Author Topic: Walking Speeds (split from Stratagems)  (Read 6524 times)

Offline SimDing0™

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Walking Speeds (split from Stratagems)
« on: July 28, 2006, 07:51:12 AM »
The Walking Speed component is pretty horrible and it would really make a lot of sense to take it out of Tutufix and put it in Tutu Tweaks since that's a "last in the install order" affair.

Offline CamDawg

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Re: Sword Coast Strategems
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2006, 08:36:29 AM »
I've just about got BG2 Tweaks v1 ready to go--would you like me to go ahead and add Walking Speeds to it?
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Offline SimDing0™

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Re: Sword Coast Strategems
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2006, 08:46:00 AM »
Yeh, by all means go ahead. However, there's still the problem with shapeshifting--it's probably not reliable enough for you to incorporate it without, uh, somebody doing a bit of work on it.

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Re: Sword Coast Strategems
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2006, 08:46:58 AM »
Also it requires Vlad's fixpack.

Offline CamDawg

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Re: Sword Coast Strategems
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2006, 09:04:46 AM »
Heh.
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Offline cmorgan

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Re: Sword Coast Strategems
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2006, 11:24:44 AM »
Hey, I am around this afternoon, and need to take a break from playing with TRA and matching variables with their associated actions/dialogues. I think it would be great to have the Walking Speeds component placed in the TweakPack; it would save a component install on BG1NPC and mean it could be flagged. If there is grunt work to be done on this (for a slightly clueless but very determined dude like myself) to make this happen, please PM me with the tasks and I will do them. I'll even throw in the appropriale "Yes, Me Lord" sound effect from the Warcraft 3 peasant :)

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Re: Sword Coast Strategems
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2006, 11:31:09 AM »
The grunt work would be "install it and figure out what doesn't work". Things to look out for are points where the walking speed should CHANGE--this means Haste, Slow, Grease, Polymorph Self, shapeshifting, etc.

Offline Andyr

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Re: Sword Coast Strategems
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2006, 11:53:05 AM »
As an aside, are there known issues with effects changing speed with particular animations? I have had users report that Haste does not function on Mur'Neth when he is polymorphed into an ooze, although I am not certain whether this is really true or it is just that the ooze is normally noticeably slower than others, even when Hasted.
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Offline cmorgan

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Re: Sword Coast Strategems
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2006, 12:51:34 PM »
Request to moderator -- we somehow hijacked this thread - please move us to a new one, so DavidW can get feedback...


The grunt work would be "install it and figure out what doesn't work". Things to look out for are points where the walking speed should CHANGE--this means Haste, Slow, Grease, Polymorph Self, shapeshifting, etc.

OK, if I understand what is needed, I put in a clean install of EasyTutu_TOB, add the TutuFix v17 Walking Speeds component, then test a shapeshifting character (a PC, I assume -- unless you want me to give Jaheira or Faldorn a shapeshifting kit) and have an NPC cast Haste, Slow, Grease, Polymorph Self, shapeshifting, etc, testing to see if the speed of the PC changes while shifted.

what is Vlad's fixpack (or is this a joke in the vein of "fixes? We don't need no stieenking fixes!"), and where in the order does it go?


Offline Macready

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Re: Sword Coast Strategems
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2006, 01:31:25 PM »
Hello -

what is Vlad's fixpack (or is this a joke in the vein of "fixes? We don't need no stieenking fixes!"), and where in the order does it go?

Sim's comment was sarcastically referring to a bit of stupidity presently at work in the IE community.  Don't let it distract you, and for god's sake don't go looking for it.
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Offline cmorgan

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Re: Walking Speeds (split from Stratagems)
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2006, 02:33:01 PM »
Understood...

and avoided. I'm back to tracking down and crossreferencing variables, 'til I get confirmation you folks want Walking Speeds checked this way (and not Rogue Avatars, rebalanced shapeshifters, etc. components added).  The minute Andyr, Sim, or Cam say "go", it hits the top of the priority order.

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Re: Walking Speeds (split from Stratagems)
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2006, 02:40:01 PM »
You had it correctly. Record whether the speed changes for each one, whether it changes to something visually appropriate, and whether it changes back (to the same as it was originally) when the effect expires. Also consider examining stacking effects, such as grease plus haste.

(Oh, thanks for your help!)

