Pocket Plane Group
Friends and Neighbors => Weimer Republic (WeiDU.org) => Solaufein => Topic started by: Riscorn on April 10, 2003, 05:32:48 PM
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Wow. Wes, you done good. Clap everyone!
*half-hearted clapping from room*
CLAP BETTER YOU SONS OF MOTHERS OR I'M GONNA STEAL ALL YOUR DISC 2's!!!
*hearty round of applause*
Thats better. He really is a cool charicter, and the dialog is cool. Deep phioshophical discussions. Poetry. Mispronunciations of Gods names. And a really strong charater with a tough battle. Yup, Sola rocks.
One thing. Could a nice, sweet, non-Viconia version of Sola be made. Like a slightly tougher Aerie, but a drow? I dont like Viconia, too much of a biatch for me, and Jaheira is just too damn ugly. And old. That leaves Aerie, and whilst she has a nice voice, which translates well to IWD2, she isnt very strong. She's a wimp. But a nice, strong and yet honest female drow, maybe someone Sola knows of, and can vouch for, would be nice.
Just an idea.
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I gotta agree, for the first comment, it's the perfect mod,
*claps loudly, louder than all the others*
Touch my disc 2 and die...
Question, what do you think of...fluffy pink vorpal bunnies?
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Oh... yes!! It would be so good to have a joinable priestess of Eilistraee available!
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*Withdrawn*
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I could see some great quests for a priestess of Eilistraee, involving mostly Fluffy pink vorpal bunnies, a lovable, yet deranged vampiress and a lot of other silliness!
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I could see some great quests for a priestess of Eilistraee, involving mostly Fluffy pink vorpal bunnies, a lovable, yet deranged vampiress and a lot of other silliness!
I rearrange my party very often for reasons far less impressing than the appearance of a pink fluffy vorpal bunny, a female priestess of Eilistraee or any form of Vampiress!!!
Really, I have no idea why Avatarofinsolence is making fun of me.
And I'm not gay, either!
Ah.. I suppose I'm late at clapping hands... so I'll do it louder!
**CLAPS CLAPS CLAPS CLAPS*
***CLAPS CLAPS CLAPS CLAPS**
*****CLAPS CLAPS CLAPS CLAPS****
(hey, weren't we supposed to clap hands about Sola in 2001 or something like so... ?)
Bah, I'll go on clapping until I drop dead or someone notices that's just a permanet illusion.
(Bows and leaves scene, Misleaded and Protected:Divination)
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Don't take it to heart serje, it was meant only as a jest. Obviously it flopped, so I withdraw my comment.
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I could see some great quests for a priestess of Eilistraee, involving mostly Fluffy pink vorpal bunnies, a lovable, yet deranged vampiress and a lot of other silliness!
I rearrange my party very often for reasons far less impressing than the appearance of a pink fluffy vorpal bunny, a female priestess of Eilistraee or any form of Vampiress!!!
Really, I have no idea why Avatarofinsolence is making fun of me.
And I'm not gay, either!
Ah.. I suppose I'm late at clapping hands... so I'll do it louder!
**CLAPS CLAPS CLAPS CLAPS*
***CLAPS CLAPS CLAPS CLAPS**
*****CLAPS CLAPS CLAPS CLAPS****
(hey, weren't we supposed to clap hands about Sola in 2001 or something like so... ?)
Bah, I'll go on clapping until I drop dead or someone notices that's just a permanet illusion.
(Bows and leaves scene, Misleaded and Protected:Divination)
Whats wrong with deranged vampiresses?
*feels vaguely insulted*
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"Whats wrong with deranged vampiresses?"
absolutely nothing is wrong with deranged vamps...no more so than deranged kensai sorcerors, or paw waving kittens...or psychotic bunnies...
i think sola is cool, but i get the ickys the few times i tried out the romance...but he always is in my party because he is so useful and his commentary to the rest of the party is pretty cool....and of course i love the extra battles the mod comes with....and fighter mages are a seriously fun class to play with...
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Sola is a great fighter,but he would be alot better if he wasn't bisexual.I mean i am over here trying to get with Viconia and other underdark hotties and i got this new dude trying to get in my pants!I understand that he is trying to find the surfacer within him in all but does that mean that he has to do it by way of my man toy?Ok so i kissed him once after the battle with the revenge spiders and that one biatch,does that make me gay?Dont get me wrong i was flattered but im just not ready to make that next step.So what we need in the future is a Sola mod for male players.Instead of walks in the moonlight maybe have armwrestling matches are something.You now something not so gay.I'm afraid if i kiss him again that i will have to take that black skinned brother to bed and you know what they say"Once you have black you never go back"so...........little help here.
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I'm really not sure how to respond to this.
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neither do I...
*shakes her head and sits at a table to sulk*
Nobody likes deranged vampiresses, except me and UU...
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I think you need a Korgan romance Darias......
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Darias is a bit on the troll-y side.
However, I have to admit that I dare someone to write up an arm-wrestling sequence for Solaufein and see if Wes implements it. :)
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Muhahahahaha just a little jest at ole Sola there.No but for real.I think he is a great NPC he just needs to know the differance between boys and girls.I wrote that post expecting to get flame by someone who thought i was being seriuos.Anyway,other than him being bi i think he is cool as chit!
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Don't take it to heart serje, it was meant only as a jest. Obviously it flopped, so I withdraw my comment.
No offense taken at all Avatar, we were just joking and joking is good! ;)
... and Vampiresses are good, too.
My enthusiasm about priestesses of Eilistraee was not meant to diminish the well-known merits of vampiresses in any way!
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Too late, started sulking...
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I have to say that this is turning intresting. Compliments to wes overall though.
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*sulk*
Maybe I should create my own mod...
*sulk*
Don't know how...
*sulk*
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Go ahead, might be interesting...!
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Too late, started sulking...
Oh my...
I've nothing against pink fluffy vorpal bunnyes either, really! :unsure:
(Don't know what I've done wrong exactly, but I think I'll leave the area before causing further damage...)
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this could get interesting...
lets see, what would vampy want to write up in a mod...
fluffy pink fuzzy wuzzy vorpal bunnies (duh!!!)
pc and korgan arm wrestling with the last pint of beer in amn as the prize...
the xyar romance component...optional install....
the holy hand grenade of antioch, and a bunch of grown npcs pretending to ride around in invisible horsies clapping coconut shells....
the elven vampire kit option, including valen like charm abilities, cool vampire armor and weapons, and your own fully customizable coffin...like the customizable houses in the sims....
the trojan bunny component...did you know if you go into one of the doors in nalia's keep, (in the courtyard) you can see fully drawn out catapults and siege engines?? this component would allow you to load a catapult with the trojan bunny from monty python and the holy grail, and launch it at your enemies....squishing them...
in spellhold, all the cells are full of deranged vampiressess...who go around muttering things like...
