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Topic Summary

Posted by: DavidW
« on: September 19, 2018, 10:25:57 PM »

The point was ...
I build lots of files, but I build them outside the mod folder, in stratagems_external/workspace
.. you could have done so in: stratagems/internal/workspace -and you would have been fine.
Of course I could have done, but then the mod folder wouldn’t be immutable, which is the whole point.
Posted by: The Imp
« on: September 19, 2018, 09:57:52 PM »

The point was ...
I build lots of files, but I build them outside the mod folder, in stratagems_external/workspace
.. you could have done so in: stratagems/internal/workspace -and you would have been fine. The only real reason I can think of shuffling files outside the mod folder is that you .bif them, as you do so from the whole folder, while using a folder size check.
Posted by: DavidW
« on: September 19, 2018, 06:45:55 PM »

Yeah, and the SCS takes two folders.

I'm not sure I understand the point you're making.
Posted by: The Imp
« on: September 19, 2018, 05:31:57 PM »

In the current state of the weidu backup system, there is one really annoying thing: when the weidu create "backup" folder and create binary files which are needed for the uninstallation, weidu itself directly affecting the mod directory. I really don't like this design. In order to use the same extracted mod, players have to make sure that they will remove "backup" folder when they will copy for eg cdtweaks + setup-cdtweaks.exe from BG1EE to BG2EE. If the unaware player will forgot about this, it will cause problems for them because "backup" folder will have leftover from the previous installation. Not to mention countless re-uploading mod because author forgot to remove "backup" folder.
You know, usually mods are archives, not random packets of files... aka, just EXTRACT the files a new. Is that so much to ask ?

Yeah, and the SCS takes two folders. I'll in my next mod throw things not in the game folder, but at the root directory and we'll see whose fun that will ruin. People, people. You could fix all this by actually doing what you ought to, have a back up of the game folder in a .rar archive, and use that as a clean install. Why, cause it extracts faster than the direct copy does, copying...
And you don't need fancy links, just delete the mod folder after you uninstall it. Yeah, remember, you'll have to test that too, not just install.
Posted by: DavidW
« on: September 19, 2018, 10:35:10 AM »

Coming very late to this thread, but in fact SCS's mod directory is completely immutable during the install process and has been since I merged scs and scsii into stratagems. I build lots of files, but I build them outside the mod folder, in stratagems_external/workspace, and backups live in stratagems_external/backup/stratagems. Longer discussion at http://gibberlings3.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=29677&hl=
Posted by: AL|EN
« on: July 21, 2017, 05:13:07 AM »

Quote
Oh, Tweaks isn't your problem. Go take a look at SCS and its initialization of SSL if you really want to give up.
Yep, that make the "backup" problem trivial compared to the fact that the mod files itself are changed after one installation. We need a solution to prevent re-use of already installed mod directory.

Posted by: Wisp
« on: July 20, 2017, 07:34:38 PM »

In addition, I would also propose a solution (installed.flag etc) which will prevent installing any mod which was copied to another installation. The weidu.log can have some sort of "unique game/installation hash" and each mod would get such hash as a flag/other. So if the will mismatch after coping mod files, weidu will prevent installation.
But this actually might. Just prevent installation prompt of a component if a backup folder for it exists and has some stuff in it, and tell the user to go and clean it up. INSTALL_BY_DEFAULT should be excluded from the rule though, I think, and maybe some other flags too. Installing with shell scripts should also ignore it.
I'll pencil it (prevent component installation if there already exists backup data for the component) in for when I rewrite the install code.
Posted by: GeN1e
« on: July 19, 2017, 01:45:59 PM »

why not simply add an automatic function to Weidu to back up a clean copy of the mod before it installs? Then you can simply grab it from that backup location.
I'm not sure it's gonna solve his problem. If there're players unpacking mod archives, installing them, then moving the unpacked mod folders with all their backups to another game, then I can bet all the money in the world they won't even know there's an automatic backup made. The point of which eludes me all the same, because you can just as easily re-unpack the archive.

