What are your favourite kit choices for Tutu NPCs?

[Bursk]

Since Tutu allows you to select (or not) a kit for each of the 25 NPCs, I thought I'd get the community's views of what kit suits which NPC.

I've had a little think about the thieves in the game, and came up with this:

Alora - Swashbuckler
Imoen - Swashbuckler
Safana - Thief
Skie - Thief

I've only based these decisions on the biographies of each NPC and the description for each kit, so perhaps someone with a better knowledge of the characters can suggest something better.

I also like the 'Make Khalid a Fighter-Mage' and 'Make Montaron an Assassin' components from Tutu Tweak Pack.

Any thoughts on the others?

[Kulyok]

I'm never kitting NPCs - every NPC comes with a story, and changing an NPC class is tweaking with this story, eventually changing a character.

For example, an important part of Tiax' story is that Great Cyric promised he will rule the world. Thus, Tiax is essentially a Priest of Cyric, and making him a simple thief would take a lot from the character's complexity.

Making Dynaheir, for example, anybody but an Invoker also grievously changes the character, in my opinion, as her character is closely tied with Rashemi lore and tradition.

Same goes for Branwen, Imoen, Kivan, etc, etc.

[Bursk]

Bugger!  I made a mistake with Tiax (I thought he was a plain thief to start with).  I've amended my original post.

But wait...can I make a multi-class NPC have a kit?

[Kulyok]

Unfortunately, no - only dual-class, and only the first class. So Tiax is doomed to remain a priest, not a Priest of Cyric.

But perhaps, Tutu Tweaks will amend that? Or Divine Remix? Hmmm...

[Bursk]

Ah, I see.  Seems I've made a real balls-up of my first post. 

I thought I was able to change the thief part of any NPC (even if they're multi-class).  I'll take Coran off the list as well.

[NiGHTMARE]

Don't forget Divine Remix's Battleguard of Tempus kit for Branwen, and Nightcloak of Shar kit for Viconia.

I'm ever hopeful for a Tutu version of Idobek's NPC Kit mod .

[Bursk]

I'm yet to try Cler...I mean, Divine Remix.  I'll have to check it out sometime.

Has the feedback been positive (generally and with regards to Branwen and Viconia's kits)?

[Kulyok]

I've not tried Divine Remix on tutu specifically, I'm afraid - I am testing another mod, and since it's just been updated, I do not want the bugs to overlap.

But from what I read in the readme http://www.gibberlings3.net/readmes/readme-divine_remix.html , it's pretty good.

[Bursk]

I'll have to give it a try when I've next got the game installed.  I'll be sure to contribute to the G3 forum.

[Western Paladin]

I only use three.

Kivan -> Archer
Ajantis -> Cavalier
Skie -> Assassin (yes, really!)

[Grunker]

I'm never kitting NPCs - every NPC comes with a story, and changing an NPC class is tweaking with this story, eventually changing a character.

For example, an important part of Tiax' story is that Great Cyric promised he will rule the world. Thus, Tiax is essentially a Priest of Cyric, and making him a simple thief would take a lot from the character's complexity.

Making Dynaheir, for example, anybody but an Invoker also grievously changes the character, in my opinion, as her character is closely tied with Rashemi lore and tradition.

Same goes for Branwen, Imoen, Kivan, etc, etc.

This is not enitrely true.

For most of the NPC's sure, but for some NPC's BG1 actually lacked something:

Minsc - Described as Berserker from Rashemen, but only has a small (mostly useless) berskerk ability 2/day. The story makes more sense with the berserker kit.

Kivan - Kivan uses a bow, has a note in his biography stating that he is an archer from his elven homelands. Does it makes sense that an archer from the elven forests can't become grandmaster in a bow? Nay, I say, make him a true Archer

Shar'Teel - Like Minsc, this woman is described all the way as a berserker, why not make her one?

Faldorn - Once in a whiloe I get the feeling this woman ought to be an Avenger, due to her violent protection of nature.

Montaron - Surely I do not have to defend making this one an assasin?

This is what I usually change. I usually use Imoen, Minsc, Jaheira, Dynaheir and Minsc in my party, so Minsc is the only one whom I change and use.

[Kulyok]

Minsc - Described as Berserker from Rashemen, but only has a small (mostly useless) berskerk ability 2/day. The story makes more sense with the berserker kit.

But what of his connection to nature, and his close ties with his animal companion? Making him a simple berserker(like Korgan) will lose it all.