"my coffin is prettier than your coffin"
"are my fangs white? can i borrow your bottle of simply white fangs?"
"anybody wanna order in pizza? with extra garlic???" "ewww!!!!" "are you crazy carol???" "even undead she is a ditzy cheerleader"
"lets go to the tanning salon! my complexion is simply too pale..." "idiot..." "its suppose to be pale, you're dead!!!"
:lol: :D :P
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LMFAO!
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*looks at it for a second*
Oh my god...
IT'S FANTASTIC, I JUST LOVE IT!!!
*completely forgets about sulking*
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How very scary.
I prefer neon green fluffy bunny's, carrying +5 longswords, and who are REALLY angry about the carrot shortage. And they are friends with phsyco guina pigs, who have +4 axes and are part of the Salvation Army's militant wing.
But its all good. :lol:
ANYWAY.
The female Sola would be cool, so I'm gonna learn how to make mods, then I'm gonna make one, with the option of LESBIANISM as well as straight romance, and give it to my friends.
And any vampire, human, dwarf, elf, orc or bunny is classed as my friend.
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Wait a minute -- female Sola? That's even better than a female *equivalent* to Sola. Solves all the "hey, I'm not gay" problems right off the bat. You could do it in so many different ways:
Sola: "Say, [CHARNAME], are you into butter-meltingly hot same-sex sex?"
PC: "Ick! Look, I like you, Sola, but not in *that* way. Not that there's anything *wrong* with that..."
Sola: "I see. Eilistraee, grant me your blessing!"
Eilistraee: "Again?"
Sola: "Last time, I promise."
Eilistraee: "Awww, my cute little fuzzy wuzzy. I never could say no to you. Write me a poem, will ya?"
Sola: "Yes, yes."
Eilistraee: Casts Gender Bender: Sola
Sola: Changes Gender
Sola: "Oh, how doth my outlook change/With shifts in body mass and weight/And various appendages/A world bewildering and strange!/Would I not know such w..."
PC: "Oh, shut up and kiss me."
Or if that's not your thing, how about Sola's twin sister? Always teasing him with his poetry, and their common drow heritage. Sort of a drow-Imoen. Speaking of which, she should make lots of allusions to what Imoen did and didn't do in the drow city. :-) The potential for various romance triangles... quadrangles... polygons in general...is simply staggering.
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Funny :-)
Anyway, I just read the bit about the "mispronounciation" of gods names. To me, the way Sola pronounces "Eilistraee" sounds strangely appropriate. My impression is that he got it right and everyone else is wrong. Has anyone else got that impression?
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I think I’m one of the few that supports and could possibly see a reason why Solaufein is bisexual. If you treated like crap by the opposite sex that it becomes a predominate part of the culture, of course you're going to dislike and distrust that gender.
While I believe most homosexual/bisexuals are genetically that way, in drow society most cases would be psychological due to the fact a homosexual relationship is the ONLY way for a male drow to have an equal relationship that's pleasurable for both parties. And by that same note, I’m sure female drow would enjoy a homosexual relationship too. I’m hardly saying that the relationships would be ‘loving’ but it would be equal.
*hides!*
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I think I’m one of the few that supports and could possibly see a reason why Solaufein is bisexual. If you treated like crap by the opposite sex that it becomes a predominate part of the culture, of course you're going to dislike and distrust that gender.
Yet Solaufein treats a male PC exactly the same way he treats a female PC. If what you're saying applies (in that it is "why" he goes both ways aside from "he just does" or "he prefers keeping his options open" or whatever) I would expect his treatment of a female PC to be substantially different.
Typical "Wes likes writing content a subset of the player base will see less than he likes writing content all of them will see" disclaimer applies, though, as the REAL reason. :)
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Its a simple, yet sort of unfortunate fact that most of the romancers in the BG2 world are men. Its a same, I suppose, but most of these men are straight. I'm a staight man myself (hello, laydeez) and I can safely vouch that the Sola romance, whilst it has a few entertaining points, is a little to .... erm.... oh yeah, gay for my tastes. I'm sure many will agree.
A Sola twin? Good idea. Make her cute, funny, witty, strong and mockingly philoshopical (dark sarcasm and plenty of it) and its a great, really great idea.
Anyway.
Dont hide. We wont hurt you. For at least another hour.
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I think I’m one of the few that supports and could possibly see a reason why Solaufein is bisexual. If you treated like crap by the opposite sex that it becomes a predominate part of the culture, of course you're going to dislike and distrust that gender.
While I believe most homosexual/bisexuals are genetically that way, in drow society most cases would be psychological due to the fact a homosexual relationship is the ONLY way for a male drow to have an equal relationship that's pleasurable for both parties. And by that same note, I’m sure female drow would enjoy a homosexual relationship too. I’m hardly saying that the relationships would be ‘loving’ but it would be equal.
*hides!*
Despite what his former love, who happened to be a woman by the way, did to him, Solaufein - the real Solaufein loved her. That's the beauty of it.
If you subscribe to the theory that no one can change their sexuality, straight, gay or bisexual, then it applies here too. Solaufein loved a woman within a society that despises men. Even still, the male warrior/servant class still seek female mates, and not just for status.
I've known straight women in real life who wished they were gay due to failed relationships with guys, and yet they continue to search for Mr right. Being hated by the opposite sex won't turn a person gay unless they already are.
Anyway, how much does anyone here know about Drow culture? I'm seeing far too many assumptions.
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This is a little too deep.... I just wanted to have a sexy female drow.... Is that too much to ask?
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What, Viconia not sexy enough for you?
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Sure, but she dumps you at the end of the relationship, NO MATTER WHAT!!! And that just sucks.
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@Riscorn: that sounds as if you didn't know that the Viconia romance picks up again in TOB if you keep her in your party in SOA...
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When I first heard of Sola's "equal opportunity" loveplay, I thought that maybe all drow were bisexual but I guess Viconia doesn't fit that assumption. Since Sola doesn't make any mention of his sexual orientation being a problem, I guess I assumed that it wasn't ( in drow society at least.) Maybe someone who knows more about the drow could comment.
As a gay man playing these games, I have to say that Sola is pretty great. Most of the BG content is geared towards straight males (it's their market, I don't blame them) so it's nice to get a bit that's more relevant to me. If only for the fact that I don't have to listen to Aerie's incessant whining and pathological dependency.
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Maybe someone who knows more about the drow could comment.
As a gay man playing these games, I have to say that Sola is pretty great.
The drow cultural attitude toward homosexuality is never touched in any official material, tmk. Considering the extent Lolth goes to to make sure none of her worshipers can ever have a healthy relationship (apart from the gender stratification, she demands any female who shows signs of caring for a mate sacrifice that drow immediately), I would honestly expect drow society to be more vehemently homophobic than the most extreme fundamentalist Christians, but that's a matter of interpretation.
