Author Topic: Viconia's Betrayal in the Underdark  (Read 19756 times)

Offline icelus

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Viconia's Betrayal in the Underdark
« on: April 09, 2004, 10:39:50 AM »
This is yet another sketchily-detailed quest hinted at by David Gaider.

Here is what we know:

"Everyone knows that Viconia was designed, originally, to have more involvement in the Underdark part of the story. This was, indeed, the original plan...but that was back before we knew exactly how the Underdark was going to fit into the overall game. We ended up having so much other stuff for Viconia (like the romance) that it really didn't become necessary.

At any rate, Viconia's presence in the party was supposed to help and hinder when entering the dark elves' city. Once in the city, Viconia would disappear shortly afterwards...and the party would be approached within minutes and arrested as imposters. They would be transferred to a drow prison to await sacrifice to Lolth...where, a day later, Viconia would arrive and free the party. At first, she would claim to have recognized the party arriving and suspected what was going to happen, saying this was her first chance to rescue the player. The player could choose to see through this rather obvious lie, where Viconia would spit and say fine...she had hoped to re-ingratiate herself with Lolth and the drow by surrendering the Child of Bhaal to one of the lesser and more ambitious houses (the one that we later made part of the quest with Drizzt's foe, whatshisname). Viconia, however, has just heard of the long-ago fall of her own house and realized that she had no protection, no name...the Matron Mother would sacrifice her to Lolth, as well.

Viconia knows, however, that the Matron Mother of the minor House hasn't told anyone of the party's presence...she's kept it a secret. If she releases the party, she will direct them to kill the Matron Mother to preserve their secret and continue their mission. The party can tell her off afterwards, at which she will spit an epithet at them and find her way on her own...she always has. If they express any kind of understanding, she will be suspicious, but grateful (in her own way...Viconia has a hard time saying 'thank you').
If there was a romance underway, the whole thing might have worked out a bit differently. After releasing the party and confronting the Matron Mother, the Matron would express shock at Viconia's actions. She would say that she planned to restore Viconia's standing amongst the Drow and invite her into her own house...why throw that away? Viconia would say nothing and begin the attack.

Afterwards, however, the player could question Viconia about this. Viconia would be reluctant to speak, but would confess that the thought...the very possibility...of going back to the life she knew took her over, made her do something rash. She realizes, though, that she never enjoyed life amongst the drow...and now truly no longer belongs here. It is a realization that does not sit well with her. The player can turn her out here, as well.
(There was also some talk that Viconia would betray the party but not change her mind unless the romance was active...with the small number of NPC's, though, that didn't seem like a good idea)."

I'm guessing that this quest would take a bit of tinkering to tie it in to the Viconia Romance.

Questions? Comments? Ideas?

(The original thread can be obtained in .mht format here.)
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Offline Cybersquirt

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Re: Viconia's Betrayal in the Underdark
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2004, 11:17:30 AM »
comments?  Yes!  This is the one I wanna see..  ;D
questions: what is .mht format?
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Offline icelus

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Re: Viconia's Betrayal in the Underdark
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2004, 11:18:32 AM »
questions: what is .mht format?

.mht is a format that saves an entire webpage, images in all, in a single archive file.  I'm pretty sure you have to use Internet Explorer to view them.
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Offline Cybersquirt

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Re: Viconia's Betrayal in the Underdark
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2004, 11:21:34 AM »
good god that was fast.. I was just about to edit my post to say: never mind.  :D
(it even saves the spybot attached to the banner  :-\)
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Offline icelus

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Re: Viconia's Betrayal in the Underdark
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2004, 11:22:45 AM »
Yeah, sorry about that.  It does save *everything* :(
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Offline Barren

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Re: Viconia's Betrayal in the Underdark
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2004, 11:26:19 AM »
How do you save stuff to mht format?
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Offline icelus

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Re: Viconia's Betrayal in the Underdark
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2004, 11:48:16 AM »
In internet explorer, go to File--Save As.  When the save window come up, change the Save As Type to "Web Archive, single file (*.mht)"
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Offline Cybersquirt

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Re: Viconia's Betrayal in the Underdark
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2004, 05:25:49 AM »
so, per a discussion on another board:  how do you lore folk think Shar & Lolth would react to Viconia playing around?

