Kulyok,
Wow, thanks so much for the exceptionally fast and thorough response!
Now before I get carried away talking about my favorite part of roleplaying games, i.e. the freedom of choice---let's get the bugs part out of the way first. XD
Yes, I am playing the "vanilla" game as it was made, without any conversion mods, or inside another engine. I'm fairly certain Trials of the Luremaster is installed along with the latest official patch (v1.42.062714), but nevertheless, I tried to access the HoW content to double check....alas, I was rejected by Hjollder for the umpteenth time. I guess everybody in the team have to be at least lv9 and Korin and Nella whom I chose in the multiclass versions are not even lv7 in both classes yet. I do wish they had implemented a quick way to get back to town though, since I was halfway inside the Broken Hand and it was not easy trying to find my way back through that convoluted route--all for yet another rejection at the end.
As there have been problems in other games known to be caused by the GoG's oversight or removal of certain files, I'm a little suspicious the problem may be caused by something the GoG team did or *didn't* do in their compilation of the game, though considering the simplicity of the IwD game install (compared with some other games), it is kind of hard to mess up. Thankfully, this talk bug is just a minor annoyance and easily fixable by reloading, so even if the cause can't be found, at least it's not a big issue.
As for the Marchon talk, does it affect anything in the long run for the mod, such as setting any flags, or is it just an individual conversation that's optional? I really do NOT want to replay the game to get that talk again, especially considering the Yxunomei battle was crazy hard. (Most of my party was at lv6, now I understand why it was so difficult.) Could you tell me an easy way to trigger the talk again using the console if necessary?
Okay, now here's comes the long winded part (prepare yourself
).
Regarding the amount of choice provided in PC roleplay... The easiest way for me to explain would be to simply list "A Dance with Rogues" as one of the best examples of a game in providing the most thoroughly explored and deeply varied conversation options during PC-NPC interactions. It would also be a bit unfair and demanding to you if you have never played it, since to experience it you would have to install the entire NWN game (including expansions) and then play the mod--because ADwR, what I consider to be one of the best romance games for a female player that most have never played is a NWN player made module.
http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=modules.detail&id=4869To explain in more generalized terms, without the benefit of specific examples, I think to truly engage a player and invoke emotion in roleplaying games, there needs to be choices, a LOT of them, and they need to matter. It's okay to use the game creator's cheat once in a while and tie in conversation choices with a generic response that fits several options at the same time, but if you over use them, especially during important, emotionally significant places such as PC-NPC relationship building talks, they will make the player feel marginalized.
In my view, the best kind of games provide a wealth of choices, including in-depth conversation options that reflect a myriad of personalities or more realistically, the many facets of the complex human nature that presents itself differently under different circumstances. Of course, that is a lot of work, and realistically speaking, one has to stop somewhere within the range of sanity or run the risk of either having the game author die of exhaustion or the game never being completed. Either way, that game would never see the light of day, and that is a damn shame that way. So, you'll have to build up your knowledge of the multitude of facets on different personalities, develop your own system of dialogue choices, and most of all, try to work out a balance between choice (including interactivity) and feasibility. On that note, there are already many different examples of people's experiments. Bioware's Dragon Age 2 did a pretty good trial into personality and giving the protagonist a voice to boot, though they could definitely go deeper (in terms of the level of choice available). I've heard great things about conversation choice in Alpha Protocol from Obsidian, though I've never played it for myself. From my experience in NWN2 and Knights of the Old Republic 2 though, I have noticed Obsidian is definitely leading the game when it comes to the level of detail in conversation choices.
It's fine if you don't assume a role for the player. In fact, DON'T force the player into a stereotype, that's not a good thing. But on the other hand, don't choose all neutral responses either! At the very least, limit them to the less important places, such as a response to information providing conversations, etc. In your case, your mod is all about NPCs and relationships, so just about all talks are the important, emotionally significant part. That means you'll have to do a lot of heavy lifting.
Besides not forcing a player into stereotypes yet also not perpetuating neutral responses, the reason for offering as many different choices as possible for a player is to allow the player to be himself or herself. To be able to express the emotion that they feel for a given situation, or to do or say the thing that they wish to enact, which ultimately is all to allow the player to take part in the story, to be actively involved, instead of just a helpless observer. That I believe, is the deepest joy a game can bring, the secret to the attractiveness of a game over a movie or book. It's the interactivity.
So, as a game creator, you have to be able to envision as many different types of responses and personalities as possible, and provide that choice to the player. Since you can't foresee every single person's choice, at the very least, choose strong, in depth choices that reflect emotions that would be naturally occuring in that situation for a large number of people. Then, if you've still got energy left, throw in a few wild cards like that BG1 response you mentioned just for fun. Going back to ADwR, I was not only impressed by the number of choices given for the player in almost every single conversation, I was further delighted by the fact that there were quite a few instances where the available response matched unncannily the exact emotion I was feeling at the time. In one instance, a character I greatly cared about had just died, suddenly, brutally, and another minor character simply with a name that had an association in a roundabout way was mentioned in a passing remark--it was a very minor thing, but in that moment when I was grieving, it struck a chord in my heart and made me miss the character that died even more. What made me feel like both crying and laughing at the same time though, was how the game's narration mentioned my PC sharing the exact same sentiment in her mind, all without even having to make me select a choice to do so. Some would say it's like the game read my mind. For me, I was more appreciative than ever of Valine, the ADwR author's level of empathy and attention to detail. Later on, I found out that apparently Valine plays her own mod. Played through more than once, and with different roleplaying personalities each time. Who would have thought? A game creator that plays her own game? And apparently greatly enjoys it every time too. That's how she managed to get so many different types of choices into there, and how she manages to "foresee" the emotionally relevant responses. I think this should become mandatory for all lead designers/writers of games. Not just play testing their own games, but to really, truly enjoy it from a player's perspective--preferrably from many different players' perspective.