Solaufein is one thing--he's a worshiper of Elistraee--but would you really want to be told that the most viciously evil society in Faerun, as a culture, has the most positive view of homosexuality? I would find that message rather offensive, personally.
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Maybe someone who knows more about the drow could comment.
As a gay man playing these games, I have to say that Sola is pretty great.
The drow cultural attitude toward homosexuality is never touched in any official material, tmk. Considering the extent Lolth goes to to make sure none of her worshipers can ever have a healthy relationship (apart from the gender stratification, she demands any female who shows signs of caring for a mate sacrifice that drow immediately), I would honestly expect drow society to be more vehemently homophobic than the most extreme fundamentalist Christians, but that's a matter of interpretation.
Solaufein is one thing--he's a worshiper of Elistraee--but would you really want to be told that the most viciously evil society in Faerun, as a culture, has the most positive view of homosexuality? I would find that message rather offensive, personally.
What I don't like is how people presume others are bisexual if a sexuality isn't clarified. No offense anyone, but that's just presumptuous.
To presume that all Drow are bisexual because the person doing the presuming thinks he/she is more enlightened than the rest of us when doing so, or because we don't know for sure, is wrong.
Cultures in this fantasy setting would no doubt reflect our own. Now that's a fair assumption. People will disagree, but the Drow are indeed prolific breeders.
I didn't like Weimer's reinvented Solaufein because his character has been warped and rendered inconsistent with his real counterpart.
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Mispronunciations of Gods names.
Solaufein's pronounciation of the Big E comes from a sourcebook somewhere, but it may be outdated. Without a true phonetic alphabet involved, it's hard to tell if two different "pronounciation spellings" are really different.
but i get the ickys the few times i tried out the romance
I can sympathize with you here for a bit, because I used to "get the ickys" in such contexts myself. However, personal experience leads me to believe that it's something you can control with a bit of thought and reflection. I'm not suggesting that you can make yourself find members of your own sex attractive. But I am suggesting that you can make yourself not find them repulsive and "ick-inducing".
I think he is a great NPC he just needs to know the differance between boys and girls.
I posit that aside from a few quantifiable differences (e.g., child-bearing, body build, mental rotation speeds, etc.) most of these "differences" are social/environmental rather than innate/genetic. The Solaufein mod is largely about interactions. I see no non-environmental reasons why any of the Solaufein interactions (especially given his "understated" presentation) should be gender-specific. Canon BG2 (and AD&D post 1st-edition) assigns males and femals the same stats, classes and potentials. Here's a quote from the character creation screen:
Females of the Realms can excel in any area they wish, and are easily the equals of their male counterparts in every skill or respect.
One of those "respects" is "the regard of Solaufein". The upshot is that while there are gender differences, they are (1) not really relevant for the game and (2) not that great if you step back a bit.
Wait a minute -- female Sola?
R, that was hilarious. Welcome to the Sola fandom page.
Yet Solaufein treats a male PC exactly the same way he treats a female PC. If what you're saying applies (in that it is "why" he goes both ways aside from "he just does" or "he prefers keeping his options open" or whatever) I would expect his treatment of a female PC to be substantially different.
Good point.
Typical "Wes likes writing content a subset of the player base will see less than he likes writing content all of them will see" disclaimer applies, though, as the REAL reason.
Good point.
I've known straight women in real life who wished they were gay due to failed relationships with guys, and yet they continue to search for Mr right. Being hated by the opposite sex won't turn a person gay unless they already are.
Good point.
I didn't like Weimer's reinvented Solaufein because his character has been warped and rendered inconsistent with his real counterpart.
"Real"? The next time I encounter Solaufein in the real world I'll be sure to ask him what he really believes. :-) More seriously, some people put "the game as originally presented" as a sort of canonical truth and highest goal. I put fun as the ultimate goal.
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I am a gay player and until Sola was created I always had to cheat Anomen to get the possibility to have some kind of relationship in BG2. I really don't understand all these straight people (mostly male players!), which have problems with a bisexual npc. Nobody has to have a relationship with him, there is just the possibility not an obligation, contrary to all the gay player who have to play a straight character in the original game (except they start cheating...!)
Greetings from Germany
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I am a gay player and until Sola was created I always had to cheat Anomen to get the possibility to have some kind of relationship in BG2.
I am sorry for you. I am so very, very sorry. I didn't even have anything to do with the creation or incorporation of Anomen, and I still feel guilt by proxy. Nobody should be forced through the Anomen romance, no matter their gender, sexual orientation or animal companion race.
OK, so I'm exaggerating a little. But just a little. I saw it once, and that was more than enough. Even the Aerie romance was more palatable than Anomen's. And that's a darn shame, because Anomen's story had so much more room for character development that it's truly a crime how the writers threw it away. They forced every character I ever created to say the only option that came even close to good roleplaying: "You're an idiot, Anomen."
And to think that some players actually have to cheat this in to get any sort of romance. Wes may have done the world a bigger favor than I could ever have imagined.
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What I don't like is how people presume others are bisexual if a sexuality isn't clarified. No offense anyone, but that's just presumptuous.
To presume that all Drow are bisexual because the person doing the presuming thinks he/she is more enlightened than the rest of us when doing so, or because we don't know for sure, is wrong.
Hmmm, I was trying to be clear about my ignorance on the subject. I said that I'd "originally thought" but later realized it didn't fit with Viconia's behavior. I certainly never meant to imply that I was "more enlightened" than anyone else. Not sure how that came across.
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I am sorry for you. I am so very, very sorry. I didn't even have anything to do with the creation or incorporation of Anomen, and I still feel guilt by proxy. Nobody should be forced through the Anomen romance, no matter their gender, sexual orientation or animal companion race.
Your sympathy is very much appreciated. Really. The one time I tried the "cheating with Anomen" strategy, it was pretty degrading.
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Personally, I don't see why sexuality is a big deal, especially not in this context. This is RP, and for those who have never gotten into deep tabletop sessions, sometimes your character says or does things you would never do in real life. So if you'd probably like the Sola romance if it wasn't "gay", try to RP the game as a female. Really the "ick" factor in the Sola romance was quite low as far as I'm concerned, and for the record, I'm a married straight man. As to why he's bi, who the heck knows? I could never figure out why my neighbor was gay, my ex-girlfriend was bi, or why anyone I know is straight. It's just one of those things.
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"Real"? The next time I encounter Solaufein in the real world I'll be sure to ask him what he really believes. :-) More seriously, some people put "the game as originally presented" as a sort of canonical truth and highest goal. I put fun as the ultimate goal.
I don't agree with the sudden and drastic change in character. It's as if he isn't the same person and that is in fact the truth. I prefer continuity of character, not change without plausible reason.
Another thing: the Bioware Solaufein is classed as a fighter, nothing more. His identity is one of a warrior; his improved fighter/mage class status was unwarranted IMO.
