only played on normal difficulty, but everything went quite smoothly... I had a teensy bit of difficulty getting to candlekeep, but I also didn't have Montaron and Xzar hanging around, so that's to be expected... The only thing that concerned me was the one Xvart village where all the xvarts continually respawned the moment my back was turned, but I think I actually like it that way...
Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: Ghreyfain on April 15, 2005, 11:42:15 PM
It's not a question of us wanting to do it or not, it's a question of spawn points in general being so full of unknowns that we don't know how to get them to behave as we want.
Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: Tokkan on April 23, 2005, 05:33:47 AM
I actually like the monster spawning bug  :-X

It gives the Sword Coast a feeling of chaos.  Forget random one or two bandits walking about in forests, the Sword Coast needs your help, as hordes bandits with their wolven pets are running around.
Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: SimDing0™ on April 23, 2005, 05:47:18 AM
Yes, well. Maybe if there's enough demand, we can install an optional "Monster Spawns Remain Broken" component. Default behavior will be the fixed version, however.
Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: Salk on April 23, 2005, 08:09:14 AM
Personally I am longing for SimDing0's fixed version of the respawning!!  ;D
Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: Roana on April 25, 2005, 11:18:14 AM
Well, I managed now to get a good fix for the Spawns, with which the Spawns seemed to be as they were in BG1 original game.

I had to betray the program for this fix, but it work now as I mentioned.

Now I have to play through the game, to verify a few of the Unknowns, I have have changed on a very few places with seldom values (by looking and comparing, what the original progammers have set there in BG2).

If I am ready to play through, I will write in the IESDP-Forum, what I have find out about the Spawnpoints.

And after this, of course, I will rewrite my tp2 (which will contain other fixes too, such as a functionable charm-dialog-fix, a working fix, which will give the mainchar the original biographie, a more userfriendly green-water-fix for players with not much space on their computer (with an included, but untested uninstall function, that *should* work, if the Chitin.key was not changed after installing this fix), a little sound fix for the first spoken lines for some NPCs (such as Shoal), etc...) in a way, that all of the Tutu-players, who don't want either too much nor too less Spawns, can install and use it, if they want to give it a try :)

But expect this all not too soon, as I have to write a little homepage for this too, with a readme and an option to download these fixes :)

Have Fun

Roana



Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: Salk on April 25, 2005, 12:42:58 PM
Roana...J*u*s*t G*r*e*a*t!! I am impatiently waiting for your fixes! Congratulations for a very good job well done! If you have a couple of minutes sometimes, you have mail from me!  ;) Thanks!
Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: Arkan on August 07, 2005, 10:35:18 PM
The large groups of spawns were difficult, but it only happened with creatures/enemies you'd expect large groups from: Bandits, gibberlings, xvarts, etc. It added a challenge element to the very early part of the game. Once you get out of Nashkel, though, it's easy experience.
Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: Darvulia on January 16, 2006, 12:56:35 AM
What's the status on this fix? I'm not experiencing quite as horrible problems as some people in this thread, but I've had some horror moments early on with massive bandit attacks. (Though I have to admit it's kinda amusing when they -all- start chanting "I kicked him in the head until he was dead, hahah!")
Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: Salk on January 16, 2006, 01:29:45 AM
Darvulia,

Roana is unfortunately not modding regularly and doesn't actually come here often. She fixes stuff mostly for her own benefit although it's not impossible to see her comeback here sometimes. It's a shame, since she'd have so much to share and give to the community...

However, spawns are fixed in TuTu 6 Beta although other problems (chapter globals) arise if you decide to got for it. I am waiting for the Merger...  ;D
Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: Darvulia on January 16, 2006, 01:52:41 AM
Chapter globals? What they?  ??? ;D Sorry, I'm a total idiot/newbie.

As for the Great Merge, spawns are fixed in BGT?
Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: Gal on January 18, 2006, 07:22:57 AM
Nope. Only in v6/v16b of TuTU.
Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: Uranium - 235 on February 23, 2006, 02:08:52 AM
Nothing pissed me off more then walking down a road, stopping, turning around and an entire army of what-have-you's has sprung up behind me, so I turn around the other way and there's ANOTHER armor directly in FRONT of me.

The horrible, horrible BG1 'respawning' seems to have actually gotten WORSE with BGTutu. As in, it was annoying as HELL before, but now it happens SO OFTEN that it's practically unbearable.

I killed a bunch of enemies, moved on a little bit. Because I'm OCD about treasure, I clicked back on a bag of loot I missed and my main character, a mage, runs back and grabs the baggie. I move him back to my party and somehow a legion of orgrillions has popped up and turns me to paste.

I wouldn't even say that the encounters are HARD, per se. I had some trouble in the area just after Candlekeep where Xzar, Montaron, Imoen, and myself had to face down wave after wave of Xvarts, but once I grabbed Ajantis and Kivan, things got a lot easier.

There's just way too many.

Frankly, I'd like to see an option to either utterly neuter this feature, if not remove it completely.
Title: Re: Monster spawns seeming strange?
Post by: Salk on February 23, 2006, 07:36:19 AM
Uranium - 235,

on my suggestion, Ascension64, author of BGT-WeiDU among the others, will be realeasing in his next BGT Tweaks version, a component that will completely eliminate spawns in game. There will be only those that, rightly so, might arise while travelling. You might be interested in that.