Author Topic: Pre-emptive condolences on the upcoming destruction of New Orleans.  (Read 20300 times)

Offline CORVIS TERRIBLE MOUNTAIN GOD

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I think OES fucked up, and badly. Those models were showing a bullseye as of late Friday/early Sat. The scenarios for what can happen to New Orleans are well-known. Hanging around and waiting for the thing to reach Cat 5, which it did with terrifying speed, was just short-sited. Everyone in the OES there knew they couldn't get people out quick enough, and they still didn't call the evacuation order until late Saturday night. If you've got the head of your OES talking about filling FORTY-FOUR FUCKING THOUSAND body bags, you don't sit there and go, "Well, if this thing doesn't become a Cat 5, we ain't doing shit," you get on the goddamn TV and start screaming "GET THE FUCK OUT! NOW NOW NOW! GET OUT! GET OUT!"

(http://www.wunderground.com/education/steveg_blog/stormswathk8.gif)

The Superdome was not built to withstand winds of this speed.

(http://www.wunderground.com/education/steveg_blog/stormsurgek3.gif)

High tide is due 8:00 AM on Monday.

Offline fcm

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Re: Pre-emptive condolences on the upcoming destruction of New Orleans.
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2005, 06:39:14 AM »
Well, it's 7:30 EST -- and thank God the storm has gone down to cat 4 and moved east. It's not much of an improvement -- but it is an improvement. Watching this on the news is frightening. What's even worse is that this storm is going to spawn tornadoes everywhere. Apparently officials say that about 80% of New Orleans has been evacuated, and I can't imagine what it's like to be displaced indefinitely like that, and then come back to have everything destroyed. They had an interview of a woman who is staying on a fishing boat during the storm. *sigh*

It's a stupid thing to say, but my parents in Indiana are going to get so much rain/thunderstorms. That area is extremely prone to flooding.
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Offline Eral

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Re: Pre-emptive condolences on the upcoming destruction of New Orleans.
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2005, 08:39:25 PM »
The newspaper here is reporting that most of the people who stayed were too sick or too poor to arrange transport out. One man was quoted, "I could have stayed home and watched my roof blow off. Instead I've come here and watched the SuperDome roof blow off." (The storm punched two holes in the roof.) He then finished with a very philosophical shrug, that getting wet was not like dying.
All of the people who spoke to journalists were very calm. This may be because the journalists didn't go near the people wailing, "We're gonna die! We're gonna die!"
It's kind of APPALLING that evacuation wasn't organised sooner, given that such massive assistance will be needed. The reporting suggests people are sleeping on the floor. I'm hoping they are just neglecting to mention the mattresses. People couldn't be herded into the stadium without being supplied bedding, could they? Could they?
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Offline NiGHTMARE

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Re: Pre-emptive condolences on the upcoming destruction of New Orleans.
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2005, 09:06:26 PM »
Since none of the British/European news stations seemed to give a crap about the hurricane, I decided to tune into Fox News for a bit.  To my amazement, at one point their beach camera showed a couple of utter retards who had decided this was the perfect time to go *surfboarding*  ::) .
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Offline fcm

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Re: Pre-emptive condolences on the upcoming destruction of New Orleans.
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2005, 09:50:42 PM »
New Orleans is the most dangerous city in Ameirca. I wonder what happens to it after a catastrophy like this?
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Offline Operadragon

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Re: Pre-emptive condolences on the upcoming destruction of New Orleans.
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2005, 02:46:34 AM »
Eral, the *real* emergency experts are not brought in until a state of emergency is declared. Until then, the local (mostly incompetent) government is responsible for making decisions like that.

Go ahead and be appalled. Everyone else is. But nobody is also surprised that this thing finally happened. The real appaling thing is that nobody properly prepares for these things. They'd rather let it happen and then wait for the federal $$ to come pouring in, along with guys like my father who get called in on the cleanup detail. It's as if City/State improvements can't get passed in places like this, and they simply wait for disasters to happen and they get the improvements as part of the rebuilding process. It's sad.

There are two places in the lower 48 states that are lower than Sea Level. Death Valley in California, and New Orleans.

