Hellion kit now available

[Wounded_Lion]

The Hellion Fighter-kit mod is available now at:

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/aWL_BG2_forum/files/

and at IEGMC:

http://iegmc.mirror.intermedia.com.sg/awoundedlion
ftp://mirror.intermedia.com.sg/pub/iegmc/awoundedlion
http://iegmc.tiefighter.org/awoundedlion
http://america.iegmc.net/awoundedlion

As always, feedback is welcome.  Bear in mind that the kit is essentially a Paladin of Hell, so direct your comparisons to the Paladin class (*not* the Fighter class).


------ HELLION ------

This mod is designed for BGII-SOA with TOB and should be compatible with most other WeiDU mods.

Please direct any questions or comments to:  aWoundedLion@yahoo.com

I am particularly pleased with the 'anti-ethos' (mastery of any bladed weapon, proficiency of any non-bladed weapon).  Tis Evil.   

a Wounded Lion


--- HELLION ---

The Hellion is a fierce warrior who honors the Dark Prince of the Hells.  He or she respects strength, power, and cunning above all else.  The Hellion is a student of the Black Arts and may summon Demonic allies to his side in battle (though these are apt to turn on the Hellion if he or she has not cast protective magics).

ADVANTAGES

Immune to Death Magic

May cast Protection From Evil once per day per level

May cast Banish once per day per level

Lv12  May cast Death Spell once per day
Lv14  May cast Cacofiend once per day
Lv16  May cast Summon Fiend once per day
Lv18  May cast Gate once per day
Lv20  May cast Summon Dark Planetar once per day

DISADVANTAGES

Must be Lawful Evil

Must be Human, Half-Elf, or Half-Orc

May not Dual-Class except to Mage

May not place more than three proficiency points into any bladed weapon

May not place more than one proficiency point into any non-bladed weapon

NOTES

Banish

Level: 1
Range: 50
Duration: Instant
Casting Time: 1
Area of Effect: 1 Summoned Demon
Saving Throw: None

This spell banishes a summoned Demon back to the Hells.

[Wounded_Lion]

If you haven't noticed from this kit and the Arcane Archer, I *love* warriors (Fighters) that possess the ability to cast magic of a particular type.  Also, I forgot to mention that the Hellion has a custom HLA table (it is identical to the Fighter HLA table except that it contains Summon Dark Planetar).

a W.L.

[Rabain]

I like the idea.  Some of the disadvantages just don't read as true disadvantages to me if compared to a Paladin:

- Must be Human, Half-Elf, or Half-Orc ( Not so much a disadvantage considering the player must only be human if playing as an Paladin)

- Can Dual-class to mage (this is an advantage if we are sticking with comparing to Paladins)

- May not place more than three proficiency points into any bladed weapon (Paladins only get two, this is somewhat balanced by the next disadvantage you mention but considering evil is going for damage, most people would go bladed weapons anyway.)

I could live with all of the disadvantages if the spells he gets to cast at lvls 12,14,16,18 and 20 replaced each other rather than where all abilities he gained.  Because even though the summon could turn on the Hellion he can always Banish it if it does.  Banish once every 5 or 6 lvls would be better.  Also remember that if the player decided to Dual at level 20 he could still have all the summons and eventually have all the mage summoning spells too though in fairness not many players would dual at level 20!

Question: Does Banish work on Demons summoned by others?  If it does then Banish once per day per level is way overpowered, it would make all Demon summons meaningless.

Good stuff, keep it up!

[Wounded_Lion]

Must be Human, Half-Elf, or Half-Orc ( Not so much a disadvantage considering the player must only be human if playing as an Paladin)

I know that this is not a true disadvantage, but Bioware convention is to include racial limitations in the Disadvantages section.  Also, because the kit is a Fighter kit, this is technically a limitation and should be listed in the Disadvantages section.

Can Dual-class to mage (this is an advantage if we are sticking with comparing to Paladins)

Same as above.