We know Lolth doesn't take loosing sacrifices lightly; what would Shar think about loosing one of her faithful?

..or, should the deities not be given too much scrutiny/consideration?
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Offline jester

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Re: Viconia's Betrayal in the Underdark
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2004, 05:18:35 PM »
*summons Nightmare* He will know. :)
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Offline Kish

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Re: Viconia's Betrayal in the Underdark
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2004, 05:20:42 PM »
I don't think Viconia's thinking in terms of "I'd have to go back to being a cleric of Lolth if they took me back," and since her betrayal of the PC won't progress to the point where she'd also need to think about her loyalty to Shar, you're probably best off treating it as a nonissue.
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Offline NiGHTMARE

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Re: Viconia's Betrayal in the Underdark
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2004, 05:38:27 PM »
We know Lolth doesn't take loosing sacrifices lightly; what would Shar think about loosing one of her faithful?
Given that Shar has loss in her portfolio, it's quite difficult to tell :).

However, I don't think Viconia seeking Lolth's forgiveness would neccessarily be cause for Shar to disown her anyway, especially as in this case it involves betraying her companions, something which I'm sure would please Shar immensely.
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Offline Cybersquirt

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Re: Viconia's Betrayal in the Underdark
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2004, 07:05:12 PM »
^Have you been following the Viconia romance thread?  If so, I take it you would disagree with Zandilar's opinion?
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Re: Viconia's Betrayal in the Underdark
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2004, 07:53:07 PM »
Heya,

We know Lolth doesn't take loosing sacrifices lightly; what would Shar think about loosing one of her faithful?
Given that Shar has loss in her portfolio, it's quite difficult to tell :).

However, I don't think Viconia seeking Lolth's forgiveness would neccessarily be cause for Shar to disown her anyway, especially as in this case it involves betraying her companions, something which I'm sure would please Shar immensely.

Unless Lolth accepted her back. Then there'd be hell to pay, excuse the phrase.

I have always had a HUGE problem with the way Bioware (and other companies who have made games under the TSR or WotC DnD FR licence) treat the Deities of the Forgotten Realms... They seem to get brushed under the carpet, or treated as completely stupid or ineffectual (see what happened to Helm's Hold in NWN, and how Helm (didn't) deal with it)...

Gods are not raincoats that you can take off and put on at will either. Lolth probably wouldn't have Viconia back anyway (I mean, she sends a Yochlol after her, then eventually a priestess or other agent kills her in the Romanced ending)... and Shar! Shar is a bitch. She'd go "Fine, you betrayed your friends, I like that... But you also betrayed me..." If She were in a forgiving mood, Viconia would have to atone* before Shar returned her powers. If Shar wasn't in a forgiving mood, or if she didn't think Viconia was all that important to Her, I could easily see Her never returning Viconia's powers, and probably sending agents after her - much as Lolth did.

* Atoning is not as easy as saying "Shar, please forgive me, I will be faithful again"... Shar would make sure Viconia would have some long and dangerous quest to complete without her powers...

Anyway, I think that sums up my problems with the quest. :P

Zandilar.

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Re: Viconia's Betrayal in the Underdark
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2004, 07:56:35 PM »
Heya,

We know Lolth doesn't take loosing sacrifices lightly; what would Shar think about loosing one of her faithful?
Given that Shar has loss in her portfolio, it's quite difficult to tell :).

However, I don't think Viconia seeking Lolth's forgiveness would neccessarily be cause for Shar to disown her anyway, especially as in this case it involves betraying her companions, something which I'm sure would please Shar immensely.

Unless Lolth accepted her back. Then there'd be hell to pay, excuse the phrase.