Kivan - Kivan uses a bow, has a note in his biography stating that he is an archer from his elven homelands. Does it makes sense that an archer from the elven forests can't become grandmaster in a bow? Nay, I say, make him a true Archer

Mea culpa. I agree fully. (How could I forget?) I never use it for powergaming reasons, though; he is less useful to me as an archer.

Shar'Teel - Like Minsc, this woman is described all the way as a berserker, why not make her one?

Shar-Teel, a berserker? (Are we playing the same game?) No, sorry, but I have to disagree: I do not see her this way. Bloodlusty, yes, but more level-headed and cunning than Minsc or worse, Korgan. Different character interpretation, I suppose.

Faldorn - Once in a whiloe I get the feeling this woman ought to be an Avenger, due to her violent protection of nature.

It very well might be, but I rather see her as very young, and not able to compromise. An Avenger, in my opinion, would be someone older and more purposefully dedicated.

Montaron - Surely I do not have to defend making this one an assasin?

I do not see it as such, mostly because it does not make sense to me that Montaron is not well-endowed as a fighter. This way, both he and Xzar are both unable to defend themselves in an "open field", i.e. none of them is front-line material, and the success of their mission becomes more questionable to me. Sending a mage and a fighter-type makes more sense for the Zhentarim, in my opinion.

This is what I usually change. I usually use Imoen, Minsc, Jaheira, Dynaheir and Minsc in my party, so Minsc is the only one whom I change and use.

You've used double "Minsc", by the way. Did you mean Khalid?

[Bursk]

How could I have forgotten?!  I'm also using Drew's Berserker Minsc mod (currently at v3).  The most useful thing, for me, is that he no longer starts killing your party when berserk.  Here's what the readme says:

'Have you ever looked at Minsc and wondered what bioware was smoking when they set up his abilities?  I have. In fact I've had several gripes about everyone's favorite Ranger.  His rage, for example.  It seems great on the surface until you find out that Minsc is actually more likely to attack your party when enraged than attack your enemies.  Also if you're a PnP lawyer like I am you're probably more than a little annoyed at the fact that Minsc, with his pathetically low wisdom is allowed unfettered spellcasting. This mod seeks to rectify these two issues by:

1.  Fixing his beserker rage.  I brought it more in line with a standard berserker rage.  His rage is now grants +2 to strength and dexterity, 15 extra hit points and all the standard berserker resistances. The duration is now the same as a standard berserker rage.  Minsc does NOT become winded after raging.  He gains his new rages at the same rate as a standard berserker.

2.  Taking away his spell casting.  Minsc can no longer cast spells with this mod installed.

His new kit description is as follows:

BERSERKER:
This is a warrior who is in tune with his animalistic side and, during combat, can acheive an ecstatic state of mind that will enable him to fight longer, harder and more savagely than any human has a right to.  Opponents on the battlefield will be unsettled when they see the savage and inhuman element of the berserker's personality.

Advantages:
May use Enrage ability once per day per 4 levels starting with one use at level 1.  This grants the berserker +2 STR and DEX for 10 rounds.  While enraged, the berserker gains immunity to Charm, Hold, Fear, Maze, Imprisonment, Stun, and Sleep. The berserker also gains 15 temporary HP which are lost at the end of his rage, potentially killing him.

Disadvantages:
The berserker gains no spell casting ability.'

This great tweak mod can be used for both Tutu and BG2.

[NiGHTMARE]

When Minsc became a ranger, he had at least the required wisdom score.  It wasn't until sometime *afterwards* that he suffered damage to his head and his wisdom suffered as a result. If you're a *true* pnp rules lawyer then you won't be annoyed, because you'll know there's no rule that characters who already have a class should lose it just because one of their stats somehow drops below the minimum .

As for his particular brand of berserker range, it seems fairly obviously "inspired" by the berserker rage of the Rashemen warrior Fyodor, from Elaine Cunningham's Starlight & Shadows novels (the first of which was published around the time BG1 was in development).

[Grunker]

Minsc - Described as Berserker from Rashemen, but only has a small (mostly useless) berskerk ability 2/day. The story makes more sense with the berserker kit.

But what of his connection to nature, and his close ties with his animal companion? Making him a simple berserker(like Korgan) will lose it all.

Kivan - Kivan uses a bow, has a note in his biography stating that he is an archer from his elven homelands. Does it makes sense that an archer from the elven forests can't become grandmaster in a bow? Nay, I say, make him a true Archer

Mea culpa. I agree fully. (How could I forget?) I never use it for powergaming reasons, though; he is less useful to me as an archer.

Shar'Teel - Like Minsc, this woman is described all the way as a berserker, why not make her one?