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What I don't like is how people presume others are bisexual if a sexuality isn't clarified. No offense anyone, but that's just presumptuous.
To presume that all Drow are bisexual because the person doing the presuming thinks he/she is more enlightened than the rest of us when doing so, or because we don't know for sure, is wrong.
Hmmm, I was trying to be clear about my ignorance on the subject. I said that I'd "originally thought" but later realized it didn't fit with Viconia's behavior. I certainly never meant to imply that I was "more enlightened" than anyone else. Not sure how that came across.
Sorry, I meant people in general. The Bioware Solaufein is clearly a heterosexual male, but because he didn't tell everyone that--because he didn't make his sexuality clear in unambiguous terms--people are prone to presume he's bisexual.
That conclusion is drawn far too often when it comes to video game characters.
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The Bioware Solaufein is clearly a heterosexual male, but because he didn't tell everyone that--because he didn't make his sexuality clear in unambiguous terms--people are prone to presume he's bisexual.
What? He says he and Phaere were lovers, that's all. Doesn't say if he's had another male (or other females, for that matter) as a lover. And having found out this week that an old female friend of mine--we've been friends since we were 10--is in love with another woman, after having given no previous indications aside from luckless relationships with men, I wouldn't necessarily assume anything about his sexuality.
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The Bioware Solaufein is clearly a heterosexual male, but because he didn't tell everyone that--because he didn't make his sexuality clear in unambiguous terms--people are prone to presume he's bisexual.
What? He says he and Phaere were lovers, that's all. Doesn't say if he's had another male (or other females, for that matter) as a lover. And having found out this week that an old female friend of mine--we've been friends since we were 10--is in love with another woman, after having given no previous indications aside from luckless relationships with men, I wouldn't necessarily assume anything about his sexuality.
This is exactly to kind of presumptuous thinking I'm talking about. No offense, but you cannot conclude that a person's bisexual if they haven't labelled themself heterosexual. Besides, this is a videogame character.
All we know about the Bioware Solaufein is that his former lover was a women. You can't brand him anything else unless new evidence arises. Is there any proof that he swings both ways? No. The lack of proof doesn't mean he's bisexual either.
We can't assume anything *more* about his sexuality.
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Well.
Then we can ask:
Is it possible for Sola to fall in love with a woman?
Definitely yes, as the affair with Phaere shows.
Is it possible for Sola to fall in love with a man?
Maybe. We have no supporting evidence, but also nothing to the contrary.
Summed up, this would mean:
Solaufein is either heterosexual or bisexual. Which of both is up to one's fantasy.
The only thing that is not possible is that he's purely homosexual.
I see no compelling reason why a bisexual Solaufein should not be a possible interpretation of the character. Not the only one, and maybe not the most apparent, but possible. As you say, it's a videogame character. It's up to us to flesh him out, he can't complain, and no one's going to come and tell us "the truth" - as that truth about his history and character doesn't exist. If we want to go any further than the informations that the game gives us, we *have* to make assumptions. One could say that this or that contradicts a certain information from the game, but one can't just restrict Solaufein's personality to those informations if one creates a mod that does more than repeat his dialogue lines.
That said, it is up to the player to decide. In one game, the PC is either male or female. So if you play a female character, there is no reason why she should suppose Solaufein to be attracted to men. In a certain game, only one possibility comes true, and the other one simply doesn't exist.
What I want to say: You're not forced to recruit a bisexual Solaufein.
Cas
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Your sympathy is very much appreciated. Really. The one time I tried the "cheating with Anomen" strategy, it was pretty degrading.
Any relationship with Anomen (through cheats or not) is degrading. As written, he's an abusive, arrogant and supremely selfish. Better the PC be celibate than with him.
But then, my loathing of Anomen is already well known. B)
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The Bioware Solaufein is clearly a heterosexual male, but because he didn't tell everyone that--because he didn't make his sexuality clear in unambiguous terms--people are prone to presume he's bisexual.
What? He says he and Phaere were lovers, that's all. Doesn't say if he's had another male (or other females, for that matter) as a lover. And having found out this week that an old female friend of mine--we've been friends since we were 10--is in love with another woman, after having given no previous indications aside from luckless relationships with men, I wouldn't necessarily assume anything about his sexuality.
This is exactly to kind of presumptuous thinking I'm talking about.
Presumptuous?
It's pretty hypocritical to label other people "presumptuous" immediately after making a statement as presumptuous and inaccurate as, "The Bioware Solaufein is clearly a heterosexual."
No offense, but you cannot conclude that a person's bisexual if they haven't labelled themself heterosexual.
No more and no less than you can conclude that a person's heterosexual if s/he hasn't labeled himself/herself. But the only person here attempting to label the Bioware Solaufein is you.
Besides, this is a videogame character.
All we know about the Bioware Solaufein is that his former lover was a women. You can't brand him anything else unless new evidence arises.
You can't brand him anything at all (except "not exclusively gay") until more evidence than we have arises. By implictly granting that it would be possible for new evidence to arise that would indicate Solaufein is bi, you've conceded that your initial statement--"clearly a heterosexual"--was incorrect.
Is there any proof that he swings both ways? No. The lack of proof doesn't mean he's bisexual either.
Nope. No more and no less, again, that it means he's heterosexual/exclusively female-oriented. You've fighting a straw man, "disproving" fictitious claims that Bioware Solaufein is an established bisexual and using that to insist people shouldn't say he could be anything but heterosexual.
We can't assume anything *more* about his sexuality.
Almost right. We can't assume anything about his sexuality. We can only go on what we're given--that he isn't exclusively homosexual. And the only person who has posted to this thread so far trying to assume anything is you.
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I always liked Anomen BECAUSE of his funny arrogance, which really can be taken seriously!!
His one of the characters which attitues change a lot during the game... He is (beside Jahira) much more complicated than Arie for example. I like complicated characters!
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Well.
Then we can ask:
Is it possible for Sola to fall in love with a woman?
Definitely yes, as the affair with Phaere shows.
Is it possible for Sola to fall in love with a man?
Maybe. We have no supporting evidence, but also nothing to the contrary.
Summed up, this would mean:
Solaufein is either heterosexual or bisexual. Which of both is up to one's fantasy.
The only thing that is not possible is that he's purely homosexual.
I see no compelling reason why a bisexual Solaufein should not be a possible interpretation of the character. Not the only one, and maybe not the most apparent, but possible. As you say, it's a videogame character. It's up to us to flesh him out, he can't complain, and no one's going to come and tell us "the truth" - as that truth about his history and character doesn't exist. If we want to go any further than the informations that the game gives us, we *have* to make assumptions. One could say that this or that contradicts a certain information from the game, but one can't just restrict Solaufein's personality to those informations if one creates a mod that does more than repeat his dialogue lines.