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Re: Walking Speeds (split from Stratagems)
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2006, 06:03:34 PM »
Cmorgan: Thanks for everything, because I've not said it enough! :) Your diligence has meant we've got an awful lot more done recently than we would've otherwise.
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Offline cmorgan

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Re: Walking Speeds (split from Stratagems)
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2006, 06:29:31 PM »
OK, got it: I will try it out. I may get some time this weekend (if I am lucky) but if not, I can dedicate Monday a.m. to check it out.

Andyr, that's all good - thanks for the thanks, but you folks put in hundreds (thousands) of unthanked/upaid hours getting my favorite game to do impossible things. It is definitely a great feeling to be able to help!

Offline cmorgan

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Re: Walking Speeds (split from Stratagems)
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2006, 11:52:29 AM »
Walking Speeds Component Test

Purpose: Test Walking Speeds component for problems before integration into BG2 Tweak Pack v1. Specifically, test the behaviors of Haste, Slow, Grease, Polymorph Self, and shapeshifting under various conditions.

Test bed: standard "base install": EasyTutu_TOB (latest version), ETT Degreenifyer, ETT Kits, 1PP.

Scale: with walking speeds component installed, set speeds by initial test, then divide into WICKED SLOW, SLOW, DEFAULT, FAST, WICKED FAST (5 point Likert Scale, for Andyr's PhD amusement).

Condition: PASSED = seems like expected behavior FAILED = unexpected behavior.

Test Procedure:
1. Placed TutuFix v17 Walking Speeds component last in install order to make sure all creatures are modified.
2. Started new game and created PC Druid Shapeshifter kit.
3. In Candlekeep, CLUAConsoled CreateCreature Dynaheir, and added 10,000 xp to both characters to get another shapeshift slot and allow for more casting to see if scroll vs cast makes a diffference for some unfathomable reason.
4. Saved game, and edited in scrolls (_scroll.itm versions only; standard Tutu scrolls, no BG2 versions) of Polymorph Self, Haste, Slow, Grease, Dispel Magic.

Results:
Dy and PC run around to set baseline for travel between two points. Equal speed (default). PASSED.
Dy casts Haste on PC from scroll, both run around. Equal speed (fast). Icon present. PASSED.
PC shapeshifts while hasted, both run around. Equal speed (fast).PASSED.
Dy casts Dispel Magic from scroll, both run around. Equal speed (default). Icon disappears. PASSED.
Dy casts Haste on shapeshifted PC from scroll, both run around. Equal speed (fast). Icon present. PASSED.
Party waits for effects to expire, then run around. Equal speed (default). Icon disappears. PASSED.
PC shifts back to human form, then run around. Equal speed (default). PASSED.

Dy casts Slow on PC, both run around. Equal speed (FAILED. DEFAULT SPEED). No Icon present, though text says they are both slowed.
PC shapeshifts while "slowed", both run around. Equal speed (FAILED DEFAULT SPEED). no Icon.
Dy casts Dispel Magic from scroll, both run around. Equal speed (DEFAULT). no Icon. PASSED.
Dy casts slow on shapeshifted PC from scroll, both run around. Equal speed (FAILED. DEFAULT SPEED). no Icon present.
Saving the game and checking for affects showled only 0x00B0 Param 1 = -3

Dy casts Grease on PC from scroll, both run around. Equal speed (wicked slow). No Icon present. PASSED.
PC shapeshifts while Greased, both run around. Equal speed (wicked slow). PASSED.
Both characters fail and make saving throws in and out of form (Dy using Polymorph self), both run around. Equal speed (wicked slow when failed save, default when made save) for human form PASSED.

but weird results for Polymorph Self:

Wolf form (FAILED),Spider Form (FAILED), Ogre form (FAILED): expected behavior for failing saves. Same speed as PC whether shapeshifted or not (wicked slow) when failed save. BUT all forms have the "hasted" icon and were faster than PC default when made save; I do not believe that is intended behavior of the spell.

Mustard Jelly: (FAILED). shapeshifting into this form has the correct behavior when failed save, but icon is "hasted", and Dy in this form moves like a bat out of hell (FAILED. OFF TOP OF SCALE). I mean, hasted as in BG2 hasted, run the whole map in less time then it takes to say "way overpowered and quicker than anything". The last time I saw something this fast it was Baronious' TGCep1 Hasted WindWalkers, which live up to their name. Andyr, if there was any doubt abot the mustard jelly or ooze animations not working under haste, forget it. The thing was pepped up on some serious Starbucks Venti-Triple-Shot-Mocha-Espresso wade with Jolt Cola and Red Bull instead of water and milk. Since the form has magic resistance, it did not fall back under the Grease spell (new mage tactic for me. I never thought of using a magic resistant form to avoid spell effects. I need to read more fantasy literature about wizard duels, instead of relying on Jack Vance).