Shar-Teel, a berserker? (Are we playing the same game?) No, sorry, but I have to disagree: I do not see her this way. Bloodlusty, yes, but more level-headed and cunning than Minsc or worse, Korgan. Different character interpretation, I suppose.

Faldorn - Once in a whiloe I get the feeling this woman ought to be an Avenger, due to her violent protection of nature.

It very well might be, but I rather see her as very young, and not able to compromise. An Avenger, in my opinion, would be someone older and more purposefully dedicated.

Montaron - Surely I do not have to defend making this one an assasin?

I do not see it as such, mostly because it does not make sense to me that Montaron is not well-endowed as a fighter. This way, both he and Xzar are both unable to defend themselves in an "open field", i.e. none of them is front-line material, and the success of their mission becomes more questionable to me. Sending a mage and a fighter-type makes more sense for the Zhentarim, in my opinion.

This is what I usually change. I usually use Imoen, Minsc, Jaheira, Dynaheir and Minsc in my party, so Minsc is the only one whom I change and use.

You've used double "Minsc", by the way. Did you mean Khalid?

Yes I meant Khalid, sorry

You make some interesting points indeed.

Faldorn: Well, I don't agree with you here. I actually thought Avengers to be young.

Shar'Teel: If the Berserker from BG2 had been an onslaughtering force of frenzy I'd agree with you, but it is not. Shar'Teel has the ability (and cunning, as you say) to use her anger for her own purpose. Therefore, the Berserker kit suits her I think.

Montaron: Well, this, I think, is a discussion we could continue for ages because it isn't thougroully described in the game. My argument would have to be that I don't picture the two as being someone who charges into battle, I picture them as someone who rarely meets enemies in the open. And as for the Zhentarim, I think a mage and an assasin would make perfect sense.

Minsc: I'll have to bow down and agree with you, good to be proven wrong

With that said, lets agree that we're discussing the game here. The Baldur's Gate books (I thought) were terrible, and didn't give the picture I had of any of the characters (one of the worst characterizations was that of Tamoko, methinks) and there was waaaay to much combat, with Abdel being much too confident for a sheltered boy.

[Kulyok]

With that said, lets agree that we're discussing the game here. The Baldur's Gate books (I thought) were terrible, and didn't give the picture I had of any of the characters (one of the worst characterizations was that of Tamoko, methinks) and there was waaaay to much combat, with Abdel being much too confident for a sheltered boy.

Oh, yes. I recently read Athans' novelization in Russian, and it was "Oh - my - God. And I thought Elaine Cunningham was terrible." My favourite BG novelization so far is this: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2445316/1/ (the site itself is awful, I know, but I was able to find this jewel.)

You make a good point with Shar-Teel, I think. (Though if you make Shar-Teel a berserker dualled to thief , all enemies will be dead instantly. Power-wise, that's the strongest combination in BG1, in my opinion. )

With Faldorn and Montaron, we'll probably have to agree to disagree.

[CamDawg]

Unfortunately, no - only dual-class, and only the first class. So Tiax is doomed to remain a priest, not a Priest of Cyric.

But perhaps, Tutu Tweaks will amend that? Or Divine Remix? Hmmm...

Ooh. *scribbles in his notepad*

[Ashara]

I kited most of BG1 NPCs myself, but I'm not saying that it was based on anything but my personal subjective desires, both character related and game-balancing (because I play with non-standard parties):

Ajantis - Cavalier
Alora - swashbuckler
Branwen - priest (but will use DR's Battleguard once finished testing BG1NPC)
Coran - no change
Dynaheir - Invoquer
Edwin - Conjurer
Eldoth - a Jester (but see him as a perfect fit with Charlatain Kit)
Faldorn - Totemic Druid
Garrick - Scald
Imoen - plain Thief
Jaheira - no change
Kagain - beserker
Khalid - will use Fighter-Mage (hey, why else why I did it?)
Kivan - archer
Minsc - no change
Montaron - will use Assassin tweak
Safana - assassin
Skie - bounty hunter
Shar-Teel - beserker
Tiax - no change (but would like to see Priest of Cyric tweak)
Quayle - no change, but a Sorcerer would be nice
Viconia - will use Nightcloak
Xzar - no change
Xan - Sorcerer
Yeslick - no change

[NiGHTMARE]

I find Song and Silence's burglar kit to be a good fit for Alora, and Divine Remix's new bowslinger kit (even more skilled with ranged weapons than the archer, but even less talented with melee weapons) to be a good fit for Kivan .

