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Topic Summary

Posted by: Aubrey
« on: August 11, 2002, 09:13:28 AM »

Okay. It might be just me because I had played the game before and knew exactly what to expect, but still I don't find those somewhat important.

And in any case, I don't underestimate Weimer's work here, on the contrary.




                   
Posted by: Artemidore
« on: August 11, 2002, 06:25:18 AM »

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Personally, I found some of SoA additional interjections poor (sorry, Weimer), such as the one with the Knights in Windspear Hills or at Firkraag's dundgeon.  There I felt Solaufein hasn't really had something important to say.
I liked the one at Firkraag's dungeon. Actually, there are four of them there. First with Samia: Sola is trusting her, and he gives bad advice, that's nice! but he doesn't trust her too much, that's nice too! Second with the werewolves: Sola guesses it's a trap. Hmm, well, it was pretty obvious anyway. Third with Firkraag: he gives some good advice about how fighting dragons, and I think it's a good idea! During my first fight against Firkraag, a long long time ago, I was really surprised by that Buffet thing. Fourth with Conster: he just says something like "I'm a mage and you too, couldn't we talk rather than fight?" Ok, maybe this one is not the greatest thing he says during the whole game, but it's however fine, he is non-violent. --End of my praising to Weimer and to his dialogues  :rolleyes:

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Now, if we go for interjections just for the sake of interjections alone, we are going to diminish Solaufein -- and I don't think he deserves it.

Anyway, you're right, Aubrey,  Weimer should not write new interjections in Watcher's Keep just because the other NPC have something to say there.                    



[!--EDIT|Artemidore|Aug 11 2002, 02:27 PM--]
Posted by: Aubrey
« on: August 11, 2002, 02:01:40 AM »

@Artemidore --

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I just read again all this thread. I did not mind this one, but now I do. What did you mean?


That probably Kelsey reflects partly Jason himself.  

 
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I recently went one more time through Watcher's Keep, and I thought: how about having an interjection here?

My humble, and not of much importance at all, opinion is that it could be done, but only if Weimer feels inspired. If he doesn't, then it's better not to do it. Personally, I found some of SoA additional interjections poor (sorry, Weimer), such as the one with the Knights in Windspear Hills or at Firkraag's dundgeon.  There I felt Solaufein hasn't really had something important to say.  

Now, if we go for interjections just for the sake of interjections alone, we are going to diminish Solaufein -- and I don't think he deserves it.   :)

Just my thought


Cheers                    
Posted by: Artemidore
« on: August 10, 2002, 07:00:15 PM »

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And the Kelsey/Solaufein romance conflict will remain optional, although Kelsey and I have always and will continue to cast our evil eyes at such "roleplaying."

And not only at "roleplaying, if I may the guess. :)
I just read again all this thread. I did not mind this one, but now I do. What did you mean?

Oh, right. Aubrey, Jason, don't reply this message, I'm just teasing you with old stuff (ten days ago!). Sometimes, I do quite gratuitous things.  
 :ph34r:                    



[!--EDIT|Artemidore|Aug 11 2002, 02:00 AM--]
Posted by: Artemidore
« on: August 10, 2002, 06:16:35 PM »

Back to initial Weimer's question:

I recently went one more time through Watcher's Keep, and I thought: how about having an interjection here? There are quite a lot of NPC who have something to tell in the last level, after the first talk with Demogorgon, when you are stuck (well, I didn't actually check every NPC, but in my party, Nalia, Imoen and Anomen (maybe it was Jaheira?) had something to say. And it is truly a harrowing situation (I found the word in a dictionnary  :D !), so if you're still looking for more TOB interjections, Weimer, this could be an idea. Or maybe when Odren's betrayal becomes obvious.

PS: do you also intend to write TOB interjections for Valen? I did not see them on the ToDo list, neither interparty banters. But it's OK, I guess all of this requires quite a lot of time, and that you first intend to work on Valen Romance... I'm just so impatient to read new dialogues for Valen... :D almost as much as to read new dialogues for Sola!!!                    



[!--EDIT|Artemidore|Aug 11 2002, 01:22 AM--]
Posted by: jcompton
« on: August 02, 2002, 02:25:27 PM »

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-rw-r--r--    1 weimer   None        86805 Aug  1 22:04 SOLA.TRA

I think the common conception that Solaufein doesn't have much to say is a relic of the past. Between the slowly-creeping romance dialogues and the interjections, he's quite competitive.
                   Incidentally, because of the pretty much all-purpose nature of sola.dlg, you have a unique opportunity to corner the market on Watcher's Keep interjections available during SOA. (well, unique to you, not unique to Solaufein, since you could do the same with Valen.)

Virtually all, if not all, of the interjections in WK are socked into the TOB xxxxxxxJs, and I'm doing the same with Kelsey unless I get really bored and decide to edit the code to also include SOA versions. (Me, I think part of the fun of WK is going through, fight fight fight, get a new item, then whisk it back to Cespy to see what he can do with it, so I like to save it, but if folks want to, say, tackle the Keep as soon as they get Solaufein...)

                   
Posted by: jcompton
« on: August 01, 2002, 11:27:49 PM »

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Here's a slightly more precise calculation. After installing Solaufein, I used WeiDU to generate TRA files for all dialogue said by Edwin and all dialogue said by Solaufein.

Ah, that's smarter than what I did.