Bear form (FAILED) has hasted Icon, but acts as wicked slow, with no spell in effect.
Flind form (FAILED) has hasted icon, but acts as slowed with animation legs going running speed and form taking twice as long to cross the distance as either shifted or normal PC.

Dy cast Dispel magic while polymorphed into each of these forms from a scroll (something I thought not possible) - each time the hasted icon disappeared, with a hardly noticeable reduction in speed for the Mustard Jelly, Flind, etc. Since the Bear speed appears to be 1, there was no effect. Casting Dispel Magic did NOT dispell the shapeshifting spell or force her back into human form. FAILED.

Each reversion to human form put Dynaheir back to default speed, as did expiry of the effects. PASSED.

I was unable to test the effect of haste on a gray ooze because its magic resistance made it impossible to effect over multiple tries, and I felt it would be better to report these findings before editing in a special .cre to test, since there are some fixes needed at least for the Polymorph Self side of things.

As a side note, the latest versions of NI (NearInfinity-1.33b19-1.jar) seem to indicate that all joined characters are *charbase. It may have to do with EasyTutu, as a heads up for Macready... I had to get the results from DLTCEP and cross check with ShadowKeeper. I seem to remember discussing this before, but I can't remember. The rest of NI works fine, though.

Preliminary conclusions and request for extension:
Shapeshifting to base Werewolf form in a Druid PC evidenced no problems with Haste and Grease, but both PC and NPC were not slowed when a party member cast Slow on them. This could be a strange thing where the engine might not allow harmful effects to be cast on the PC and party members when not hostile, but my (useless, uninformed) observation is that it is more likely that something is checking the affects and considering the characters already slowed, thus not applying the spell; otherwise, you could stack slows up and stop actors from moving. Polymorph Self is definitely messed up; since I do not use it, could someone please respond if they have the same behavior when Walking Speeds is NOT installed? All we need to know is if a character or NPC in a Tutu game using this spell/scroll without the walking speeds component installed shows up as hasted as well as polymorphed.


Hope this helps :)

Offline Andyr

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Re: Walking Speeds (split from Stratagems)
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2006, 12:17:07 PM »
Scale: with walking speeds component installed, set speeds by initial test, then divide into WICKED SLOW, SLOW, DEFAULT, FAST, WICKED FAST (5 point Likert Scale, for Andyr's PhD amusement).

Heheh.

Mustard Jelly: (FAILED). shapeshifting into this form has the correct behavior when failed save, but icon is "hasted", and Dy in this form moves like a bat out of hell (FAILED. OFF TOP OF SCALE). I mean, hasted as in BG2 hasted, run the whole map in less time then it takes to say "way overpowered and quicker than anything". The last time I saw something this fast it was Baronious' TGCep1 Hasted WindWalkers, which live up to their name. Andyr, if there was any doubt abot the mustard jelly or ooze animations not working under haste, forget it. The thing was pepped up on some serious Starbucks Venti-Triple-Shot-Mocha-Espresso wade with Jolt Cola and Red Bull instead of water and milk. Since the form has magic resistance, it did not fall back under the Grease spell (new mage tactic for me. I never thought of using a magic resistant form to avoid spell effects. I need to read more fantasy literature about wizard duels, instead of relying on Jack Vance).

Interesting--I will have to see why Mur'Neth has been reported as not being Haste-able, then. Thanks!
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Offline cmorgan

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Re: Walking Speeds (split from Stratagems)
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2006, 01:18:37 PM »
Well, it wasn't quick enough to make the TweakPack release... understandable, given the amount of stuff going on/going wrong this past weekend! Please let me know what I can do to help get this operable. I definitely use this component of TutuFix, and it most definitely adds to the experience.

Offline cmorgan

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Re: Walking Speeds (split from Stratagems)
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2007, 03:31:48 PM »
Quick check in on this topic to get a status report on Walking Speeds...

yep,it is an old topic but one near and dear to my heart :)

 

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