If not now, sometime soon. It was only a matter of time.

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Offline Resonance

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Re: Pre-emptive condolences on the upcoming destruction of New Orleans.
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2005, 02:56:22 AM »
New Orleans is the most dangerous city in Ameirca. I wonder what happens to it after a catastrophy like this?

I can't imagine it will become anything like a ghosttown over 'minor issues' like that, in this sensationhungry day and age (not that I really know of an age that wasn't), if that's what you are implying , fcm.

More probable is that it'll now attract unheard of multitudes of tourists, causing a respectable number of new people to settle there to profit from the increased tourism. They, in turn, will still want to pay for dentists, hairdressers, telephone sanitarians etc. etc. etc.

"Last chance to see..." and all that.

[edit: explanatory quote added]
« Last Edit: August 30, 2005, 02:58:29 AM by Resonance »

Offline fcm

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Re: Pre-emptive condolences on the upcoming destruction of New Orleans.
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2005, 10:57:50 AM »
New Orleans is the most dangerous city in Ameirca. I wonder what happens to it after a catastrophy like this?

I can't imagine it will become anything like a ghosttown over 'minor issues' like that, in this sensationhungry day and age (not that I really know of an age that wasn't), if that's what you are implying , fcm.

More probable is that it'll now attract unheard of multitudes of tourists, causing a respectable number of new people to settle there to profit from the increased tourism. They, in turn, will still want to pay for dentists, hairdressers, telephone sanitarians etc. etc. etc.

"Last chance to see..." and all that.

[edit: explanatory quote added]

What I'm concerned about is the looting, theft, and violence. I've already heard reports of looting just moments ago, actually.
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Offline discharger12

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Re: Pre-emptive condolences on the upcoming destruction of New Orleans.
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2005, 11:30:16 AM »
I recall hearing that the police have been replaced by army forces, and that if anyone is caught after curfew, they are thrown in jail immediately.

Did anyone else hear about that?

Offline Resonance

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Re: Pre-emptive condolences on the upcoming destruction of New Orleans.
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2005, 12:26:49 PM »
What I'm concerned about is the looting, theft, and violence. I've already heard reports of looting just moments ago, actually.

Ok, yes, that seems far more likely.

Don't know about the violence just now, though. I imagine the looting part will be too easy these days to provoce much violence. On the part of the looters, at least.
But the army may well have to turn to heavyhanded means to restore a sense of order, as chaotic as everything looks down there. That in turn may of course invoke a renewed sense of desperate urgency on those determined to make this the criminal scoop of the year.

So all in all: looting, theft and violence?
Probably so, yes.

Offline Eral

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Re: Pre-emptive condolences on the upcoming destruction of New Orleans.
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2005, 02:26:19 AM »
I guess if I was so desperately poor that I couldn't afford to evacuate from a hurricane, I might decide to increase my revenue too, if the opportunity arose.
Still, I wonder if looting is a basic human instinct -"Look! Free stuff!" Is it only poor people, or do nice middle-class/wealthy people loot too?
 
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Offline Jyzabyl

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Re: Pre-emptive condolences on the upcoming destruction of New Orleans.
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2005, 02:36:01 AM »
Judging by the people helping themselves to Donations in the Charity Bins near my house, nice middle-class people are looters too.
But I have a left shoulder-blade that is a miracle of loveliness.  People come miles to see it.

Offline Cheeky Girl

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Re: Pre-emptive condolences on the upcoming destruction of New Orleans.
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2005, 02:58:20 AM »
I guess if I was so desperately poor that I couldn't afford to evacuate from a hurricane, I might decide to increase my revenue too, if the opportunity arose.
Still, I wonder if looting is a basic human instinct -"Look! Free stuff!" Is it only poor people, or do nice middle-class/wealthy people loot too?
 
You'd be surprised.  I was in Los Angeles when the '92 riots happened. A man that had just won the lottery was spotted with his family looting a local business.  IIRC, this loser didn't get to keep the prize because of his criminal tendencies.  I was only 12 at the time, but this is one of the things I'll never forget.
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Offline fcm

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Re: Pre-emptive condolences on the upcoming destruction of New Orleans.
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2005, 05:49:04 AM »
What I'm concerned about is the looting, theft, and violence. I've already heard reports of looting just moments ago, actually.