May not place more than three proficiency points into any bladed weapon (Paladins only get two, this is somewhat balanced by the next disadvantage you mention but considering evil is going for damage, most people would go bladed weapons anyway.)

Same as above.  Plus, I love the idea of a preference for lethal, bladed weapons (anti-ethos).   

I could live with all of the disadvantages if the spells he gets to cast at lvls 12,14,16,18 and 20 replaced each other rather than where all abilities he gained.  Because even though the summon could turn on the Hellion he can always Banish it if it does.  Banish once every 5 or 6 lvls would be better.  Also remember that if the player decided to Dual at level 20 he could still have all the summons and eventually have all the mage summoning spells too though in fairness not many players would dual at level 20!

Question: Does Banish work on Demons summoned by others?  If it does then Banish once per day per level is way overpowered, it would make all Demon summons meaningless.

Banish works on *any* summoned Demon (and I like it that way).  I may consider granting Banish less frequently (every 4 levels starting at Lv4, perhaps?).

Thank you for your feedback, Rabain.  I appreciate it.

 

a Wounded Lion

[notasophist]

I don't see why Hellion has the ability to cast Death spell. True it's an antii-summon spell, but demonic summoning is different (gating) from standard conjuration.

[Wounded_Lion]

I don't see why Hellion has the ability to cast Death spell. True it's an antii-summon spell, but demonic summoning is different (gating) from standard conjuration.

True, but I wanted to add a Necromantic touch to the kit.  And I thought that it would be good to gain a spell a tad earlier than Lv14.

a W.L.

[notasophist]

True, but I wanted to add a Necromantic touch to the kit.  And I thought that it would be good to gain a spell a tad earlier than Lv14.

a W.L.

Fari enough, but you should justify why a Necromantic touch is essentail to the kit. Methinks getting a summon nishru (sp) or introducing an imp familiar at lvl12 may work better instead.

[Bex]

imp familiar at lvl12

I like this idea. It would have to be implemented like a beastmaster ranger though, right? Something you could cast once per day, even if you'd ideally only cast it once in your life?

Another alternative is to add a vampiric touch once per day in place of the death spell. I don't think that would be useless, or overpowered, and it makes sense as a very literal necromantic touch that works well with a warrior. If you went that route, you could maybe throw in once per day chill touch and ghoul touch at earlier levels too (4 and 8?). Those might be nice for TuTu players, but again, not terribly overpowered I think.

It's a neat kit. I might even be willing to play evil to try this one out, and I never play an evil character.

[Wounded_Lion]

imp familiar at lvl12

I like this idea. It would have to be implemented like a beastmaster ranger though, right? Something you could cast once per day, even if you'd ideally only cast it once in your life?

I like the idea of an imp familiar, but it might be difficult to implement.  I could easily give the Hellion Find Familiar as a one-cast innate ability that disappears completely after casting.  However, past attempts to grant familiars to non-Mage classes and kits has resulted in an odd disappearing familiar bug (this usually happens after cutscenes).

Another alternative is to add a vampiric touch once per day in place of the death spell. I don't think that would be useless, or overpowered, and it makes sense as a very literal necromantic touch that works well with a warrior. If you went that route, you could maybe throw in once per day chill touch and ghoul touch at earlier levels too (4 and 8?). Those might be nice for TuTu players, but again, not terribly overpowered I think.

Good ideas (I've had similiar myself), but these things are better to suited to a seperate undead-warrior kit than to the Hellion kit.  A warrior that gains progressively better touch-style attacks could be interesting.

It's a neat kit. I might even be willing to play evil to try this one out, and I never play an evil character.

Thank you.   

a W.L.

*edited for grammar*

[Rabain]

Fair enough with listing the Disadvantages in the Disadvantages section.  It still doesn't answer the question of how these are actual disadvantages when comparing with a Paladin.