That said, it is up to the player to decide. In one game, the PC is either male or female. So if you play a female character, there is no reason why she should suppose Solaufein to be attracted to men. In a certain game, only one possibility comes true, and the other one simply doesn't exist.
What I want to say: You're not forced to recruit a bisexual Solaufein.
Cas
Thanks for keeping the discussion civil.
What I see here are people who are quick to presume that someone/anyone is bisexual if we know they like people of the opposite sex but haven't made clear/shouted out loud their heterosexuality.
So, any straight person who doesn't state beyond all interpretation that they are straight is now deemed at least bisexual. That's unfair. This line of reasoning can encompass other characters too.
All we know is that he once loved a woman. There's nothing to support any further assumptions; proof is required first and foremost, as an atheist friend of mine is always telling me.
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It's pretty hypocritical to label other people "presumptuous" immediately after making a statement as presumptuous and inaccurate as, "The Bioware Solaufein is clearly a heterosexual."
Is there anything in the game serving to prove otherwise? No.
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It's pretty hypocritical to label other people "presumptuous" immediately after making a statement as presumptuous and inaccurate as, "The Bioware Solaufein is clearly a heterosexual."
Is there anything in the game serving to prove otherwise? No.
Very well, then.
I assert, "The Bioware Solaufein is clearly a bisexual."
This statement is every bit as logically valid as yours. Is there anything in the game serving to prove otherwise? No. Of course in the real world, claims should be logically supported rather than asserted followed with "prove me wrong," but you do not appear interested in functioning on a logically valid level.
So, any straight person who doesn't state beyond all interpretation that they are straight is now deemed at least bisexual. That's unfair. This line of reasoning can encompass other characters too.
And your way, any bisexual person who doesn't state beyond all interpretation that he or she is bisexual is now deemed straight. But you somehow don't consider that unfair.
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I assert, "The Bioware Solaufein is clearly a bisexual."
This statement is every bit as logically valid as yours...
Prove it to me. The in-game dialogue only supports his heterosexuality. If there's no further proof of any further preferences, you could only logically deduce that he could be bisexual. It's possible but unproven. That's all. It doesn't mean he is, which is what you want to believe.
Where does this end though? Who else is bisexual because they never stated they were heterosexual?
And your way, any bisexual person who doesn't state beyond all interpretation that he or she is bisexual is now deemed straight. But you somehow don't consider that unfair.
Yes, that's unfair as well.
It is common to automatically regard people one meets as straight, at first, because heterosexual people constitute a majority. But yes, it is unfair, just like presuming people/characters are bisexual if they don't make their preferences clear.
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I assert, "The Bioware Solaufein is clearly a bisexual."
This statement is every bit as logically valid as yours...
Prove it to me.
Just as soon as you prove yours.
The in-game dialogue only supports his heterosexuality.
Prove, not reassert.
If there's no further proof of any further preferences, you could only logically deduce that he could be bisexual. It's possible but unproven. That's all. It doesn't mean he is, which is what you want to believe.
Me? No, I want to believe that the original Solaufein could be heterosexual or bisexual. The only person in this thread, to my knowledge, to have claimed there is proof either way is you.
Where does this end though? Who else is bisexual because they never stated they were heterosexual?
No one is an established bisexual because they never stated they were heterosexual...or an established heterosexual because they never stated they aren't, either.
Look back at your statement, will you? "The Bioware Solaufein is clearly a heterosexual."
That is presumptuous. And untrue. The Bioware Solaufein is clearly not a homosexual, but that's all we can say. Argue that WeimerSolaufein has poor continuity with Bioware Solaufein because a fighter/wizard wouldn't be in the Fighter's Society, or because WeimerSolaufein's actions show that he doesn't believe in, "I do what I must, when I must, know this well," or because Bioware Solaufein's personality is inconsistent with a CG alignment, but not by saying we know things about Bioware Solaufein's sexuality that we don't know.
And your way, any bisexual person who doesn't state beyond all interpretation that he or she is bisexual is now deemed straight. But you somehow don't consider that unfair.
Yes, that's unfair as well.
It is common to automatically regard people one meets as straight, at first, because heterosexual people constitute a majority. But yes, it is unfair, just like presuming people/characters are bisexual if they don't make their preferences clear.
So why presume anything?
"The Bioware Solaufein was not clearly heterosexual or bisexual. It was only clear that he wasn't unable to be in love with a woman." We don't have enough evidence to go beyond that.
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I agree with Kish's reasoning in the last several posts. Well said!
Caswallon said:
That said, it is up to the player to decide. In one game, the PC is either male or female. So if you play a female character, there is no reason why she should suppose Solaufein to be attracted to men. In a certain game, only one possibility comes true, and the other one simply doesn't exist.
Yes, for example, in my game with a female PC, Sola was not bisexual. To my way of thinking, his "bisexuality" isn't really an aspect of his character, it is a device of convenience so that players can play through his mod without having to be a specific race or gender or without resorting to Shadowkeeper. Nothing more, nothing less.
Weimer said:
I posit that aside from a few quantifiable differences (e.g., child-bearing, body build, mental rotation speeds, etc.) most of these "differences" are social/environmental rather than innate/genetic.
My initial thought was that there are more behavioral traits hard-wired into our brains through millenia of evolution than we would like to think, and I was going to use Lisa's daughter's love of Barbie as an example. But then I thought about how whenever our dog gets hurt (usually when he's carrying a stick and he trips and it smacks him in the nose), he comes running to me for comfort, even if my husband is standing right next to him, and he certainly isn't affected by anything besides social conditioning, so there you are. Nurture wins.
Mental rotation speeds?
And to all you Anomen-haters out there ... the poor fellow is just insecure. Exercise some compassion, sheesh. ;-)
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So will it be
1) Hetero until proven bi
or
2) Bi until proven hetero
or
3) Neither until Sola identifies himself
Sexual orientation is too slippery a concept to assume much about. Everyone likes to think that if you know a bit about a person's sexual behavior then you can know their "orientation". But this is wishful thinking. If you define sexual orientation strictly in terms of behavior then you run into problems pretty quick (e.g. in the closet gay men who only sleep with women are no longer gay, straight identified women who have a one time fling with another woman become bi, etc, etc, etc). Defining it in terms of "inner feelings" runs into problems of its own, because such feelings are difficult to pin down (e.g. gay man who looks at a woman's body with desire once becomes bi, straight man who checks another guy out in a shower is suddenly bi as well, etc, etc, etc)
Probably the "easiest" crtiterion is self-identification (although it's not without its problems). If someone SAYS that they are gay, straight, or bi, then we take them on their word. At least it's clear but it does seem to miss some things....
Sorry for the academic digression; hazard of the trade (I'm a psychologist who studies gender).
Back to Solaufein:
Perhaps we can agree to "presume" nothing until Sola tells us.
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The Bioware Solaufein is clearly not a homosexual, but that's all we can say.