[Ashara]

I see Kivan as the bow-and-spear warrior: spear of Gil'Galad and all that... good for hunting too. Bow, spear and dagger are my choices for his 'stars', the top count in the bow, and one dot in the spear and dagger each. While he gets his dual-wield as the ranger bonus I prefer to ignore it. One of his original in-game stars was the large sword, but I do think that a hunting, rather than martial weapon is a better choice for him. I don't like the halberd 'star' from TUTU for him to be honest.

That's said, I do like the steeped in tradition long swords 'stars' on the elves, because it is tough not to like a look of an agile guy fighting with a long sword, but I'd rather see it on a classical Bladesinger. Heh, my latest fan-fiction elven character is a Bladesinger with a flamberger bastard sword...

[Bursk]

Thank you, Ashara and NiGHTMARE (as well as everyone else who's contributed to the thread).

I do have some more questions:

How do I apply mod-added kits to NPCs e.g. make Alora a Burglar or Kivan a Bowslinger?  I thought that kits were only for the PC, unless they are specifically added to an NPC by a mod e.g. Battleguard for Branwen and Nightcloak for Viconia.

What class is Kivan in the Kivan of Shilmista mod?  My guess is Archer.  Ashara, is there any chance you could create an optional 'Bowslinger Kivan' component (with credit kiven to DR for the kit idea) for your mod?  This would offer players more choice, similar to what you did for Deheriana's class, without (IMO) deviating too far from who Kivan is as a person.  You could even change the kit slightly from the one in DR from 'Can only become proficient with long swords, short swords and daggers' to 'Can only become proficient with spears, long swords and daggers'.  This optional component is something I'd love to see, if it doesn't create too much work for you.

[Ashara]

I am not big on kits, but I think you can change a kit with NI easily enough, though sometimes when you do it with NI there are leftovers of the old kit there and stuff; BG1 has only 4 or so CRE for each character so it should not be too bad. Ideally, it is handled by the mod that creates a CRE with a kit for you to use to start with. So, it's a look Cam's way.

Yes, Kivan is an Archer in KoS, and I think I'd rather not mess with adding a custom kit for him, since for me, archer is spot-on, and if Kivan is any better with a bow, I am afraid that he'd depopulate Amn. I understand that he's to be an epic hero by ToB, but it's PC who harbors godhood ambitions, and there ar to be one Shevarash among Seldarine and on the whole of Faerun. 

[Bursk]

I am not big on kits, but I think you can change a kit with NI easily enough, though sometimes when you do it with NI there are leftovers of the old kit there and stuff; BG1 has only 4 or so CRE for each character so it should not be too bad. Ideally, it is handled by the mod that creates a CRE with a kit for you to use to start with. So, it's a look Cam's way.

Yes, Kivan is an Archer in KoS, and I think I'd rather not mess with adding a custom kit for him, since for me, archer is spot-on, and if Kivan is any better with a bow, I am afraid that he'd depopulate Amn. I understand that he's to be an epic hero by ToB, but it's PC who harbors godhood ambitions, and there ar to be one Shevarash among Seldarine and on the whole of Faerun. 

So, if I want Alora to be a burglar, I should probably ask the Song and Silence authors if they'd create a Tutu-only 'Make Alora a Burglar' component (I imagine they'd need to increase her default Find Traps, Hide In Shadows, Move Silently and Open Locks abilities and decrease her default Pick Pockets and Set Traps abilities)?  I suppose that's worth a try.  I do agree with the idea that this kit is more appropriate for her than the Swashbuckler.

I understand your decision not to add an alternate kit for Kivan.

[Grunker]

With that said, lets agree that we're discussing the game here. The Baldur's Gate books (I thought) were terrible, and didn't give the picture I had of any of the characters (one of the worst characterizations was that of Tamoko, methinks) and there was waaaay to much combat, with Abdel being much too confident for a sheltered boy.

Oh, yes. I recently read Athans' novelization in Russian, and it was "Oh - my - God. And I thought Elaine Cunningham was terrible." My favourite BG novelization so far is this: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2445316/1/ (the site itself is awful, I know, but I was able to find this jewel.)

You make a good point with Shar-Teel, I think. (Though if you make Shar-Teel a berserker dualled to thief , all enemies will be dead instantly. Power-wise, that's the strongest combination in BG1, in my opinion. )

With Faldorn and Montaron, we'll probably have to agree to disagree.

Right

I'll have to read that novel some time.

[CamDawg]

I don't see any reason why we can't add a Bowslinger Kivan component to the next DR. I won't speak on Andy's behalf, but I'd bet we can pressgang him into a Burglar Alora component as well.