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Viconia interaction with underdark house De Vir prisoners...
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2004, 10:24:14 AM »
Ok... I don't know if the "Viconia betrayal in the underdark" is meant to handle that... but come on! This is one of the most obvious and annoying hanging threads in SoA, and it wouldn't take coding/quest/NPC's to fix it... simply:

V - Yo, Doug. What's up?

D - You know... hanging around, getting pieces flayed off. Thought you dropped dead.

V - Nope. Need rescuing?

D - Nope. I'm all stoic and shit. Take it to da Man once you're done with your quest though.

Drow Priestess - Hey! Visiting hour was over 5 minutes ago!

DP - Casts - Plot Death on Doug

D - The boy... teach him...

D - Death

V - Well, that sucked. ...  Let's move on.

Offline Barren

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Re: Viconia interaction with underdark house De Vir prisoners...
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2004, 07:50:16 PM »
It's a loose end indeed, but the primary focus of this mod is to restore stuff that was cut at somepoint. Although Gaider did mention that Viccy was supposed to have interaction with them.
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Re: Viconia interaction with underdark house De Vir prisoners...
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2004, 01:07:01 PM »
Err... am I missing something?

It's a part of the game that was mistakenly cut, as confirmed by a designer, but it's not something UB should fix?  ???

Offline Barren

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Re: Viconia interaction with underdark house De Vir prisoners...
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2004, 02:42:13 PM »
I'm just saying that it has better chances to be restored if we can find some details regarding this dialog. Anyway, it's not my call in the end.
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Offline HiddenAssassin

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Re: Viconia's Betrayal in the Underdark
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2004, 01:23:26 AM »
You would have to give Viconia an excuse to disappear though. She wouldn't really have one as like she says they would want to kill her aswell.

I think her excuse would be something along the lines of some quiet revenge that the PC can offer to help her with but be turned down as it's personal.

Offline SixOfSpades

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Re: Viconia's Betrayal in the Underdark
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2004, 03:26:13 AM »
Hmmm.....I can't say that I'm all that familiar with Viconia as an NPC (seeing as Anomen's so much the better Cleric, even if you're running an Evil party it's more Evil to screw up Anomen's life than to save Viconia's), but I'm going through my assigned section of the DIALOG.TLK: I seem to have pretty much the entirety of Chapter 5, but so far there's been no Viconia lines whatsoever.

I have learned that Malafein DeVir was originally intended to commit suicide, though.

Offline Barren

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Re: Viconia's Betrayal in the Underdark
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2004, 11:55:56 PM »
Woah... I knew your research would prove to be an interesting piece!
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Offline Cybersquirt

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Re: Viconia's Betrayal in the Underdark
« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2004, 12:19:37 AM »
er.. who?  That strikes me as very unDrow like.  :-\
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Offline Sovran

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Re: Viconia's Betrayal in the Underdark
« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2004, 07:37:40 AM »
That would be one of the prisoners on the upper floor of the Ust Natha tavern, wouldn't it?

Quote
52824:
I... I cannot await the punishment.  Mother Lolth, I beg of you to forgive...

52825:
No!  Malafein!  No!!

Used in UDDROW13.DLG and UDRROW12.DLG. I remember seeing this in-game, but it might only trigger if you start dialogue with the prisoner (sure, smart way to act Drow.) (Or has this been tweaked already? I lost track of everything UB at some point, trying to catch up.  :-\)

Offline Cybersquirt

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Re: Viconia's Betrayal in the Underdark
« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2004, 04:12:25 PM »
Uh.. the act of suicide has always struck me as (to be perfectly honest) an act of cowardice.  Any self-respecting drow would kill the potential offender before they could commit the act - genocide would be the more likely scenario.  That, or begging Lolth only brings trouble.
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Offline cliffette

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Re: Viconia's Betrayal in the Underdark
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2004, 04:30:59 PM »
The key phrase there mgiht be 'self-respecting'. A drow contemplating suicide might have no more self-respect, nor clarity (hence the begging of Lolth).

 

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