So unless some gay man hit on Solaufein in BG2 proper and Solaufein passed him up, saying something along the lines of: "Sorry man, I'm straight", Solaufein is officially bisexual?
You want proof to cross him off as bisexual, in accordance with a process of elimination; whereas, I want proof that he is bisexual before I'll believe it.
What if I said he was probably straight?
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Back to Solaufein:
Perhaps we can agree to "presume" nothing until Sola tells us.
Sounds reasonable to me.
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The Bioware Solaufein is clearly not a homosexual, but that's all we can say.
So unless some gay man hit on Solaufein in BG2 proper and Solaufein passed him up, saying something along the lines of: "Sorry man, I'm straight", Solaufein is officially bisexual?
No. That is not something anyone has said, suggested, or implied, as far as I've seen. It's a straw man.
You want proof to cross him off as bisexual, in accordance with a process of elimination; whereas, I want proof that he is bisexual before I'll believe it.
What if I said he was probably straight?
Then you would be correct.
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Back to Solaufein:
Perhaps we can agree to "presume" nothing until Sola tells us.
Sounds reasonable to me.
Good. Agreed.
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Could someone explain to me the purpose of this debate? I'm truly puzzled that anyone would be so concerned over someone's sexual preferance. Who needs proof that he is bisexual? Play a male PC and wham! He's Bi. Play a female and BOOM! He's straight. It doesn't seem to be that big an issue. Also, I'm not quite sure who insisted that he is bi in this thread, so the origional cause of this evaded me completely.
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My initial thought was that there are more behavioral traits hard-wired into our brains through millenia of evolution than we would like to think,
Entirely possible ... but yet to be demonstrated one way or the other.
and I was going to use Lisa's daughter's love of Barbie as an example.
I liked to play with dolls when I was a child. :-) In fact, when my friends would bring GI Joe "action figures" over I would refuse to play unless I could "marry" Duke and Scarlet -- I would essentially play house with them. The problem with anecdotal evidence is just that -- it's anecdotal. You only tend to remember it when it supports your thesis.
cf. James Randi's "horoscope trick" (vaguely detailed here: http://barelybad.com/fphoroscope.htm (http://barelybad.com/fphoroscope.htm) ). And while ( http://www.presseofre.dk/randi.htm (http://www.presseofre.dk/randi.htm) ) is a lovely rebuttal to Randi's attack on horoscopes, the basic notion that humans are always searching for causality and connection in a world where they can only perceive sequences of events and have a tendency to remember supporting evidence for theories is still useful.
But then I thought about how whenever our dog gets hurt (usually when he's carrying a stick and he trips and it smacks him in the nose), he comes running to me for comfort, even if my husband is standing right next to him, and he certainly isn't affected by anything besides social conditioning, so there you are. Nurture wins.
:-) Unfortunately, the same skepticism that causes me to doubt the doll claim also causes me to doubt the dog claim.
Mental rotation speeds?
Shepard and Metzler's cognitive psychology experiment. From a thousand feet, cognitive psychology (as opposed to, say, abnormal psychology or psychiatry) is concerned with definite measurements and reproducible experiments. This means that they cannot say much about the mind because they're restricted to talking about low-level things they can time with a stop-watch ... but when they do say something you can usually trust it. The point of this particular experiment is that mentally rotating an object takes time proportional to the angle (and thus physically rotating it), suggesting strongly that your brain actually builds a model of the object and moves it around continuously (rather than just jumping it to the correct angle or doing some abstract math or something). This conclusion was later supported by MRI-like experiments showing that neural firing patterns actually rotate linearly when subjects are asked to do rotation tasks. For one overview and some cites, see:
http://psychexps.olemiss.edu/InstrOnly_Pag...talrotation.htm (http://psychexps.olemiss.edu/InstrOnly_Page/mentalrotation.htm)
However, a *secondary* result of the experiments was that age and gender play a role in your mental rotation speed. As is so often the case in these tales, the difference between the average man and the average woman is very small compared to the difference between the fastest man and the slowest man (or the fastest woman and the slowest woman), so gender is not an amazingly good predictor of relative mental rotation speed. However, it is an example of reproducible, measurable gender-based physiological difference that is more quantitative than the obvious "women can have children" or the vague "men tend to be stronger".
And to all you Anomen-haters out there ... the poor fellow is just insecure. Exercise some compassion, sheesh. ;-)
Compassion? :-) Here's a quote from Star Control 2:
Humans: But our cause is just! Isn't altruism the highest pinnacle of morality?
Melnorme: No, it is not. In fact, in our culture, `giving' with no fair exchange of goods or services, is considered vulgar and inappropriate. Please do not mention this subject again.
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My initial thought was that there are more behavioral traits hard-wired into our brains through millenia of evolution than we would like to think,
Entirely possible ... but yet to be demonstrated one way or the other.
Yes, it's difficult to say without running experiments with reproducible results on human subjects. However, I seem to recall various studies of twins who were separated at birth and raised in distinctly different environments, but shared a variety of characteristics. Those may be as close as we'll come to actual scientifically-valid experiments.
I liked to play with dolls when I was a child. :-)
And I hated dolls. Guess that means you're a girl and I'm a boy. ;-)
The problem with anecdotal evidence is just that -- it's anecdotal. You only tend to remember it when it supports your thesis. ... Unfortunately, the same skepticism that causes me to doubt the doll claim also causes me to doubt the dog claim.
Damn, you noticed! Yes, such examples are only good for disproving theories, not for proving them.
Humans: But our cause is just! Isn't altruism the highest pinnacle of morality?
Melnorme: No, it is not. In fact, in our culture, `giving' with no fair exchange of goods or services, is considered vulgar and inappropriate. Please do not mention this subject again.
You sure that's not actually from Atlas Shrugged? I would suggest that perhaps compassion could be considered an expression of self-love: "I'm such a sensitive and caring person that I'll even put up with this boob. God, I'm a saint."
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Could someone explain to me the purpose of this debate?
Mu. Your question cannot be answered because it relies on an incorrect assumption. :-)
My two cents? I think Sola is a closet fictional character. Shhhh.
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I guess I'll add my two cents to this. I haven't tried Solaufein yet, and I was quite surprised reading this thread about this whole issue. But, I think I have something to add.
I think that the source of the controversy on this issue is the aspect of roleplaying involved in this game. As for me, I will only ever play as male characters in any roleplaying game when given the choice. Why? I feel like they are the only characters I can identify with, simply because I am male in real life. Even if there is no element of sexuality/gender identity in a game (meaning game characters would respond identically to you regardless of your gender, there are no romances, etc.), I will still feel compelled to play a male character, because the feeling of separation between myself and the character is greater when I play a female (or alien/creature/whatever the context). Sure, I can play a female and enjoy the game if the game is good, but if there is a character creation element to the game and I am allowed to choose a gender, I just feel like I have to pick male.
