Mod idea: "Talkback" mod--Expanded PC interjections, PIDs, etc

[Wysdom]

Just an idea I started kicking around last night on my millionth play-through of SoA, no idea how difficult it might be to implement, or if it's even possible, but it seems to me it /should/ be...

It all started when my PC, who can't pass by a beggar in the slums (or anywhere else) to save her life, made a "donation" to the panhandler's guild. And Nalia piped up with a backhanded compliment about my generosity, but couldn't I really afford to give more...? "What are you saving it for? A golden sword?"

 

Since this was in Chapter Two, it was pretty sodding OBVIOUS what I was saving it for... and I felt immensely dissatisfied that I wasn't able to remind her, in no uncertain terms. A few of the responses I imagined went something like this:


1. Actually, Nalia, in case you're just catching up on current events, I'm SAVING it so I can pay [Gaelan Bayle/Bodhi] an extortionate amount of coin to help me find Imoen. Remember Imoen? My foster sister who is very likely, as we speak, locked up with the lunatic mage who tortured her and undergoing chain-lightning therapy to cure her "magical deviance"?

2. Nalia, I want you to know how much I value your input. However, I must ask that any further suggestions pertaining to the dispersal of this party's funds be submitted--notarized and in triplicate--to the Bhaalspawn Weighs and Means Committee no later than the first of the month.

3. Hey, Nalia? How about a tall, frothy mug of shut the Hells up?*

And so on.

Much later, in the Underdark, Jaheira piped up (after Phaere tell's the PC to kill Solaufein) about how we should really explore options other than murder. Now, maybe I'm feeling the character a bit much, but...

1. Jaheira... Every day, I struggle with the taint of Bhaal's bood--a sinister, persistent little voice that endlessly prompts me how simple, how exquisitely EASY it would be to just kill 'em all and let the gods sort 'em out.  And yet--YET--I do EVERYthing possible to avoid killing people, even the ones who go out of their way to throw themselves on my sword. Has this, somehow, escaped your notice?

2. You know, Jaheira, ever since I sprung you from your cage in Chateau Irenicus, I've been running back and forth, willy-nilly, across the breadth of Amn freeing slaves, reuniting families, playing emergency medical transport for random poisoned Harpers, un-tainting Druid groves, and de-treeing kittens. But just now? I was totally about to traipse off and gib Solaufein without a second thought. What would I ever do without you?

3. This sublime grasp of the obvious... tell me, is it a Harper thing?

4. Hey, Jaheira? How about a tall, frothy mug of shut the Hells up?*

*//(Yes, all of the responses in both examples are snarky--and representative only of how I was feeling at the moment, intended to be comic and tongue-and-cheek. They are not representative of a proper array of dialog responses, which would, necessarily, need to provide options (good/neutral/evil/off-the-wall) that allow for different kinds of expression and character.)


I think there are a lot of places in specific to NPC interjections that poor, beleaguered <CHARNAME> should have a chance to talk back--maybe not all of them quite /so/ vitriolic  The idea, of course, would simply be to expand the 'role playing' feel for the player.

I know there are probably 1,001 considerations inherent: option 4 in the Jaheira talkback, above, would doubtless be a romance breaker for the male PC, or at least lead to a serious 'talking to' later. I can see how this mod idea could spiral off into a whole 'additional NPC dialogues' component--where do ya draw the line? The mind boggles.


Which leads me to the idea of PIDs for the Bioware 13. After seeing this done to some extent with the G3 Baldur's Gate NPCs, Xan SoA/ToB, Domi's Kivan, and others, I think non-flirt/non-romance/friendship-path PIDs would be a tremendously enriching component for SoA/ToB. I've often found myself wanting to ask Jan for a story (I know, I'm a masochist, but I LIKE Jan) or, especially during ToB, Keldorn for sage advice.


So, yeah... is this wildly out-of-scope? Am I the only person in the world neurotic enough to find these features attractive? Any reasons it couldn't/shouldn't be done?


Thanks for catching the brain droppings! 

Wysdom


(Edited 2/21/2007 to better explain myself and not seem as though I was suggesting a mod wherein <CHARNAME> is forced to be an arse   )

[Miloch]

Heh.  This is all doable AFAIK.  I have also often found myself wanting to be snarky to some NPC and not being able.  It'd be somewhat similar to BG1NPC though probably not as far-reaching.  But I'm not a master of dialog coding or anything so I can't really say how difficult it'd be.