I should end here since it's already too long, but I thought I should leave you with a more specific example from your own mod. The story Holvir shared about his childhood experience with the fire, was for me the most moving and engaging background I had learned about your NPCs so far. Apart from being in some ways better written, it was a trauma that was very real, relevant in any "world", including the real one we all share, and thus easily empathized with. I am a person who prefers not to interrupt someone when they are sharing a very personal experience. I *listen* first. So although I felt deeply sympathetic towards his plight, I wanted to encourage him to finish his story first. Then I wanted to tell him I cared (in a way more than just saying "I care"), to express my regret at his experience in some way, and sincerely praise him for the courage and compassion he showed at such a young age, during such a horrific event. Depending on the level of relationship progression and the mood at the moment, perhaps I would even gently touch his arm where it was so brutally broken in an urge to soothe the shared pain that was felt. These are the different degrees of emotional expression, and as you can see, not all of them have to be verbal, and most of them definitely do not have to be at the same time. Your options given by comparison, were only a cursory "I'm sorry" (woefully inadequet in most situations), and an either-or choice that made me miss the chance to expresses even that modicum of sympathy simply because I chose to hear the entire story first. It of course also did not help at all that most of the time even the cursory options given would not make an ounce of difference in the NPC's reaction to them. That is why I felt terribly, terribly marginalized, to the point where I might as well be a cardboard figure standing in as the entirely weightless role of the nameless, featureless protagonist.
I should end here since it's already too long, but I thought I would leave you with a more specific example from your own mod. The story Holvir shared about his childhood experience with the fire, was for me the most moving and engaging background I had learned about your NPCs so far. Apart from being in some ways better written, it was a trauma that was very real, relevant in any "world", including the real one we all share, and thus easily empathized with. I am a person who prefers not to interrupt someone when they are sharing a very personal experience. I *listen* first. So although I felt deeply sympathetic towards his plight, I wanted to encourage him to finish his story first. Then I wanted to tell him I cared (in a way more than just saying "I care"), to express my regret at his experience in some way, and sincerely praise him for the courage and compassion he showed at such a young age, during such a horrific event. Depending on the level of relationship progression and the mood at the moment, perhaps I would even gently touch his arm where it was so brutally broken in an urge to soothe the shared pain that was felt. These are the different degrees of emotional expression, and as you can see, not all of them have to be verbal, and most of them definitely do not have to be at the same time. Your options given by comparison, were only a cursory "I'm sorry" (woefully inadequet in most situations), and an either-or choice that made me miss the chance to expresses even that modicum of sympathy simply because I chose to hear the entire story first. It of course also did not help at all that most of the time even the cursory options given would not make an ounce of difference in the NPC's reaction to them. That is why I felt terribly, terribly marginalized, to the point where I might as well be a cardboard figure standing in as the entirely weightless role of the nameless, featureless protagonist.
That reminds me to ask two questions (don't worry, this really is the end): 1. From the ubiquitous use of the nomenclature "our leader", I'm guessing the IwD engine doesn't have a "CHARNAME" function? I am resigned to the fact that in most games I wouldn't be able to actually hear the characters call me by my name, but to have no one use my name even in a game that used all text for dialogues.... It's just so UNFAIR. >_< 2. Is Severn romanceable? I noticed in one of the threads where someone posed a question regarding which character were romanceable, you answered that "you don't really expect me to tell you that up front, do you?" (or some such). The thing is, I do. Characters and the emotional ties they provide is always something I feel that gives ultimate weight and meaning to a story, and consequently, a game, and romances, as one of the deepest connections one can build with another, are at the heart of such emotional ties. So romance is always a part of what I look for, and I'd definitely like to know beforehand which characters are "available" so I can avoid investing too much emotion and getting my hopes dashed otherwise. From my experience, game creators sometimes have a different idea of what is attractive to a player, particularly a female player, and I found myself often admiring qualities such as the moral build of non-romanceable characters far more than the so called love interests--but that tends to happen more in Japanese games. Though Garrus being arguably far more popular than Kaidan also says something--good thing Bioware listened so quickly to the fans! Anyway, I'm digressing. In your mod, admittedly, I do find some qualities mildly more attractive in Holvir or Korin versus Severn, but funnily enough he was the one who connected better emotionally with my character in the early stages, likely due to his easy going personality. I am bothered by the fact that he seems to be a closed off non-choice from the beginning. Please, kill me now or tell me it is not so. *stage faint*