Ok, yes, that seems far more likely.

Don't know about the violence just now, though. I imagine the looting part will be too easy these days to provoce much violence. On the part of the looters, at least.
But the army may well have to turn to heavyhanded means to restore a sense of order, as chaotic as everything looks down there. That in turn may of course invoke a renewed sense of desperate urgency on those determined to make this the criminal scoop of the year.

So all in all: looting, theft and violence?
Probably so, yes.

*sigh* A looter shot a policeman in the head today, or yesterday. The policeman is supposed to recover fully, but people are looting brazenly, right in front of the police and military. They keep saying "survival" and whatnot, but people are stealing house slippers and televisions. I don't know what possible use house slippers and televisions have.

Oh, New Orleans . . . I'm so glad I decided to go to Temple instead of Tulane.
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Offline Resonance

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Re: Pre-emptive condolences on the upcoming destruction of New Orleans.
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2005, 07:02:51 AM »
...people are looting brazenly, right in front of the police and military. They keep saying "survival" and whatnot, but people are stealing house slippers and televisions. I don't know what possible use house slippers and televisions have.

Oh, New Orleans . . . I'm so glad I decided to go to Temple instead of Tulane.

Wow. House slippers, huh?
Sometimes you just have to throw your hands in the air; exclaiming "people are weird".

If I was to speculate (as I'm prone to do) about what might motivate people to such sheer, stubborn stupidity as described above, I suppose the very simple answer would be the biblical terms of 'lust' and 'greed'.
In itself, that doesn't really explain anything, though. According to the more elaborate Freudian psychoanalysts approach, all human behavior and inhibition stems from the ego struggling to gain control of its own life, confronted with impulses under the generalized headings of sexdrive and deathdrive.

What might be of relevance here is the almost sensual way that the mind takes to (new or old) ideas of how to gain further control their lives (as exemplified by my own proneness to analytic speculation).
Ironically, it is driven to do so by the same impulses and present ordering structures made to deal with those impulses (as the 'ego' stems from, and is part of the 'id', really, according to Freud.) This could be compared to the way a coral reef grows; on the carcasses of life gone before, if you then ascribe an architechtural ambition to the organisms doing so... The point is, that once your mind starts to go down a certain 'path' or way of thinking, it is harder to turn back than you might imagine. (Sometimes, the only way to regain 'control' is by a gradual reinterpretation of your own life, actually based on rhetorical principles of euphemisms and vilification, until you've managed to make heartfelt and behavioral truth of what used to be somewhat superficial rhetorics.)

What I'm suggesting is that the winner of the lottery turning crook might plausibly have done so, because the real situation of having won the lottery turns out to be a lot more complex, and less satisfying, than it was in fact built up to be. He expected to be able to do... whatever... without a care in the world; but suddenly finds that there are in fact certain limits to what he might do with the sum he's won. What's worse, his lowdown familiy is eyeing his winnings with obvious envy. In the end, he finds himself on the streets, perhaps even leading the looting, in effort to somehow sate their hunger, and in turn be able to retire in peace to his own little slice of paradise.

In similar fashion, when poor people (or people who can't help but regard themselves as impoverished, which is pretty much the same thing) get the idea that they are missing out on a way to bring themselves into a land of luxury (a fantasy that they already have huge ordering structures devoted to), that idea can pretty much have the power to shut down their ability to think, and to make rational decisions. Not absolutely, of course.
Just enough to make them lose their footing, and start shooting at the police, standing between them, and the break they always wanted.

Offline fcm

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Re: Pre-emptive condolences on the upcoming destruction of New Orleans.
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2005, 12:13:04 PM »
Ugh. Freud.
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Offline Veloxyll

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Re: Pre-emptive condolences on the upcoming destruction of New Orleans.
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2005, 12:42:43 PM »
I'm just going to mention Freud isn't scienctifically provable to be right. that doesn't mean he isn't. Just there's no way to prove it.