With that said, let's look at sexuality roleplaying in games. The truth in real life is that many straight men will be uncomfortable if a homo/bisexual man hits on them and/or makes it known that he is sexually attracted to them. That is a fact of life: that many straight men are uncomfortable with homosexuality, regardless of their attitudes towards homosexuals, including myself. I personally think that the hatred of homosexuals that some people have is terrible, and I have no problem with being friends with homosexuals (because I do have homosexual friends), but honestly, when a homosexual man hits on me (and this has happened), I feel very uncomfortable. The reasons for, consequences of, and morality involved with this are beyond the scope of this debate, but you can see where I am going with this. If the typical straight man is roleplaying a male character in BG2, it is likely they will be made uncomfortable (or will make themself uncomfortable, depending on how you see it) with a bisexual/homosexual male NPC's propositions.
So my point is this: by addressing this issue you are addressing something that is really beyond the scope of this game-related forum. Not that you shouldn't discuss these issues, but the psychology runs very deep. More appropriately, I think we should just look at Solaufein as a fictional game character and see his apparent bisexuality as a mechanism for allowing players to play him however they wish, and leave it at that. The purpose here is enjoyment, and allowing a homosexual relationship with Solaufein to occur widens the player base in this regard. So that's my $.02.
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hmm
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I really don't know why some people here think this game was meant to be only "straight"(and bigotted) to fit their preferances... hello!?... BG has many gay players and I think we have the right to enjoy it fully. Even if I don't see any purpouse in downloading romance-mods, 'couse for me romances in BG are the less importan part of the game, I would be pleased if gay-romances were added to the original game(Amnomen can be really sweet). And, who can tell that Drizzt, Amnomen or Keldorn were not closeted cases? You? You cannot. Nobody can , becouse it's a game, and we cannot ask them, so it's actually a question of our imagination and what we want them to be. Clear? (u'll better try romances in real life- couse there are really cute men out there :D ).
I'm more interested in mods that make this game more "intelligent". Nobody have ever thought of adding a mod with which u have to pay some money (3 gold per level of your character for example) to rest (anywhere!)?- this would make this easy game more challenging-- not to speak about cheese tactics (for example giving protection from magic scrolls to a simulcred character!) which I would make impossible with this mod... That is the essence of the game, and not some stupid Chloe or Tashia NPC....
I still prefer BG1 over BG2, maybe couse I like all these open woods and their magic atmosphere, unlike BG2 with this boring start in the big city of Athakalta (and this boring fanatics who try to fill this game with useless lesbo-porn-NPC's).
PS. And yes, I noticed all the str8 guys in this thread felt like to expose their sexual preferences(maybe they was scared somebody will think they are bisex like Sola if they don't tell us to be strICT)- so will I- I'm , of course, GAY, and yes, I also feel uncomfortable talking to str8 homophobic non-intelligent persons. It's interesting how homophobia and non-intelligence always come together.
Greetings to all of you and especially to gay posters!
You were saluted from the Adriatic sea coast, Croatia. Bye
:)
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Ah Adrian, isn't it a bit hypocritical to be gay yourself, but have a problem with gay woman?!
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And, who can tell that Drizzt, Amnomen or Keldorn were not closeted cases? You? You cannot. Nobody can , becouse it's a game, and we cannot ask them, so it's actually a question of our imagination and what we want them to be. Clear?
Ahem, I think R.A. Salvatore is the person who defines the details of Drizzt's personal life.
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Ah Adrian, isn't it a bit hypocritical to be gay yourself, but have a problem with gay woman?!
No, I wouldnt have problems if these lesbian NPC's were made for gay women, and not for lonely str8 males. ;)
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Chloe mod IS created by a woman...
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Huh?
I always thought that the whole idea of a roleplaying-game - were it tabletop, computer generated or live action - is the change to become someone else and emphasise that persons dreams, feelings, ambitions and desires. There is nothing that prevents that character from being different from yourself: that he or she has opinions, goals, skills and, yes, sexuality that are not yours. I admit that in the live action roleplay-game playing a character of different gender than your own can be bit challenging - for obvious reasons - but I have seen it done successfully and there is nothing that would stop you doing it at tabletop or computer roleplay.
Only your own imagination sets limits to you. :D
As for Sola... It never crossed my mind that I could think him strait while playing a female protagonist just because it never comes up in the dialogs. I'll just keep assuming that it does come up in a conversation when he and charname get closer but at this point the player just isn't listening. I just feel that it's part of his character did my PC know it or not and I don't see anything that would be at odds with the original Bioware NPC. Drow society tends to encourage people to keep up a role of sorts to protect sides of yourself that you might not want strangers to see. I'll accept Weimer as my Dungeon Master for anything concerning Sola. :D
All above IMO of course.
Cheers,
Meira
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Chloe mod IS created by a woman...
It's not important BY whom was created, but FOR whom...
Just a quote: " Chloe is here, and she has her eyes on YOU. . . and Imoen. Are you up for the challenge?"
"vomiting smiley"
It's clear for whom it was created.
PS. Anyway, this was the less importan part of my post, and everybody is just grabbing to that part. :rolleyes:
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Chloe mod IS created by a woman...
It's not important BY whom was created, but FOR whom...
Just a quote: " Chloe is here, and she has her eyes on YOU. . . and Imoen. Are you up for the challenge?"
"vomiting smiley"
It's clear for whom it was created.
PS. Anyway, this was the less importan part of my post, and everybody is just grabbing to that part. :rolleyes:
You know, Adrian, I'm not the creator, I'm just one of the translators of the Chloe mod, but as far as I can tell, it was created for anyone who wants to play it, be they lonely straight males, not-quite-as-lonely lesbian females or anything in between. In my humble opinion, it is quite a little dangerous to presume it was created for 'lonely str8 males'
Your other comment:
(and this boring fanatics who try to fill this game with useless lesbo-porn-NPC's)
Implies that you've haven't read anything about this mod, and actually, I find your assumption of it being a 'lesbo-porn' mod to be a little off the mark. I suggest reading up a little on that over at the Chloe forum. Wether it is useless or not I leave up to you, since if *you* don't like to have a kensai in your party, that assumption is entirely correct. For you.
If Lucy is a boring fanatic I don't know, but neither do you. Personally, I think she's far from being boring, but then that's my own personal opinion. You're entitled to yours however.
Oh, by the way, I've read over the dialogue files, and there's no porn to be found in there... strange, for a lesbo-porn-NPC. *shrugs*
Chloé Watermeade
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" Chloe is here, and she has her eyes on YOU. . . and Imoen. Are you up for the challenge?"
"vomiting smiley"
It's clear for whom it was created.
Sounds like good adveristing to me. Most of the folks who play BG2 are straight males. :rolleyes: From what I've read on the previews it seems like a well planned mod.