Anyway lets look at Banish:  you want it to work on all summoned Demons, I have no problem with that.  Giving it as an ability that can be used more than once a day is too much. Even with every 4th lvl he would be able to Banish 4 summoned demons at level 16, when do you meet 4 summoned demons at any one time in the game or in any one day? Banish once per day is enough, at least this way if someone did summon another Demon the party would have to fight.  As it stands with Banish, summoned demons are just a waste of enemy summoners time and we all know the AI is not the best at dealing with different situations even at the best of times.  Demon summons should be one of the most powerful spells an enemy caster can use, it is wholly negated by Banish.

Likewise with the Advantage of being able to summon multiple types of demons, not only can the Hellion summon 4 different types of summons per day to aid him in battle but he can also Banish them if they turn on him.  This makes the fact that sometimes demons do turn on the caster pointless.

If we compare him to a fighter what does he lose?  He loses Grand Mastery but in its place gains Prot. From Evil, Banish and the ability to summon minions.  Protection from Evil should be once per day as well.  This guy is not a Paladin and should not have Prot. From Evil anyway, it would seem the only reason it is there is to protect him from his own summons turning on him.  With Prot. from Evil and Banish he is essentially immune to Demons.

That is not quite balanced in my opinion but then if that is the kit as you want it, work away!  I'm more of an under-powergamer myself so maybe I'm going overboard on the abilities your kit has, sorry!

[Wounded_Lion]

Fari enough, but you should justify why a Necromantic touch is essentail to the kit. Methinks getting a summon nishru (sp) or introducing an imp familiar at lvl12 may work better instead.

See my comments about the imp familiar idea above.

Instead of being a half-cleric-half-fighter (like the Paladin), the Hellion is a half-mage-half-fighter (if that makes any sense ).  To be the specific, the half-mage part is part-Necromancer (lesser) and part-Demon-specific-Conjurer (greater).  These are largely conceptual decisions (in other words, what I want the kit to be).

Plus Death Spell makes for a nice counterpart to Immunity to Death Magic.

a W.L.

*edited for grammar*

[Hide and Seek]

Aren't all Demons summoned? At least those on Faerun, perhaps the "Banish" spell wohn't work at Bhaal's Throne, and hopefully not in Watcher's Keep, the residence of summoned Demons.

Please, let only those summoned by the wizard or priest spells be affected, not those who already are there, is that possible?
I must say, even though I despise those modified Pit Fiends who always goes invisible unless you give them something to fight with, I wouldn't wish to be able to just get rid of them like that. (no exp for banished Demons, then) Or perhaps even an exp loss for using it.

[Wounded_Lion]

Aren't all Demons summoned? At least those on Faerun, perhaps the "Banish" spell wohn't work at Bhaal's Throne, and hopefully not in Watcher's Keep, the residence of summoned Demons.

Please, let only those summoned by the wizard or priest spells be affected, not those who already are there, is that possible?
I must say, even though I despise those modified Pit Fiends who always goes invisible unless you give them something to fight with, I wouldn't wish to be able to just get rid of them like that. (no exp for banished Demons, then) Or perhaps even an exp loss for using it.

Demons summoned by the Mage or Cleric spells are summoned (gender: SUMMONED_DEMON).  Banish will banish these.  Demon enemies encountered in-game are not summoned (gender: whatever).  Banish will not banish these.  Banish does not give experience points for banishing Demons.

At least this is how I think that it works.  lol  I will verify this again (I did some basic testing but I'll have a more in-depth look at these aspects).

a W.L.

[Hide and Seek]

Aren't all Demons summoned? At least those on Faerun, perhaps the "Banish" spell wohn't work at Bhaal's Throne, and hopefully not in Watcher's Keep, the residence of summoned Demons.

Please, let only those summoned by the wizard or priest spells be affected, not those who already are there, is that possible?
I must say, even though I despise those modified Pit Fiends who always goes invisible unless you give them something to fight with, I wouldn't wish to be able to just get rid of them like that. (no exp for banished Demons, then) Or perhaps even an exp loss for using it.

Demons summoned by the Mage or Cleric spells are summoned (gender: SUMMONED_DEMON).  Banish will banish these.  Demon enemies encountered in-game are not summoned (gender: whatever).  Banish will not banish these.  Banish does not give experience points for banishing Demons.