As for the rest, yeah, I heard about the police man getting shot. I was somewhat wth?! when I read "He's been shot in the head, but expected to make a full recovery.
Looting though. Yeah, food is, ya know, survival. Even clothes. But uh. A television isn't going to help you survive. Or any other material valuables. Filthy looter scum
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Offline fcm

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Re: Pre-emptive condolences on the upcoming destruction of New Orleans.
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2005, 02:10:05 PM »
They fill their trucks up with TV's and stereos and computers, house slippers, microwaves . . . etc -- and where are they going with all of these material goods? What possible use do they have to anyone? There's no electricity, and they have no homes in which to store them. It's absolutely deplorable. And yet here these people are, as the levys are giving way and the once fair city of New Orleans is about to be inundated with an additional 8 or so feet of water, looting the downtown Wal-Mart, wasting the police and the military's time. They could be out saving lives, but instead they have to guard the shops and get shot in the head by greedy lawless bastards.

Some people are just so freaking antisocal and unscrupulous it hurts. How can you claim to be civilized if you can't even curb your incessant greed during an emergency in which the things you're filching have absolutely no utility whatsoever? What kind of socieity can survive when it's people are that ill-behaved? God, sometimes I just get so upset about these kinds of things. It's not right to take complete advantage of a situation just because you're capable of doing so.


Oh, but there was this one man who had lost his wife, and he was just so sad and crying, and it made me cry because I'm such an incredible wuss. His pain must be unfathomable. I would fall apart if I lost a loved one in that way. He said that he just couldn't hold on to her any longer, and that she said to let go and to take care of the children. So sad. I hope she's still alive and that they find her somewhere.
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Offline SimDing0™

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Re: Pre-emptive condolences on the upcoming destruction of New Orleans.
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2005, 02:11:26 PM »
I wonder why they don't shoot the looters. It'd save time.

Offline fcm

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Re: Pre-emptive condolences on the upcoming destruction of New Orleans.
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2005, 02:14:37 PM »
I wonder why they don't shoot the looters. It'd save time.

They don't have the manpower to do that sort of thing. Besides, I'm rooting for irony while I shake my "Better Than Thou" finger all over the place. Hopefully I'm not the only one who's reminded of certain Spaniards and certain rivers . . .
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Offline SimDing0™

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Re: Pre-emptive condolences on the upcoming destruction of New Orleans.
« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2005, 02:32:57 PM »
They might have the manpower if they withdrew from Iraq.

Offline NiGHTMARE

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Re: Pre-emptive condolences on the upcoming destruction of New Orleans.
« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2005, 03:29:41 PM »
I agree with your political assertion, Sim, but it actually wouldn't have made any difference;  it was the national guard who were patrolling the streets, not the regular army :).  Plus if they were really short on manpower, they could have always called in the reserves...
« Last Edit: August 31, 2005, 03:35:31 PM by NiGHTMARE »
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Offline jcompton

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Re: Pre-emptive condolences on the upcoming destruction of New Orleans.
« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2005, 03:35:14 PM »
Many of the troops on active Mission Accomplished duty are, in fact, members of the National Guard (and national military Reserve.)
« Last Edit: August 31, 2005, 03:36:57 PM by jcompton »
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Offline NiGHTMARE

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Re: Pre-emptive condolences on the upcoming destruction of New Orleans.
« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2005, 03:37:40 PM »
I know there were National Guardsmen present during the actual invasion, but I thought they were all recalled home some months ago?
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Offline jester

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Re: Pre-emptive condolences on the upcoming destruction of New Orleans.
« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2005, 03:46:26 PM »
That is what they and their families thought too, but it appears they have been lied to or to use a more recent phrase they have been given 'accurate information to the best knowledge the administration had at that time'.

I read that about 2/3 of the fighing force are deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan and they could not attack Iran, if they wanted to, but then again it is right next door. Still I digress. I think the phrase national guard indicates that these guys should be at home looking after things.

I am just surprised that Pat Robertson hasn't aired his suspicions about Mardi Gras, the French connection and sinful lust in these parts in general and that god might have had a hand in all of this.
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