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Er...on the subject of one's orientation being nature versus nuture, I think it's a combination of the two. I have two friends at school, identical twin sisters. One's straight. The other's a lesbian. -shrug-
As for Solaufein...the whole female hierachy in Drow cultures could possibly make males shy away from females, and seek relationships in other males. But from the way Wei created him to be, I'd just assume he's bi, and leave it at that.
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Hrm, old thread but...
I didn't think that there really was enough there in the Bioware Sola modules to exclude a Bisexual revision of his character. Within the game, we are only told about one problematic relationship in his life. The rest of the details are left up to the imagination and the author of Sola managed to spin a plausible story around it. I know plenty of gay and bisexual men who had serious relationships with MOTOS (members of the opposite sex) before coming out. So the possibility that Sola would fall in love with the first person who treats him as an equal after being liberated from the constraints of drow society is not that far from realism.
In regards to drow culture, oh, I'm having trouble thinking how to explain this. I see drow culture as a big pecking order with Loth at the top, women under Loth, men next and slaves at the bottom. You can get away with anything, as long as you don't piss off anyone above you. There are, and have been cultures in which homosexual behavior is acceptable as long as it is a higher-status person getting pleasure from a lower-status person. The higher-status person is not even considered to be "gay" or "homosexual". This is how I see drow sexuality working (a definite turn-off for this bisexual man.) I don't think that anyone in drow societies would care about master-apprentice or mistress-novate relationships. Just don't do it in the street and frighten the spiders. And you can do anything with a slave as long as you properly dispose of it aftewards.
The only real taboos I see for drow sexuality are love and equality. Love is a liability and an equal means someone has to move up or down.
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Warp in a girdle of Femininity/Masculinity, and change his picture...
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Warp in a girdle of Femininity/Masculinity, and change his picture...
I would recommend this only if one wishes to crash the mod...
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Just tossing that out there for the homophobes, I usually play a female PC.
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*casts Raise Dead on the topic* What? I just thought the arguments were interesting...*sweatdrops*
Anyway, since I'm new, I must as well introduce myself. My name's Elwen.
Now that the red tape is out of the way...I noticed the sharp divide in this topic. Most of those who were against the idea of Solaufein being bi were (presumably) male, while most of those who were tolerant/didn't mind/for it were female.
Interesting little trend, hm?
Here's my theory on this trend, evolved from four or five years as a slash/yaoi writer (*specialized term-slash/yaoi is a subclass of fanfiction dealing with m/m relationships), I've noticed that 3/4 of all slash authors/readers are FEMALE, with the few exceptions, such as my boyfriend.
The popularity of yaoi (Japanese term) started in Japan, because girls wanted to see something of an equal relationship between partners, and a male-female relationship wasn't exactly equal: but two men could be.
Or, it's the reverse of the old men-find-lesbians-hot cliche. Simple terms. *shrug*
Personally, I actually liked the idea of a bi male NPC. Why? I always end up playing a male character, but I can't play a straight male character. Don't ask me why.
And I didn't find it all that OOC-as others have stated, all we know of Solaufein is this:
1) He had a female lover.
2) The boy's definitely NOT a virgin. (Tell me-how much of a chance is there of that? *snorts* .0000000000000000000000001%, and that's being generous.)
I personally prefer to believe he's bi. Once again, it's up to you. If you don't like him hitting on you, then turn him down. Simple as that.
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*casts Raise Dead on the topic* What? I just thought the arguments were interesting...*sweatdrops*
Anyway, since I'm new, I must as well introduce myself. My name's Elwen.
Now that the red tape is out of the way...I noticed the sharp divide in this topic. Most of those who were against the idea of Solaufein being bi were (presumably) male, while most of those who were tolerant/didn't mind/for it were female.
Interesting little trend, hm?
Here's my theory on this trend, evolved from four or five years as a slash/yaoi writer (*specialized term-slash/yaoi is a subclass of fanfiction dealing with m/m relationships), I've noticed that 3/4 of all slash authors/readers are FEMALE, with the few exceptions, such as my boyfriend.
The popularity of yaoi (Japanese term) started in Japan, because girls wanted to see something of an equal relationship between partners, and a male-female relationship wasn't exactly equal: but two men could be.
Or, it's the reverse of the old men-find-lesbians-hot cliche. Simple terms. *shrug*
Personally, I actually liked the idea of a bi male NPC. Why? I always end up playing a male character, but I can't play a straight male character. Don't ask me why.
And I didn't find it all that OOC-as others have stated, all we know of Solaufein is this:
1) He had a female lover.
2) The boy's definitely NOT a virgin. (Tell me-how much of a chance is there of that? *snorts* .0000000000000000000000001%, and that's being generous.)
I personally prefer to believe he's bi. Once again, it's up to you. If you don't like him hitting on you, then turn him down. Simple as that.
Actually Japanese Yaoi manga has its origins in Takarazuka (women only theater). Laws intended to curb prostitution in the late 1800s/early 1900s (may have the dates wrong, and can't be arsed to look it up) resulted in women's theatre troops that performed (at first) for all female audiences. Women played both male and female roles. They're still popular today; love stories with a female "male" lead have all of the romance and none of the threat, something that can be appealing, especially to a younger female audience (and of course to others). I'm sure that current western slash fiction has links to Yaoi manga, but slash was popular in the fan community for many years before much manga at all was reaching a western audience.
As to the Sola romance, it is what it is. I would have prefered a more interesting "friendship" path for those that like to play with a straight male PC, but then I'd also have prefered more of a friendship path with all of the Bioware romantic interests. Sola is overall a very well done mod.
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Wow. Wes, you done good. Clap everyone!
*half-hearted clapping from room*
CLAP BETTER YOU SONS OF MOTHERS OR I'M GONNA STEAL ALL YOUR DISC 2's!!!
*hearty round of applause*
Thats better. He really is a cool charicter, and the dialog is cool. Deep phioshophical discussions. Poetry. Mispronunciations of Gods names. And a really strong charater with a tough battle. Yup, Sola rocks.
If u'd seen the BG1 picture of Jaheira u wouldnt think her ugly i guess ^^
(http://www.gamebanshee.com/baldursgate/npcs/screenshots/jaheira.jpg)
One thing. Could a nice, sweet, non-Viconia version of Sola be made. Like a slightly tougher Aerie, but a drow? I dont like Viconia, too much of a biatch for me, and Jaheira is just too damn ugly. And old. That leaves Aerie, and whilst she has a nice voice, which translates well to IWD2, she isnt very strong. She's a wimp. But a nice, strong and yet honest female drow, maybe someone Sola knows of, and can vouch for, would be nice.
Just an idea.
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Maybe add a "toggle bisexuality" hotkey into his script.
But then I suppose everyone would be arguing over the default setting.
(For the record, I'd prefer cameraderie over romance from Sola when playing a male character.)