Author Topic: Unimmersive encounter  (Read 1862 times)

Offline Sergio1992

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Unimmersive encounter
« on: May 13, 2019, 12:56:41 AM »
Hello,
there is an encounter from "Creature & Area Improvements All Creature & Area Improvements v 3.3" that I think should either be removed or tweaked.

While travelling in Akthlakha, even before paying gaelan bayle, you can face an encounter with three or more vampires. I don't think that is consistent and coherent with BG2's story.

The encounter should be either removed, or tweaked to appear after you come back from Spellhold.


Offline Azazello

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Re: Unimmersive encounter
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2019, 03:22:14 PM »
What happens in the encounter that seems out-of-place?
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Offline Sergio1992

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Re: Unimmersive encounter
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2019, 03:11:09 AM »
You are ambushed by Vampires: this shouldn't happen at all. Why?

> You are being observed by Bodhi and she would not allow any vampire, not even from far far places to actually drain you.

> Facing vampires would make <charname> hostiles to bodhi's proposal

> Risking your life would mean Irenicus getting pretty mad to Bodhi, and she wouldn't want to get disintegrated by Irenicus.

Do I need to add other reasons?

Offline Azazello

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Re: Unimmersive encounter
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2019, 12:08:26 PM »
Those are really good points. I've never seen anyone presenting those before, in all the time I've followed the game's history. And they are correct (except about Irenicus, isn't it in Spellhold Maze Bodhi says she's not afraid of him.)

A short-term fix would be to comment out the encounter.

In the long run, someone can script it differently: maybe a dialogue, no-fight; maybe a separate component.
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Offline Sergio1992

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Re: Unimmersive encounter
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2019, 02:03:08 PM »
Those are really good points. I've never seen anyone presenting those before, in all the time I've followed the game's history. And they are correct (except about Irenicus, isn't it in Spellhold Maze Bodhi says she's not afraid of him.)

A short-term fix would be to comment out the encounter.

In the long run, someone can script it differently: maybe a dialogue, no-fight; maybe a separate component.
For the third I would beg to differ (at least in my mind) because Irenicus:

1) Carefully chose you amongst all the Bhaalspawns
2) Had you imprisoned for a long time and experimented on you
3) Actually hired the thieves guild to get you (and he usually acts methodically and efficiently: this means he actually exposed himself and he would never do that if he is not sure that his plans would come to fruition)
4) Had a base he set up to do all these things
5) Was able to actually hide for all these years
6) Got discovered because of the mess that happened over the promenade (and I'm not totally sure, but I seem to remember that it was implied he did that on purpose)

Imagine if Bodhi killed charname after all the time Irenicus spent on you. I don't think him to be so lenient when there are errors involved and he actually is all but forgiving (especially in the matter that he is trying to fix: just see what he did to the two elves when he met them in person in front of the drow matriarch).

Beside, in my opinion, Bodhi does the big talking, but she is not as strong as the brother.


« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 02:05:57 PM by Sergio1992 »

Offline Wisp

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Re: Unimmersive encounter
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2019, 02:26:07 PM »
This content seems to be from Misc Enhancements -> With Additional Random Encounters, not Creature and Area Improvements.

It does seem rather pointless. It's just some rando vampires with none of the chit-chat of the vanilla encounters. Maybe add a check for whether the PC is working for Aran? This would limit the encounter to some night after paying Gaelan but before leaving for Spellhold.

Offline Sergio1992

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Re: Unimmersive encounter
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2019, 03:12:44 PM »
This content seems to be from Misc Enhancements -> With Additional Random Encounters, not Creature and Area Improvements.

It does seem rather pointless. It's just some rando vampires with none of the chit-chat of the vanilla encounters. Maybe add a check for whether the PC is working for Aran? This would limit the encounter to some night after paying Gaelan but before leaving for Spellhold.
Either
1) You adopt the solution you suggested
or
2) You remove the encounter, given that it doesn't seem to match at all what the component intends to offer. Added note: doubt very much Bodhi would waste vampires against you, given your strength.
or
3) the encounter doesn't even have a "fixed" tone: what I mean is that sometimes I met three normal vampires, other times ancient vampires, other times fledging vampires, other times a mix of these I listed. This was probably because I use SCS: that means that the encounter may prove too difficult right after paying Bayle, but not too difficult right after coming back from the underdark. 
But to be sure you "experience" it, you would need to force the encounter as soon as you go to the cemetery, otherwise it may get missed.  Does it seem to you that this is an ideal encounter?

By the way Wisp, I'm happy to see you still active in Baldur's gate boards.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 05:05:28 PM by Sergio1992 »

Offline Azazello

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Re: Unimmersive encounter
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2019, 03:35:00 PM »
.... just remove it because it doesn't have the "quality" of the other material this particular component offers
Without Sim's final word, it's a slippery slope removing his (i.e. any author's) content. (Although the breakdancing gnoll did indeed have.to.go!) Doesn't matter that he's MIA.

I like Wisp's idea, fit it into the vanilla game. Then, it'll definitely be 'pointful'.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 03:42:17 PM by Azazello »
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Offline Isewein

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Re: Unimmersive encounter
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2019, 11:55:44 AM »
I remember having the same thoughts when happening upon this encounter, but had assumed it was a mistake present in the base game. I guess we could assume that some vampires could not contain their bloodlust any longer and had no idea who Charname is, but I think making the encounter conditional on working with anyone but Bodhi (for Alternatives compatibility) would be the best solution, as suggested by Wisp.

Offline Wisp

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Re: Unimmersive encounter
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2019, 12:40:50 PM »
Yeah, I'll limit it to chapter 3 and not working for Bodhi, which is the same as having sided with someone other than Bodhi.

Offline Sergio1992

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Re: Unimmersive encounter
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2019, 04:45:47 PM »
Wisp, an unrelated question:  does Questpack's Ai component affect Bg:ee and SoD creatures?  I'm playing with EET, but I got the same question for BGT.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2019, 10:46:58 AM by Sergio1992 »

Offline Wisp

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Re: Unimmersive encounter
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2019, 04:45:19 AM »
Wisp, an unrelated question:  does Questpack's Ai component affect Bg:ee and SoD creatures?  I'm playing with EET, but I got the same question for BGT.
Not generally. Spiders may be affected, and maybe there are creatures used in SoD which use the same scripts as in BG2, but QP's script enhancements are targeted at specific creatures, most of which are BG2 content.

Offline Sergio1992

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Re: Unimmersive encounter
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2019, 04:15:18 PM »
okay, thank you for the answer.

 

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