At least this is how I think that it works.  lol  I will verify this again (I did some basic testing but I'll have a more in-depth look at these aspects).

a W.L.

I fear I went a touch too realistic, started to wonder: If you don't summon a Demon, where does it then come from? 
Anyway, back to game rules. Let me only ask you these last questions before I leave you to your posting.

1) Will there be an XP loss for using "Banish"
2) Will the enemies be able to cause a "Casting Failure" / How long does it take to cast a Banish Spell?
3) No question down here. I just like the class - type, we need more of those Celestial / Abyssal - related things.

[Wounded_Lion]

Anyway lets look at Banish...

I appreciate your thoughts and will keep them in mind as I consider revisions.  I'll post a reply sooner or later, but I must leave the computer for now (kung-fu class starts soon).  Thank you for giving me something to think about.

a W.L.

[Andyr]

Bioware convention is to include racial limitations in the Disadvantages section.

I can't think of any BioWare kits with racial restrictions...

[Wounded_Lion]

I can't think of any BioWare kits with racial restrictions...

Hmm...  perhaps that was just something that I assumed, then.  Not sure.

a W.L.

[Bex]

Bioware convention is to include racial limitations in the Disadvantages section.

I can't think of any BioWare kits with racial restrictions...

Specialist mages. Which either are or aren't kits, depending how you look at it.

[Andyr]

Good point--but racial restrictions there are IIRC not mentioned in the kit descriptions.

What we do in Divine Remix and Song and Silence at G3 is to write racial or alignment restrictions in a short sentence before the Advantages and Disadvantages sections.

[Wounded_Lion]

Version 2 of the Hellion kit mod is available now at my Yahoo! forum and will be available soon at IEGMC.  The filename is HellionV2.rar.

 

a W.L.


------ HELLION ------

This mod is designed for BGII-SOA with TOB and should be compatible with most other WeiDU mods.

Please direct any questions or comments to:  aWoundedLion@yahoo.com

--- HELLION ---

The Hellion is a fierce warrior who honors the Dark Prince of the Hells.  He or she respects strength, power, and cunning above all else.  The Hellion is a student of the Black Arts and may summon Demonic allies to his side in battle (though these are apt to turn on the Hellion if he or she has not cast protective magics).

ADVANTAGES

Immune to Death Magic

May cast Protection From Evil once per day per level

May cast Banish once per day every four levels starting at Lv4

Lv12  May cast Death Spell once per day
Lv14  May cast Cacofiend once per day
Lv16  May cast Summon Fiend once per day
Lv18  May cast Gate once per day
Lv20  May cast Summon Dark Planetar once per day

DISADVANTAGES

Must be Lawful Evil

May not Dual-Class except to Mage or Thief

May not place more than three proficiency points into any bladed weapon

May not place more than one proficiency point into any non-bladed weapon

NOTES

Banish

Level: Special
Range: 50
Duration: Instant
Casting Time: 1
Area of Effect: 1 Summoned Demon
Saving Throw: None

This spell banishes a summoned Demon back to the Abyss.

[Wounded_Lion]

Fair enough with listing the Disadvantages in the Disadvantages section.  It still doesn't answer the question of how these are actual disadvantages when comparing with a Paladin.

They are not disadvantages when compared to the Paladin.  But again, since the kit is a Fighter kit (not a Paladin kit), I felt it necessary to list them as such.  The Hellion is a Paladin in concept only (not in implementation).

Anyway lets look at Banish:  you want it to work on all summoned Demons, I have no problem with that.  Giving it as an ability that can be used more than once a day is too much. Even with every 4th lvl he would be able to Banish 4 summoned demons at level 16, when do you meet 4 summoned demons at any one time in the game or in any one day? Banish once per day is enough, at least this way if someone did summon another Demon the party would have to fight.  As it stands with Banish, summoned demons are just a waste of enemy summoners time and we all know the AI is not the best at dealing with different situations even at the best of times.  Demon summons should be one of the most powerful spells an enemy caster can use, it is wholly negated by Banish.