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Thus: "I think on the whole it's clear that Solaufein does have more lines than some of the more modest interjectors like Edwin."

I stand corrected. I really wasn't trying to put the guy down.

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I think the common conception that Solaufein doesn't have much to say is a relic of the past.

Well, yeah, I was reacting to the idea that he was saying too much out of all proportion. But I'll just shut up now.                    
Posted by: weimer
« on: August 01, 2002, 11:22:29 PM »

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An imperfect comparison is to look at the xxxxxxJ dialogue files for the Bioware NPCs. A quick glance over the xxxxxxJ dialogue files for the Bioware NPCs shows that they usually have at least 200 lines in there. Now, those DO include their quest-related dialogue, so you'd have to count Solaufein's spider/moonblade type items to be fair, but I think on the whole it's clear that Solaufein doesn't have more lines than even some of the modest interjectors like Edwin. (to say nothing of Jaheira, whose J file is 500+ states in length.)
Here's a slightly more precise calculation. After installing Solaufein, I used WeiDU to generate TRA files for all dialogue said by Edwin and all dialogue said by Solaufein. Note that this uniformly ignores all dialogue said by other NPCs to  that person (so it skips the Leaflord's lines to Solaufein and Salvanas's come-on to Edwina, but includes both of their respective replies).

Here are the file sizes:

-rw-r--r--    1 weimer   None        13024 Aug  1 22:03 BEDWIN.TRA
-rw-r--r--    1 weimer   None         03527 Aug  1 22:03 BEDWINWO.TRA
-rw-r--r--    1 weimer   None        16547 Aug  1 22:03 EDWIN.TRA
-rw-r--r--    1 weimer   None        26361 Aug  1 22:03 EDWINJ.TRA
-rw-r--r--    1 weimer   None         00952 Aug  1 22:03 EDWINP.TRA
-rw-r--r--    1 weimer   None         02868 Aug  1 22:03 EDWINW.TRA
-rw-r--r--    1 weimer   None        86805 Aug  1 22:04 SOLA.TRA


To sum up, that's about 518 strings totalling 63279 characters for Edwin and  736 strings totalling 86805 characters for Solaufein.

Thus: "I think on the whole it's clear that Solaufein does have more lines than some of the more modest interjectors like Edwin."

I think the common conception that Solaufein doesn't have much to say is a relic of the past. Between the slowly-creeping romance dialogues and the interjections, he's quite competitive.                    
Posted by: jcompton
« on: July 30, 2002, 08:18:51 PM »

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@jcompton

my mistake..I thought  you were going to make the kelsey/sola romance thing nonoptional for ToB..sorry for the misunderstanding...  :o
                   No, the Trademeet Accords of 2002, signed by Weimer and myself, explicitly require that Solaufein interference be user-uninstallable.

                   
Posted by: starrie
« on: July 30, 2002, 07:43:10 PM »

@jcompton

my mistake..I thought  you were going to make the kelsey/sola romance thing nonoptional for ToB..sorry for the misunderstanding...  :o                    
Posted by: Aubrey
« on: July 30, 2002, 05:59:47 PM »

Quote
And the Kelsey/Solaufein romance conflict will remain optional, although Kelsey and I have always and will continue to cast our evil eyes at such "roleplaying."

And not only at "roleplaying, if I may the guess. :)


Cheers                    
Posted by: jcompton
« on: July 30, 2002, 05:20:47 PM »

Quote
It is too bad forgotten wars decided to make us choose between kelsey and sola..(it is optional now but won't be when ToB comes out) I'm not sure I'll ever see the new kelsey dialogues. Sola is just too much fun to give up  ;)
Eh?

You can always have Kelsey and Solaufein in the party together, unless you install the Kelsey-is-aware-of-the-PC-screwing-around-on-him module and choose to screw around on him!

And the Kelsey/Solaufein romance conflict will remain optional, although Kelsey and I have always and will continue to cast our evil eyes at such "roleplaying."                    



[!--EDIT|jcompton|Jul 31 2002, 12:21 AM--]
Posted by: starrie
« on: July 30, 2002, 04:43:21 PM »

@lump

"I play TOB at the moment and somehow I hate Westley a bit ;-) :
I dont like TOB anymore. There arent so many comments of Sola anymore and so im missing him and its not really fun to play TOB anymore. "
 

I agree....between sola being silent and kelsey not having anything to say yet..I'm kind stuck with tashia..although she gets alot more fun in ToB.(and of course the bioware npc's) It is too bad forgotten wars decided to make us choose between kelsey and sola..(it is optional now but won't be when ToB comes out) I'm not sure I'll ever see the new kelsey dialogues. Sola is just too much fun to give up  ;)                    
Posted by: Lump
« on: July 27, 2002, 10:24:52 PM »

@starrie:
"In my opinon...the commentary and interactions given by solaufein are a welcome addition and should be encouraged. It gives a greater depth to the character.."

YESSSSS  :D  my opinion.

I play TOB at the moment and somehow I hate Westley a bit ;-) :
I dont like TOB anymore. There arent so many comments of Sola anymore and so im missing him and its not really fun to play TOB anymore.
                   
Posted by: Aubrey
« on: July 26, 2002, 01:34:16 AM »

Have you seen Anomen fighting with Kelsey over pc's love? It's a sight to see! :lol:


Cheers