[jcompton]

This sort of thing gets run up the flagpole every so often, I think the latest shot at it is being run over at Studios now. While it's a reasonable goal, one thing you have to be careful about is equating "every single dialogue in the game" with "an opportunity for the PC to get in a pithy last word." Yes, it's your game and you're the ostensible party leader and portraying the godspawn and on and on, but if the game becomes entirely about you/your character displaying conversational one-upmanship, the whole point of having distinctive personalities in the gameworld is lost because they're all just your stooges, setting you up for punchlines.

[Wysdom]

An excellent cautionary note, jcompton I completely agree, though I guess from the content/examples in my post it might appear I had more "chance for PC to snark" content in mind.

While I enjoy a good snark every so often, and the instances I cited seem like (to me) places where that should be an option, there should definitely be more to it--a lot more--if the end goal is to expand RP and character development. Part of what makes the BG series so great is the depth and difference of character woven into the NPCs, and--whether the "talkback" is initiated with a snark, polite question, joke or lament, etc--ideally I'd want to see it open up a dialog that is true to, and deepens, the story/characterizations of PC and NPC both.

I'll check out what's going on over at Studios, though. Thanks!

Wysdom

[SixOfSpades]

I think the greatest "need" for more conversation options are where the existing dialogue is railroaded down a very limited number of possible outcomes--that is, you cannot roleplay. A Solo Sorcerer who's halfway through his ToB levels while still in Chapter 5 will--no matter which option he chooses--be told to shut up by Adalon, and there's nothing he can do or say about it. The most irredeemably Evil black-hearted Necromancer cannot even suggest to the Lesser Demon Lord that they should be on the same side. The result with Saladrex is always exactly the same. You will always fall beneath the barbed tongue of Lady Delcia. Etc, etc, etc.

[Kulyok]

As long as it doesn't limit already available choices, certainly, it's a great idea. In your Jaheira's example, though, all four replies are barbed, not one is supporting or neutral - so PC is forced to be rude, no matter what their own thoughts on the matter are. It may turn out like the "Negotiating Reward" component of the Quest Pack: yes, it is now possible to negotiate the reward, but it is no longer possible to go the original route and just threaten Vithal to get it all.

[Nythrun]

There's also the option where you prevent NPC interjections from piping up in scenarios that don't merit them - I've been meaning for ages to mess with the script to Nalia's keep so she doesn't blurt out the "How are we helping the less fortunate trudging around here." line when we're clearing an invading army off of her family's land.

[Wysdom]

*lol* I feel you, Nythrun. I had Domi's Kivan with me for the first time in Suldenesselar (I'm SURE I misspelled that) the other night, and he complained bitterly that he hated the city as it was "a symptom of man's excesses" or something similar. I've also noted Nalia's "trudging around in here" environment commentary while clearing out her keep--both gave me quite a giggle, but they can definitely jerk you out of the moment.

Kulyok--I very much agree about giving at /least/ three (good/neutral/evil--and usually any other weird flavour, just for variety) different response choices whenever possible. It certainly wouldn't be RP if all the responses railroaded the player into being a bitter smart ass   My examples weren't meant to represent the actual array of responses--just the ones that sprang to mind, for me, at that moment. One would be more than sufficient to represent the Snark Side in an actual dialog, and would have to be balanced with other options.

*heh* I think that I probably need to edit the post to reflect that.  Anyhoo--we're on the same page, methinks

Best wishes,

Wysdom

[berelinde]

I'm not sure how you could possibly alter that. The D'Arnise Keep is flagged as a dungeon, so Nalia makes dungeon noises. Suldanessellar (I can't spell it either) is flagged as a city, so Kivan makes city noises.

I figure it's good for a chuckle.

The worst of them all was right after Khalid accidentally snuffed it in a dungeon, and Jaheira was wailing in grief, and Gavin's totally random dungeon line came up "There's nothing between me and the open sky but a lot of dirt and rock." I wanted to strangle him, and he's my own NPC.

[jcompton]

You could patch Nalia's soundset to a blank line for dungeon comment while she's in the Keep, then patch it back when she leaves. (See how Anomen gets his CN soundset for more on how this works.) Although it's something of a silly design oversight, it's equally silly to let that be the one thing that ruins the enjoyment of the game.

[Nythrun]

Yep

But more contextual choices are welcome.

[cmorgan]

You could patch Nalia's soundset to a blank line for dungeon comment while she's in the Keep, then patch it back when she leaves. (See how Anomen gets his CN soundset for more on how this works.) Although it's something of a silly design oversight, it's equally silly to let that be the one thing that ruins the enjoyment of the game.

Now *that* is a cool use of an in-game-dialogue stringfixer combined with a script -- pity we can't get new voiced lines, but you could always pop in more appropriate unvoiced lines!