In addition, I would also propose a solution (installed.flag etc) which will prevent installing any mod which was copied to another installation. The weidu.log can have some sort of "unique game/installation hash" and each mod would get such hash as a flag/other. So if the will mismatch after coping mod files, weidu will prevent installation.
But this actually might. Just prevent installation prompt of a component if a backup folder for it exists and has some stuff in it, and tell the user to go and clean it up. INSTALL_BY_DEFAULT should be excluded from the rule though, I think, and maybe some other flags too. Installing with shell scripts should also ignore it.
Posted by: CamDawg
« on: July 19, 2017, 10:58:30 AM »

That would be even worse! I've just check cdtweaks using git/folder compare and this is what I found:

cdtweaks\lib\pnp_dual_core.tpa
cdtweaks\lib\pnp_dual_working.tpa

Regarding lib\pnp_dual_core.tpa and \lib\pnp_dual_working.tpa changes case, what would be the effect of coping cdtweaks folder (skipping backup) after it was installed, and use it for another installation?
Oh, Tweaks isn't your problem. Go take a look at SCS and its initialization of SSL if you really want to give up.
Posted by: AL|EN
« on: July 19, 2017, 10:24:02 AM »

Quote
Why do that?
People are doing such thing since I've remember. I always think that the backup is only problem, but it seems that it's much more

Quote
Rather than impose rules on how modders can treat their own mod folders (I mean come on, if that's not a space I can work with as I see fit, what is??), why not simply add an automatic function to Weidu to back up a clean copy of the mod before it installs? Then you can simply grab it from that backup location.
Very good idea. In addition, I would also propose a solution (installed.flag etc) which will prevent installing any mod which was copied to another installation. The weidu.log can have some sort of "unique game/installation hash" and each mod would get such hash as a flag/other. So if the will mismatch after coping mod files, weidu will prevent installation.
Posted by: subtledoctor
« on: July 19, 2017, 10:17:34 AM »

That would be even worse! I've just check cdtweaks using git/folder compare and this is what I found:

You want to be horrified, look inside the '/deity' folder before and after installing Faiths & Powers. :P

Regarding lib\pnp_dual_core.tpa and \lib\pnp_dual_working.tpa changes case, what would be the effect of coping cdtweaks folder (skipping backup) after it was installed, and use it for another installation?

Why do that? It's easy enough to just grab a clean copy of the mod for that 2nd install.

More generally, lots of mods NEED workspace to do things before the final install into /override... surely it's better for such operations to be contained rather than polluting the player's game folder (where it would be easy to delete or alter them).

Rather than impose rules on how modders can treat their own mod folders (I mean come on, if that's not a space I can work with as I see fit, what is??), why not simply add an automatic function to Weidu to back up a clean copy of the mod before it installs? Then you can simply grab it from that backup location.

(Players can/should do this themselves, anyway. I have extracted copies of all mods I intend to use (in folders numbered according to install order, yeah I'm anal), and I only copy (not move) the mod folder into my game folder when I'm about to do an install. I know BWS doesn't do this... to its detriment IMO. It seems like it would be a trivial thing to add. And more generally the entire functions of 1) downloading mods and 2) installing mods, should be more distinct.
Posted by: AL|EN
« on: July 19, 2017, 10:16:22 AM »

ikki such proposition could only come from people who never have to deal with Fixpack. Only few mod authors care about it. You want to create patches for all existing mods and all future mods since nobody will read readme/IE modding best practices? Are you serious?

But in the light of the CamDawg post, we need to wait for his answer.
Posted by: ikki
« on: July 19, 2017, 07:01:25 AM »

Quote
weidu itself directly affecting the mod directory
Is that not something that the Big World Fixpack should handle ?
It is just a matter of changing one line from "mymod/backup" to "backup/mymod" in the tp2 (and adding the corresponding directory?)

and i'm pretty sure that when modders see that things work fine with this new template (because everyone has copied the way weimer did the backup in his mod) things will change
Posted by: GeN1e
« on: July 19, 2017, 02:38:01 AM »

This thread made me wonder - should matches be banned worldwide too, because you may accidentally set your house on fire if you aren't careful?
Posted by: AL|EN
« on: July 18, 2017, 03:12:35 PM »

That would be even worse! I've just check cdtweaks using git/folder compare and this is what I found:

cdtweaks\lib\pnp_dual_core.tpa
cdtweaks\lib\pnp_dual_working.tpa

Regarding lib\pnp_dual_core.tpa and \lib\pnp_dual_working.tpa changes case, what would be the effect of coping cdtweaks folder (skipping backup) after it was installed, and use it for another installation?