Banish once per level was waaay too much, I'll admit.  But I think that once every four levels starting at Lv4 is balanced.  I do not think that the spell is overpowered.  Protection From Evil is a Lv1 spell and will completely protect a character from summoned Demons.  In comparison, Banish is now gained at Lv4 and simply removes the Demon from the battlefield (a comparable effect).

Likewise with the Advantage of being able to summon multiple types of demons, not only can the Hellion summon 4 different types of summons per day to aid him in battle but he can also Banish them if they turn on him.  This makes the fact that sometimes demons do turn on the caster pointless.

The Hellion specializes in Demon-specific conjuration.  I think its appropriate that the Hellion be highly skilled in this regard.  Demon summoning spells are not gained until Lv14, and that's a looong time to train / prepare.

If we compare him to a fighter what does he lose?  He loses Grand Mastery but in its place gains Prot. From Evil, Banish and the ability to summon minions.  Protection from Evil should be once per day as well.  This guy is not a Paladin and should not have Prot. From Evil anyway, it would seem the only reason it is there is to protect him from his own summons turning on him.  With Prot. from Evil and Banish he is essentially immune to Demons.

If I were a Hellion, the first spell that I would learn would be Protection From Evil.  The Hellion isn't stupid, after all (the kit requires a minimum 9 Intelligence).

That is not quite balanced in my opinion but then if that is the kit as you want it, work away!  I'm more of an under-powergamer myself so maybe I'm going overboard on the abilities your kit has, sorry!

No apology necessary.  I appreciate your feedback.  I am a teeny bit of a power-gamer myself (that's why I like feedback:  to tone down my ridiculously powerful creations  ).

a W.L.

[Wounded_Lion]

I fear I went a touch too realistic, started to wonder: If you don't summon a Demon, where does it then come from? 
Anyway, back to game rules. Let me only ask you these last questions before I leave you to your posting.

1) Will there be an XP loss for using "Banish"
2) Will the enemies be able to cause a "Casting Failure" / How long does it take to cast a Banish Spell?
3) No question down here. I just like the class - type, we need more of those Celestial / Abyssal - related things.

1.) No.  I feel that no experience gained is balanced.
2.) Casting time is 1.  It would be very difficult to interrupt the spell.
3.) Thank you.  A Celestial-related class would be interesting.  But there aren't many Celestial summonings that I can think of...  (other than Summon Planetar/Deva).

a W.L.

[Wounded_Lion]

Available now at my Yahoo! forum and soon at IEGMC:

The Special Andyr/Kish/Big-Rob Edition of the Hellion kit!    The changes implemented in Version 3 are mostly cosmetic and render the kit description more accurate in terms of PnP D&D.

a Wounded Lion

------ HELLION ------

This mod is designed for BGII-SOA with TOB and should be compatible with most other WeiDU mods.

Please direct any questions or comments to:  aWoundedLion@yahoo.com

--- HELLION ---

The Hellion is a fierce warrior who honors the Dark Prince of the Hells.  He or she respects strength, power, and cunning above all else.  The Hellion is a student of the Black Arts and may summon Fiends to his side in battle (though these are apt to turn on the Hellion if he or she has not cast protective magics).

ADVANTAGES

Immune to Death Magic

May cast Protection From Evil once per day per level

May cast Banish once per day every four levels starting at Lv4

Lv12  May cast Death Spell once per day
Lv14  May cast Cacofiend once per day
Lv16  May cast Summon Fiend once per day
Lv18  May cast Gate once per day
Lv20  May cast Summon Dark Planetar once per day

DISADVANTAGES

Must be of an Evil alignment

May not Dual-Class except to Mage or Thief

May not place more than three proficiency points into any bladed weapon

May not place more than one proficiency point into any non-bladed weapon

NOTES

Banish

Level: Special
Range: 50
Duration: Instant
Casting Time: 1
Area of Effect: 1 Summoned Fiend
Saving Throw: None

This spell banishes a summoned Fiend back to the Lower Planes.